Consigliere Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Robben and Ribery are out right? Still though they will have Muller and Lewandowski at least up front :D can't wait for that game later. Ribery, Badstuber, Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Rafinha and Martinez out. Robben is a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Xabi Alonso time baby! :wub: love that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex. Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Ribery, Badstuber, Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Rafinha and Martinez out. Robben is a doubt. Forgot about Martinez & Thiago as well... We really should be targeting Xabi Alonso big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Toughest game in our CL group is probably not the right time to rotate. Don't we play Chelsea next? That should be fun. Off to work, will probably have a longer reply later.Edit: Mexal, he's playing in a position where he's admitted he does not mind playing. It might be more prudent to question whey he hasn't done well on the wing rather than saying he sucks, because he can clearly play there, and has more than enough ability to. I think it's been difficult to find the right balance in the team, which to me is more important than the formation we're playing, or the positions we're putting people in. It's up to Wenger to get it right. Wish we had seen something better from the team after half time yesterday, I don't think I'm going to bother with watching any of it. Raja, that is simply not true. Ozil dislikes playing on the left because he's so far away from the danger zone if he manages to get past someone. He doesn't mind the right as much because he can cut in but it's clear that teams plan for this and he has nowhere to go. But his favorite position, his best position, is in a central playmaker role which he has claimed as well and even Mourinho called him the "best no 10 in the world". I believe I've given you multiple reasons why he hasn't played well on the wing beyond he sucks, from defensive responsibilities that he isn't very good at draining his energy, to the limited space with the touchline being an extra defender, to expectation that he beats people on the dribble which isn't his strongest ability, to the lack of options and most especially, to his inability to create space from others by drifting from a central position where people are worried about him and pulling defenders with him so others like Ramsey can run in behind. Those are all reasons why playing Ozil on the wing is a complete waste of money. Add in that he's in dire form and it just becomes all that more apparent. I have to say, I'm getting tired of the "he's capable of playing there" argument because I don't want someone who's capable, I want someone who thrives. Happy to hear your reasons why he's "capable" on the wing other than he has played there before because every time I've watched him, he's been about as influential as a door knob. Maybe when he was 21 at Schalke he was better, don't know. Chelsea is October 5th. We have 3 games before then against Villa, Spurs and Galatasaray. I think we can and need to rotate. That balance that Wenger is looking for is clearly not there and he needs to find it. We've won 2 games out of 7 this year and have only looked good against City. That's an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Pardew told him to get fucked actually. He was told before his loan to Norwich that he was not needed or wanted at Newcastle.I love jonas. His work rate and attitude were stellar.Good luck, jonas! I've read rumours (the relevant series of tweets is yesterday evening) to the effect that Pardew booted him out because of the cancer, or more specifically because he had the gall to want to have the operation and recovery at home. I don't know how reliable that Sam Kelly is but he links to interviews, albeit ones I can't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercenaryChef Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 I've read rumours (the relevant series of tweets is yesterday evening) to the effect that Pardew booted him out because of the cancer, or more specifically because he had the gall to want to have the operation and recovery at home. I don't know how reliable that Sam Kelly is but he links to interviews, albeit ones I can't understand.I truly hope that alan pardew is not that huge of a cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I truly hope that alan pardew is not that huge of a cunt. I truly hope that no one is that huge of a cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercenaryChef Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 I truly hope that no one is that huge of a cunt.Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex. Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 If anyone is though it's going to be Pardew, let's face it. City U-19's currently 2-0 up against Bayern U-19's in that youth Champion's League thing in Munich. Decent. ETA: And the Bayern keeper just got sent off. 3 points in the bag by the look of it. Nice one, lads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I meant him playing on he right ( where he played yesterday), I'm certain I read him saying that he prefers playing there as opposed to the right. I wasn't talking about him playing in the centre. My point there was, it's not an unfamiliar role for him.I think playing him on the wing is an attempt to get that balance right, especially if you're playing Arteta, Ramsey and Wilshere. Based on current form, he's not going to drop any of those. The latter has been playing well, and Ramsey's got us the important goals ( even though he has otherwise been poor). And you can't drop Arteta/ Flamini. Out of those players, Ozil is the only one to have any sort of proper experience on the wing.As you've said, Ozil could likely move to the centre with the injury to Wilshere. If you want him to have zero defending responsibilities, then I suppose that's the only position he can play. He should be doing so much better than he is, zero people, or at least the one's who have seen him play over the last year want him to dribble past players because that's not what his game is about.We have to somehow ensure we're not completely out of it before we have this figured out, helps that City and Liverpool have both lost already, though it would be nice if someone stopped Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex. Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 City U-19's currently 2-0 up against Bayern U-19's in that youth Champion's League thing in Munich. Decent. ETA: And the Bayern keeper just got sent off. 3 points in the bag by the look of it. Nice one, lads! 3-0 up now so it should be fine! Very good this young team ETA: 4-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I meant him playing on he right ( where he played yesterday), I'm certain I read him saying that he prefers playing there as opposed to the right. I wasn't talking about him playing in the centre. My point there was, it's not an unfamiliar role for him.I think playing him on the wing is an attempt to get that balance right, especially if you're playing Arteta, Ramsey and Wilshere. Based on current form, he's not going to drop any of those. The latter has been playing well, and Ramsey's got us the important goals ( even though he has otherwise been poor). And you can't drop Arteta/ Flamini. Out of those players, Ozil is the only one to have any sort of proper experience on the wing.As you've said, Ozil could likely move to the centre with the injury to Wilshere. If you want him to have zero defending responsibilities, then I suppose that's the only position he can play. He should be doing so much better than he is, zero people, or at least the one's who have seen him play over the last year want him to dribble past players because that's not what his game is about.We have to somehow ensure we're not completely out of it before we have this figured out, helps that City and Liverpool have both lost already, though it would be nice if someone stopped Chelsea. Yes, he prefers the right to the left but if you've noticed, he always starts on the left and then switches when in game with Sanchez. It's like Wenger starts him there and he's like, fuck this and moves then stays on the right. Agreed it's not an unfamiliar role but when he's the 3rd most expensive signing ever in the PL (behind Torres and Di Maria), seems a waste to play him in a role where he's less influential. What do wingers do? They beat their man, run down the sideline, cut inside or cross the ball. If you don't believe that people want him to beat his man because that's not what his game is about, then what's the point of putting him on the wing? What can he accomplish there? I'm legitimately curious. He's not creating space, he's not creating opportunity by beating his man and putting the ball in the box and by the time he receives it, he's being closed down on with nowhere to go. I just don't understand what you want him to do if his game doesn't lend himself to the wing, even if he has played there in the past. What you said above is Wenger's issue. He didn't get a DM so he's forced to play Arteta who cannot move anymore which was blatantly obvious yesterday. Ramsey is in dire form but he can't drop him and Wilshere was playing well. But is Arsenal playing well? Not really. They've played one decent game this season (still got lucky there at the end) and got lucky in a few others (Palace, Everton, first Besitkas come to mind), but they certainly haven't played well. So it's clear the balance isn't working. I get that Wenger wants to find a way to get Wilshere on the pitch and that's the reason he's opting for this formation, but his two best players are playing very poorly and getting away from what they're best at and Wilshere isn't anywhere near consistent enough to carry the load. So you get left with the garbage we've played. Will a return to a 4-2-3-1 fix everything? Doubt it. We still have Arteta/Flamini as our DM and they're terrible, plus injuries on the back end, but will it bring our shape back and hopefully put our best players in positions where they have thrived? Probably. Anyway, that's my thoughts on everything. If we continue down this path when Wilshere returns, watch how they play and how limited the space is for our playmakers. Watch the differences from this year and last with the runs from the midfield and watch the positioning of Ramsey/Wilshere plus Ozil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 There's more than one way to be a winger, I'm assuming it's the same reason for playing Cazorla on the wing, both of those players aren't going to beat men but they're going to hold onto the ball better than players like Podolski, Campbell, Ox, so ball retention would probably be one of the reasons you want to play someone like that there. Furthermore, against certain teams there is no point in having players like the Ox play, those that sit back and let us come at them because more often than not, he will be double teamed and will fail to beat his man.Again, that's my very facile knowledge of 'tactics'. Will certainly look out for those space issues, I need to have watched a game recently to have an opinion on that.I'm not sure why the system was changed, it could be an attempt to get the best out of Wilshere and Ramsey, or perform better in the bigger games, I don't know.Edit: Mexal, on your point about what's better for Arsenal, I completely agree that the team should come first. So whilst you're correct about that, I can see that as being another reason for playing him out wide, that in his opinion, that might be better for the team. It's the same principal here. It hasn't worked so far, I can agree with that Gah, you're tempting me to watch the Dortmund game so that I can better understand some of your points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercenaryChef Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 I am really enjoying this analysis of ozil by the resident gunners fans. It is more in depth and immersing than a simple 'he is shit.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I am really enjoying this analysis of ozil by the resident gunners fans.It is more in depth and immersing than a simple 'he is shit.' Awesome. Raja and I were talking on twitter about how we were taking over the thread. I'm glad you're enjoying it. What I like about this thread and the football fans here is that we can disagree completely yet do it in a rational way where we'll at least look at future games to check the other opinion. I find this to be the same in the NFL thread most of the time as well. It makes discussing Arsenal or any team much more enjoyable here than on Arsenal forums which are entirely made up of "he is shit" or "the formation sucks" without any reasoning behind it. Edit: Mexal, on your point about what's better for Arsenal, I completely agree that the team should come first. So whilst you're correct about that, I can see that as being another reason for playing him out wide, that in his opinion, that might be better for the team. It's the same principal here. It hasn't worked so far, I can agree with that Gah, you're tempting me to watch the Dortmund game so that I can better understand some of your points. If we were playing well with Ozil out wide, I'd agree that we just have to suck it up and it's better for the team but we haven't which is why I'm questioning the move from a successful system (minus a few away games) to what we have today, which with the players we bought, would have worked excellently in the old system and shored up some of our issues (lack of pace with Sanchez, Welbeck and Campbell/Ox). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Fully expected Muller to bury that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Probably should have been a penalty anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronzag Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Good finish, not a foul! :leaving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isalie Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Nothing good ever lasts of course, but tonight isn't a half bad night to be a Roma fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 And a bad night for Eastern Europeans, with BATE Borisov down 5-0 to Porto as well as CSKA down 5-0 to Roma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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