The King in Black Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Something about this finale irritated me, and in the same way the season 1 finale irritated me. Such great seasons of tv and the final episode comes down with a bout of severe sexism. Lou telling Peggy "people died" as a way to shut her up would have been fine, great even, but not when coupled with his "men must protect their wimmen-folk" speech. It was as crappy as Gus getting all the credit after Molly had put in the work. It just puts a bad taste in the mouth.Still, lots of highlights. I felt so sorry for dear old Mike there are the end. That's unfair. I don't think the show wants to send that message, especially because Peggy i just like Jerry or Lester, and this 'The World is against me !' argument is something I could see them making. Lou wasn't dissing Peggy, or 'putting her in her place'. It was just that even after everything that happened, Peggy couldn't look beyond her own self (as seen in the locker situation ; she had a compulsion to look at herself as some sort of protagonist in a movie in every situation ). The Lou speech wasn't about manly men protecting their women, but limits to which people go for their families. Peggy's problems weren't that she wanted to be something more, or wanting to be something more itself. It was that she was completely deluded by the desire to be actualized or realized or whatever, to such an extent that she didn't care about reality anymore in favor of this something great she was convinced was going to happen to her. In that manner, she is a typical Fargo character ; this obstinacy on her part to not accept her blame in things that have happened connect her to Jerry and Lester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yeah as much as I'd love to see the season one cast again this was probably the way to go. I can't help but wonder who will end up appearing. Milligan? He'd be like sixty. Same with Peggy, who would probably be out of jail long before 2010. In the article it mentions that none of the major players are back from season 1 but hints strongly that other non majors will be.I could see Wrench making a return given that the character is now in both seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 That's unfair. I don't think the show wants to send that message, especially because Peggy i just like Jerry or Lester, and this 'The World is against me !' argument is something I could see them making. Lou wasn't dissing Peggy, or 'putting her in her place'. It was just that even after everything that happened, Peggy couldn't look beyond her own self (as seen in the locker situation ; she had a compulsion to look at herself as some sort of protagonist in a movie in every situation ). The Lou speech wasn't about manly men protecting their women, but limits to which people go for their families. Peggy's problems weren't that she wanted to be something more, or wanting to be something more itself. It was that she was completely deluded by the desire to be actualized or realized or whatever, to such an extent that she didn't care about reality anymore in favor of this something great she was convinced was going to happen to her. In that manner, she is a typical Fargo character ; this obstinacy on her part to not accept her blame in things that have happened connect her to Jerry and Lester. Well, no, Lou's speech was definitely about men protecting their women and by extension their family. Then he goes home to his wife who makes him dinner and serves him coffee. It's irritating to me, especially after season one's ending and the treatment of Molly.I don't disagree with you about Peggy or anything like that. Everything you wrote about Peggy is the obvious conclusion viewers will have drawn about midway in the season. I don't even think there is anything problematic about Lou's speech on it's own. The problem is that when put in the same scene, it comes off as very much just getting Peggy to shut her mouth. It's no debate Fargo doesn't treat women well at all, though perhaps it's intentional. Peggy not being able to express herself until it's too late, maybe if she had access to Hank's emoji language none of the stuff after hitting Rye would have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I don't see what's wrong with getting Peggy to shut her mouth, she needed to shut her mouth. She was attempting to paint herself as a victim in this situation, in which her very poor and selfish decisions got an inordinately large amount of people killed. If Lou had shut her down at the beginning of the season, sure, but now? And it's not like he hammered it home, just a simple sentence of fact; people died, Peg. I forget the exact wording of his own speech, so I won't comment on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leofric Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Wasn't he supposed to be mixed though? Dodd was always calling him "half breed."Someone on another site mentioned that the guy from Buffalo said to Mike Milligan "Remind me which one you are again? The kid Otto had with the maid?"Which would imply Hanzee is Otto's illegitimate son with the cook that Mike did the act of kindness for.Hanzee's given name may actually be Hans, with Hanzee more of a nickname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Someone on another site mentioned that the guy from Buffalo said to Mike Milligan "Remind me which one you are again? The kid Otto had with the maid?"Which would imply Hanzee is Otto's illegitimate son with the cook that Mike did the act of kindness for.Hanzee's given name may actually be Hans, with Hanzee more of a nickname. Could be. Although there was a scene of Hanzee as a child in school at the age of 8 when Otto took him in off the street. If that was his mother I'm not sure why he would have been living on the street. Maybe Hanzee was Otto's bastard with a different woman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Someone on another site mentioned that the guy from Buffalo said to Mike Milligan "Remind me which one you are again? The kid Otto had with the maid?"Which would imply Hanzee is Otto's illegitimate son with the cook that Mike did the act of kindness for.Hanzee's given name may actually be Hans, with Hanzee more of a nickname. Hanzee is a nickname but of Ohanzee. His full name gets said by the narrator in episode 9: Ohanzee Dent.If it helps the argument though the actor is mixed race apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Was anybody else waiting for Hanzee to kill the guys picking on the deaf children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 From the baby name site SheKnows. The name apparently is Sioux.OhanzeeThe name Ohanzee is a baby boy name.MeaningNative American Meaning: The name Ohanzee is a Native American baby name. In Native American the meaning of the name Ohanzee is: Shadow.NumerologySoulUrge Number: 8People with this name have a deep inner desire to lead, organize, supervise, and to achieve status, power and wealth.Expression Number: 11People with this name tend to be idealistic, highly immaginative, intuitive, and spiritual. They seek after spiritual truth and often find it. They tend to be visionary and may inspire others. If they fail to develop their potential, they may become dreamers, or misuse power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I wonder if anyone on the writing team is a fan of American Gods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I was thinking of the possibility of the term "half-breed" being used not so literally, but more as an insult for a Native American that adopts white ways. It was rather prevalent at this time with the American Indian Movement. "Full-blood" was used to refer to Native Americans that remained traditional even if they were of mixed blood. Hanzee was always an outsider trapped between two cultures and the constant reference to him as "half-breed", whether literal or figurative was insulting and reinforced the notion he would always be an outsider. I think that is when he finally decided he was going to take everything for himself. I think the best evidence for Hanzee actually being of mixed blood would be Dod calling him a mongrel in the cabin, but Dod was an asshole. It's possible there was some truth to the Buffalo guy's joke of Otto having a child with the maid. Then again, I have no problem with Hanzee becoming Mr. Tripoli. It was his sense of isolation that resulted in his rampage and taking over of the Fargo "empire". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I really enjoyed the finale and, because I just started watching S1, I recognized the references/call-backs too. I was wondering why the climax/resolution finished so early in the episode, but I like how they drew out the epilogue. Why was it taken for granted that Peggy would go to prison? She killed Rye in a not-at-fault accident. She is definitely responsible for an unreported hit-and-run but her shock and subsequent psychological stress would be a pretty strong mitigating factor to perhaps get a suspended sentence or at least a very short one. Ed disposed of Rye's body, kidnapped Dodd and killed in self-defense. She killed in self-defense and assaulted Dodd in self-defense. I guess she's an accessory to kidnapping, but taking prisoner someone who tried to kill you could be portrayed as self defense. Her assault on the policeman and Hanzee are both reasonable actions to flee a life-threatening situation. In terms of all the violence that occurred, she was a victim. It wasn't her fault that anyone got killed. Am I forgetting something? I would be surprised if a DA even filed charges for the unreported hit & run after the Dakota police put her and Ed in a situation that got him killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 She was an accomplice to the entire thing, and there's no way to prove she didn't kill Rye in the hit and run. So at best, hit and run, assisting in Rye's murder, covering it up, lying to police, assaulting the cop, kidnap of Dodd, attempting to ransom Dodd.....even if she successfully palmed a lot of on the conveniently dead Ed, that's gotta equal jail time? And she may have been a victim of some crimes at some points, but categorically no way did she not get anyone killed. She hit Rye, and convinced Ed to murder him instead of telling the police. Which sparked the biggest gang war the area had seen in forever - OK, she's not accountable for the actions of all those people, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I really enjoyed the finale and, because I just started watching S1, I recognized the references/call-backs too. I was wondering why the climax/resolution finished so early in the episode, but I like how they drew out the epilogue. Why was it taken for granted that Peggy would go to prison? She killed Rye in a not-at-fault accident. She is definitely responsible for an unreported hit-and-run but her shock and subsequent psychological stress would be a pretty strong mitigating factor to perhaps get a suspended sentence or at least a very short one. Ed disposed of Rye's body, kidnapped Dodd and killed in self-defense. She killed in self-defense and assaulted Dodd in self-defense. I guess she's an accessory to kidnapping, but taking prisoner someone who tried to kill you could be portrayed as self defense. Her assault on the policeman and Hanzee are both reasonable actions to flee a life-threatening situation. In terms of all the violence that occurred, she was a victim. It wasn't her fault that anyone got killed. Am I forgetting something? I would be surprised if a DA even filed charges for the unreported hit & run after the Dakota police put her and Ed in a situation that got him killed.Yeah, I feel like with a decent lawyer she could get off with little to no jail time. The problem is proving all that stuff. A few episodes back one of the Fargo cops told her and Ed cooperation was their only chance of avoiding the electric chair and I was like "wait, what?" Karl Weathers really could have helped them out had he been there.and convinced Ed to murder him instead of telling the police.Wait, that's now how I remember it. Didn't Ed kill him in self defense / panic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 As far as Peggy and jail time... she is batshit crazy... hallucinations, delusions..... the minute she starts telling her story to her lawyer she is funny farm bound.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 As far as Peggy and jail time... she is batshit crazy... hallucinations, delusions..... the minute she starts telling her story to her lawyer she is funny farm bound....Haha, she basically asked Lou to get her a cell with a view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I don't see what's wrong with getting Peggy to shut her mouth, she needed to shut her mouth. She was attempting to paint herself as a victim in this situation, in which her very poor and selfish decisions got an inordinately large amount of people killed. If Lou had shut her down at the beginning of the season, sure, but now? And it's not like he hammered it home, just a simple sentence of fact; people died, Peg. I forget the exact wording of his own speech, so I won't comment on that.And this is why the scene is particularly irritating. Peggy is ignoring the fact that so many have died so Lou shutting her down by reminding her of this doesn't seem out of line, at least not on the surface. We all want to nod along and agree with Lou right there. But just because Lou is right doesn't mean that there aren't sexist overtones happening here. Peggy's experiences with being a woman aren't negated just because she's a mentally ill criminal who is unable to see the consequences of her actions. I suppose I'm looking at the season as a whole when critiquing the finale. The writers included a lot of unfavorable feminist commentary into this season. It may or may not be deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitac Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Plus there's the disposal of a body by meat grinder, Ed as main and Peggy as accessory. That's got to get you some time in jail. In California. With a view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 So now that they have some of the full versions up on youtube I hope to god they put out a sountrack album for this season. Man of Constant Sorrow by Blitzen Trapper and Run through the Jungle by Britt Daniel were particular standouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.