Maltaran

UK Politics Unexpected Election edition

401 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

This is my opinion too, I see May as a pragmatist above all, rather than some scheming opportunist. She might not have wanted Brexit but her job is to make the best of a bad job and try and get the best deal she can out of this for the UK. With that in mind I can't see much option but to vote for the Torys. With a more stable powerbase under her she would be less likely to have to pander to the nutjobs in her party pushing for extreme Brexit at all costs. 

I'm astonished by the massive push amongst my friends to vote for Lib Dems in order to reverse Brexit. Honestly its not going to happen, we need to close the barn door because the horse has bolted. 

There is about 20% of the electorate that is utterly opposed to Brexit, and would try to reverse it (and that percentage is far higher in Inner London, and the Stockbroker Belt).  It makes sense for the Lib Dems, who won 8% last time, to try and corner that market.

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6 minutes ago, SeanF said:

There is about 20% of the electorate that is utterly opposed to Brexit, and would try to reverse it (and that percentage is far higher in Inner London, and the Stockbroker Belt).  It makes sense for the Lib Dems, who won 8% last time, to try and corner that market.

Of course, can't blame the Lib Dems, gives them a sudden reason to exist.. something that maybe wasn't true a few months ago when they seemed utterly irrelevant. I think what we need for the Brexit negotiations is a strong, unified position, the last thing we need is a bunch of infighting and disagreement. If that means having to unfortunately give the Torys a big majority then fair enough. 

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12 hours ago, Hereward said:

That too is a simplification. Corbyn's base is, UNITE leadership notwithstanding, not the old unions. The old union vote was the right-wing of the party, not Blairites, but left-wing economically and very, very socially conservative. They hated the Bennites, whose supporters were mainly metropolitan middle class. 

I was extremely angry with the defence cuts that Cameron introduced, as were many Tory MPs, but there is a significant difference between not full funding the armed forces, and being opposed to their very existence. There is also a difference between statesman-like comments in the wake of a peace agreement, and being of the opinion that you would have preferred the IRA to win.

I'm certainly hearing that Corbyn's views on violent Irish Republicanism are very much a live issue in the West Midlands, an area which is full of marginal seats.

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Is Michael Gove standing for a reelection? Does he have a chance?

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5 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Of course, can't blame the Lib Dems, gives them a sudden reason to exist.. something that maybe wasn't true a few months ago when they seemed utterly irrelevant. I think what we need for the Brexit negotiations is a strong, unified position, the last thing we need is a bunch of infighting and disagreement. If that means having to unfortunately give the Torys a big majority then fair enough. 

The problem with that is that a strong, unified position is almost impossible when the result was reached by a small margin. This can also be detrimental when you're unified in the strong decision to drive off the cliff (or at least threaten the livelihood of 20% of voters); criticism and alternative positions are not a bad thing. Lastly, it's far from guaranteed that debate will be more unified after the election.

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18 minutes ago, theguyfromtheVale said:

The problem with that is that a strong, unified position is almost impossible when the result was reached by a small margin. This can also be detrimental when you're unified in the strong decision to drive off the cliff (or at least threaten the livelihood of 20% of voters); criticism and alternative positions are not a bad thing. Lastly, it's far from guaranteed that debate will be more unified after the election.

I'd say May would be more likely to take a more pragmatic, less self destructive position if she were more secure in her job, it seems she has to pander to euro sceptics in her own party and seems to jump about in her views. 

Brexit is going to be bad for some people, think we all accept that, but going in with a weak hand to a negotiating table with the EU knowing you are under pressure isn't a good start.

We have to try and make the best of it now, unfortunately that means 4 more years of Tory rule.

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1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I'd say May would be more likely to take a more pragmatic, less self destructive position if she were more secure in her job, it seems she has to pander to euro sceptics in her own party and seems to jump about in her views. 

Brexit is going to be bad for some people, think we all accept that, but going in with a weak hand to a negotiating table with the EU knowing you are under pressure isn't a good start.

We have to try and make the best of it now, unfortunately that means 4 more years of Tory rule.

And praying like hell that we still have a functioning NHS, national rail service and school system at the end of it. The odds are not good.

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13 minutes ago, Werthead said:

And praying like hell that we still have a functioning NHS, national rail service and school system at the end of it. The odds are not good.

We barely have those now

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7 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

We barely have those now

I have to ask, so your argument is, it doesn't matter since they are properly dismantled by now anyway?

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So the Labour Party political broadcast was rubbish. Anything which features kids asking questions to make a point does my head in. 

This isn't go to go well.

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3 hours ago, kiko said:

Is Michael Gove standing for a reelection? Does he have a chance?

He's MP for Surrey Heath. In the last election the Tories took 60% of the vote there and the runner up was UKIP! It would be a miracle if he lost his seat.

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20 minutes ago, Notone said:

I have to ask, so your argument is, it doesn't matter since they are properly dismantled by now anyway?

Well my argument is primarily that Brexit is the most important focus for Britain, we need to get that right for it to not completely destroy us. The above issues will all get worse if we do Brexit badly.

But having said that, the NHS has been failing for decades, the school system hasn't been fantastic for decades ( trains id argue have actually improved since privatisation), and successive governments haven't been able to fix those problems. I'm not saying 'give up', but none of the other parties have any firm workable policies on how to fix these things outside of more tax to throw more money at the problem. Which won't work

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Ok, thanks for the clarification.

Anyway... So that I am not just hitting down Corbyn's non-existent leadership of Labour.

Quote

Brexit cheerleader Kate Hoey has faced down unrest in her local party after they backed her reselection to stand inVauxhall. 

The Labour Leave chair sparked controversy for campaigning alongside ex-UKIP leader Nigel Farage on his Thames flotilla during the referendum.

Despite the Vauxhall Labour Party publicly disassociating themselves from her over Brexit and rumours she would be deselected, members have rallied around her so she can fight her eighth election. 

A statement released by the branch to the Evening Standard said they had agreed to “work collaboratively” with 70-year-old Ms Hoey, who has held the seat since 1989.

Labour strong-hold Vauxhall voted 77 percent in favour of Remain at the EU referendum.

Her main challenge comes from the Lib Dems who today announced they are targeting her 12,708 majority and will make it one of their key General Election battlegrounds.

A senior Lib Dem campaign source said: “We just can’t believe Labour has been dumb enough to re-select someone who makes Nigel Farage look like a cuddly pro-European. It’s game on in Vauxhall.” 

Ms Hoey shrugged off the party’s provocation. She said: “It’s fine. Why wouldn’t they? They’ve got a history of targeting seats.” 

The Lib Dems claim their membership in local branch Wandsworth and Vauxhall has doubled since the EU referendum and 2000 people have joined the party since Tuesday. 

Membership is said to be up 12 percent in Kingston & Surbiton, 15 percent in Twickenham and up 17 percent in Bermondsey & Old Southwark, which will form the centre of the party’s plans for a revival.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexitbacker-kate-hoey-faces-down-unrest-to-stand-in-vauxhall-a3520111.html

I so much hope LibDems pull that one off. I know Vauxhall is tall order for them. But it would be really gratifying. And the picture of her and Farrage would make really neat election posters for LibDems there.

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One from the Twitter mines, on the Scottish council elections:

So that's abolishing golf, more horse-riding, women to stay home, free bus passes to go, the introduction of the guillotine and plastic bags banned. I'm trying to imagine a voter who read that lot and thought 'yes, that's the kind of fresh thinking we need! Can councils actually guillotine people?'

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2 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

That can't be real.

Apparently it's originally from a local Glasgow paper. She is quoted as saying she had been 'advised to stay quiet'.

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"People are becoming far too old". So selfish of them, choosing to age like that just so they can get a free bus pass. There'll be none of that happening when Ms Allen is elected! :laugh:

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Dude, have UKIP abducted that one from speaker's corner in Hyde Park. I hope she got to keep her soapbox?

Let's try to turn this stream of consciousness into concrete political proposals.

No more free busses, or busses in general. In order to promote equestrian prowes of Scots, bus stops shall be replaced by horse stables. Who gets to old for horses, guillotine. Women not staying at home, or wearing shoes in their kitchen, guillotine. Playing golf, guillotine. In order to make that happen, we need to convert golf courses into public gardens, you guessed it, for the guillotines.

As much as it pains to say, she kinda has point with the plastic bags. She didn't get it entirely right, but given the rest of her nonsense, it was close enough.

Oh, and for the more likely objections and as a general disclaimer from sincerely yours. Golf is not a sport. And I wonder whether little Donnie will go to war with Scotland, once he loses all his golf courses.

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On Fri Apr 21 2017 at 11:49 AM, SeanF said:

There is about 20% of the electorate that is utterly opposed to Brexit, and would try to reverse it (and that percentage is far higher in Inner London, and the Stockbroker Belt).  It makes sense for the Lib Dems, who won 8% last time, to try and corner that market.

What is inner London please? And what are you calling the stockbroker belt? Because if you just mean London plus the home counties, why specify 'inner London'? 

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