Corvo the Crow

Brandon the Barren?

101 posts in this topic

We know that Brandon had a long affair with Barbrey and people assume Brandon was a womanizer based on just this affair but if he was a womanizer why are there no Brandonlings around?

Even more importantly, how come Barbrey never got pregnant(assuming she isn't infertile)? 

Was he infertile?

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Because Brandon's bastards have no place in the story, so they never happened.

Alternatively, just because people fuck a lot, doesn't mean babies are guaranteed. 

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3 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

And there’s moontea.

No there's not. Lord Ryswell would know about his daughter aaking the maester for moontea and he'd prevent it so as to force the honorable Starks into marriage.

As for the peasants see Ramsay's mother. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Even more importantly, how come Barbrey never got pregnant(assuming she isn't infertile)? 

I'd also guess moon tea or similar. Not necessary to go to the castle maester, if there are woods witches - or brothels - in the area. Barbrey seems pretty sharp, and easily able to get around her Lord Father.

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34 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

We know that Brandon had a long affair with Barbrey and people assume Brandon was a womanizer based on just this affair but if he was a womanizer why are there no Brandonlings around?

Even more importantly, how come Barbrey never got pregnant(assuming she isn't infertile)? 

Was he infertile?

We don't know whether it was long or not.

But, sure, let's go with Brandon the Barren. What does it change?

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8 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

No there's not. Lord Ryswell would know about his daughter aaking the maester for moontea and he'd prevent it so as to force the honorable Starks into marriage.

As for the peasants see Ramsay's mother. 

She wouldn't have to ask a Maester specifically for moontea. She could ask a local woman, as I believe Cersei did when she fell pregnant to Robert. And, smallfolk/peasants have access to it as well... 

Quote

"The riverlands are full of maids you've pleased, all drinking tansy tea. You'd think a man as old as you would know to spill his seed on their bellies. Men will be calling you Tom Sevensons before much longer."

And, we don't know anything really about Lord Ryswell... maybe he didn't care about who his daughter was fucking, so long as she didn't besmirch her honour by getting pregnant. 

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Posted (edited)

It just doesn't fit with the plot. And yeah, you can fuck a lot without protection and even then a pregnancy is not guaranteed. And I have the light suspicion that Brandon didn't have a long affair with Barbrey.

Edited by Jon Fossoway

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http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Interview_in_Barcelona/

In A Dance with Dragons, we learn more about Brandon Stark and his interest in women, similar to Robert's. Did Brandon have any bastards as well?

It'd be an exaggeration to say that Brandon died before he could have children. It's established in the books that he was no virgin. He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.

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Barbrey didn't get pregnant in her marriage to Lord Dustin, either - she was married for less than half a year, so it's hardly a proof of anything, but some people simply don't get pregnant easily. And as for her affair with Brandon, how many times did they have sex? More than once or twice, given that she mentions "our last night together", but that doesn't mean their affair was long-running or that they had sex frequently.

Also, Brandon is a hot candidate for fathering Ashara's child, which was supposedly a girl and which fits with GRRM's statement that "Brandon died before he had sons".

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1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Was he infertile?

Who cares. He's dead and his death was the biggest effect on the story. Not much about him matters much

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yup Moontea which you can get from a woodswitch/be taught how to brew it. Plus just learning about your cycle. Knowledge which most women would understand in such times. Not 100% but helps you avoid it and then there is moontea if you fuck up. 

But crucially Barbrey has NEVER had children. She has had at least two sexual partners. She did marry lord Dustin and whilst he died shortly after their wedding it wasn't before they had spent at least a short while as man and wife. Then take into account that she is unlikely to have been celibate for the last 18 years. Or however long it was prior to her menopause. She may well just be infertile. Or at the least the evidence of her childless state implies she knows how to avoid pregnancy. 

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I don't think moontea is as widespread as some people tend to think; sure there are a few Maesters who know how to brew it and we know there are woodswitches who also know, but there's no way that moontea is as widespread as some people think. Maesters are only in castles and the commoners don't have access to them and I can't really bring myself to believe that there are just woodswitches all over the place who're willing to give just about anyone moontea for free. Not to mention also the ingredients; we don't really know what they are, other than tansy, mint and woodworm, but they seem to be regional, which means that not everyone has access to it. Arianne is a Princess of Dorne, so she could have access to the ingredients, but most women (and prostitutes) around Westeros don't seem to have easy access to either a woodswitch or the ingredients to moontea.

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Barbrey didn't get pregnant in her marriage to Lord Dustin, either - she was married for less than half a year, so it's hardly a proof of anything, but some people simply don't get pregnant easily.

 

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

But crucially Barbrey has NEVER had children. She has had at least two sexual partners. She did marry lord Dustin and whilst he died shortly after their wedding it wasn't before they had spent at least a short while as man and wife. Then take into account that she is unlikely to have been celibate for the last 18 years. Or however long it was prior to her menopause. She may well just be infertile. Or at the least the evidence of her childless state implies she knows how to avoid pregnancy. 

Maybe she did take moontea and she's just like Lysa who has a difficult time conceiving and/or her children would be sickly and die very soon after birth?

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39 minutes ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

woodswitches all over the place who're willing to give just about anyone moontea for free

Well, why would you assume the moontea would have to be "free", or that Lady Barbrey would be unable to pay, even at a high price? I think it would be reasonable to assume that moontea and its ingredients would be highly desired and tradeable throughout the continent, regardless of the sources of its components or manufacturers, like many drugs today (but there would be much less regulation!) High born women could afford it, from any source, and it would be an occupational necessity for whores.

But also note Barbrey's own apparent infertility. Just because Brandon the Wild Wolf didn't impregnate her doesn't mean he failed with other women. If so, they probably won't come into the story because (1) Bastardy, and (2) Females don't inherit. At this point, there are  plenty of main-line Starks still alive: Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Rickon.

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It's possible and actually likely that Brandon fathered children. "Little Snows", as Martin puts it, also confirming that Brandon never had any legitimate children. 

Q: In A Dance with Dragons, we learn more about Brandon Stark and his interest in women, similar to Robert's. Did Brandon have any bastards as well?

M: It'd be an exaggeration to say that Brandon died before he could have children. It's established in the books that he was no virgin. He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.

Also, why would anyone go to a maester for moon tea when they can go to a wood's witch? :P

 

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Just because his swimmers weren't as strong as Bob's does't mean he was infertile. He could have some bastards In the North and other places but because he died he can't recognize them like Robert did with Mya Stone. 

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Actually one of Brandon's bastards really would've made better cover for Jon. And ensure some domestic bliss.

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

She wouldn't have to ask a Maester specifically for moontea. She could ask a local woman, as I believe Cersei did when she fell pregnant to Robert. And, smallfolk/peasants have access to it as well... 

And, we don't know anything really about Lord Ryswell... maybe he didn't care about who his daughter was fucking, so long as she didn't besmirch her honour by getting pregnant. 

Why though?

If she was pregnant she would have leverage to marry Brandon her, love. Lord Stark would be honor bound to marry his heir with the woman he dishonored, especially since she is the daughter of a powerful bassak.

As for Lord Rodrik, I doubt he'd pass over the chance to marry into house Stark, especially if it's the heir.

Edited by Corvo the Crow

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11 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Also, Brandon is a hot candidate for fathering Ashara's child, which was supposedly a girl and which fits with GRRM's statement that "Brandon died before he had sons".

I believe it was Ned though, or why do we have all these stories/rumors on N&A and the respect and fondness Daynes have for him, going so far as naming(nicknaming) their heir after him?

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