Help me buy a new car

[Whitestripe]

This has to be nonsense. If every other car in the lots near you are Subaru's, some of them have to have low miles. Where do you live? 
 
Also, to save $15,000 or more, you can afford to go get a car in a different location if you live in a small town.

I was perhaps exaggerating, but I meant that every second person drives a Subaru, and they all tend to drive them until they rust to pieces.

[Howdyphillip]

I was perhaps exaggerating, but I meant that every second person drives a Subaru, and they all tend to drive them until they rust to pieces.

I understand. I can get a bit overzealous when I talk about this subject. Personally, I am fairly radical when it comes to vehicle purchases. I shop for months and only by from previous owners instead of dealerships. I find the best value I can possibly find, and generally buy older used vehicles from somewhere between $1000- $3000. I generally buy two vehicles at a time in case the first breaks down. I then drive these cars for a year or two, and then sell them at a profit. By doing this, I really haven't paid for a car in over 20 years now.

[Iskaral Pust]

We bought a new car a few weeks ago, an Audi A7 (I love it; so much fun). My first indulgent splurge on a car.

In case it wasn't obvious, I can be a little analytical, so a few tips from my process:
- edmunds.com is a great resource. The forums will tell you the typical actual price, lease rate, etc for most makes and models. Negotiating is a pain. Tell the dealer you already know what price they'll accept so they don't need to waste both your time.
- used cars aren't a great deal unless you really shop around or buy something that depreciates more than average (so the quality is poor). A typical lease has a residual of 55% after 3 years and then the dealer marks it up for a 20-30% profit. The second owner doesn't get much of a discount from original actual price (not MSRP) considering the best years are gone. Best deals on used cars are private sales, but those are also the riskiest and the most work.
- decide on lease vs. buy. Depends on your mileage and likely holding period. Even then most leases include an offer to purchase at a fixed residual.
- know your sales tax, lease use tax, credit score, lease finance rate, likely interest rate on a loan, typical annual mileage, cost of maintenance, etc. BUILD YOUR OWN SPREADSHEET to calculate monthly payments for buy and lease. Know every input and be prepared to challenge each one.
- don't buy a car you cannot afford. There is a ton of dodgy subprime lending on cars at the moment. Do not fall in that trap. Car loans have big negative equity because of depreciation. Don't take out a 7yr loan at a high rate. Defaulting on a car loan is like burning money.
- because of all the current subprime lending, there could be a flood of used cars on the market in a couple of years which will hurt your resale value (so leasing might be good)
- it's better to buy a 2016 model than a 2015. The discount on the latter will not compensate for the lower residual or resale value.


If you want a fun crossover vehicle, the Porsche Cayenne is surprisingly low priced ($50k) for what you get. They even have a smaller (kind of dinky) model available for only $30k. The Range Rover Evoque is also cheaper than you would think.

Our Hyundai Santa Fe was only just under $30k back in 2007. That was a very good vehicle but there are premium options now for not much more.

Good luck. Have fun.

[zelticgar]

Iskaral's point on the spreadsheet is very important. When you create your own format and are comfortable with it is a lot easier to get a real picture of the actual cost.

 

Howdy - it sounds like you have a good system for you. I dont know how much time I would have to shop around on the direct seller market. I really tried to go the pre-owned route but my biggest problem with finding low mileage, under warranty vehicles has been the mismatch on trim levels. The last two times I tried it was in 2011 and last year. In 2011 I was looking for a civic and I could not find any good Civic LX's. Most of the pre-owned Civics were higher trim levels so when I looked at the price it was pretty close to a brand new LX. I drive my cars to 160k to 180k miles so I figure it was worth it to just buy new and drive it for 8 or 9 years. Last year I bought Mrs. Zelt a Pilot. It was the end of the body style year so I ended up buying the SE model. There were not a lot of low mileage Pilots for sale and any that were around were the highest end trim levels so the cost savings were minimal. I think I may try to buy a pre-owned car for my next purchase but its been tough at the times I've looked.

 

Love talking about car purchasing. I find the dealership fascinating. I actually enjoy taking the car in for an oil change at the dealer so I can sit in the waiting area and watch the salesmen operate.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Little know fact - Zelticgar is Iroquois for "buying a new car."

 

 

You're all so welcome.

[Tears of Lys]

:lol: @Larry

Fun non sequitur: This thread reminds me that I saw a fairly late model BMW that looked like it had been badly spray painted a flat black - bumpers and all - and had blackout windows. I concluded this was the vehicle of either a drug dealer or someone with extraordinarily bad taste.

Why, in the name of all that is holy, would anyone [i] amateurishly spray-paint I/] a nice, innocent BMW??

[Fragile Bird]

:lol: @Larry

Fun non sequitur: This thread reminds me that I saw a fairly late model BMW that looked like it had been badly spray painted a flat black - bumpers and all - and had blackout windows. I concluded this was the vehicle of either a drug dealer or someone with extraordinarily bad taste.

Why, in the name of all that is holy, would anyone [i] amateurishly spray-paint I/] a nice, innocent BMW??

I understand some people have been pushing flat paint as the new "in" colour. Flat black. Ugh!

[Lord of Oop North]

This has to be nonsense. If every other car in the lots near you are Subaru's, some of them have to have low miles. Where do you live? 

 

Also, to save $15,000 or more, you can afford to go get a car in a different location if you live in a small town.

I believe what she is saying. I'm related to a lot of auto-mechanics, so am exposed to a lot of gearhead types, and a large portion of these people are Subaru-fanatics. She is saying that it might be hard to find a used Subaru with low miles because the owners tend to keep them and maintain them for long periods of time. When they finally hit the market, they are in the very high mileage range. This certainly rings true to me. Subaru has spent a lot of money marketing their vehicle as a sort of lifestyle, and in my experience, it has certainly attracted a lot of people that get really into their vehicle.

 

Another thing to keep in mind about Subarus is that they retain value extremely well. I believe that they are typically vying for the #1 or #2 spot among non-luxury vehicles.

[Kat]

 Subaru has spent a lot of money marketing their vehicle as a sort of lifestyle, and in my experience, it has certainly attracted a lot of people that get really into their vehicle.

 

Another thing to keep in mind about Subarus is that they retain value extremely well. I believe that they are typically vying for the #1 or #2 spot among non-luxury vehicles.

 

Subaru literally sent me a badge set (like the sort you would have for a phone game, except like puffy metallic decals for my bumper) where I could proclaim that this was my (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc) Subaru and what sort of activities I like to do with it (camping, biking, paddling, etc.). Who makes car pride badges?? :rolleyes:  Nonetheless, I've briefly thought about trading mine in for something with better mileage now that I don't live out of the back of it anymore, but it is really useful for carrying my kayak and it should last for at least 150k more miles. My sister did get a low-mileage, warrantied used Subaru Forester from Enterprise for a pretty good deal.

[Alarich]

Actually, Chats, depending on your depreciation model (at least over here), it can very easily match the actual decline in value (depreciation by the operating hour, or degressive depreciation to account for high loss of value in the beginning etc.) ;-)

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an accountants thread...

[DireWolfSpirit]

Depends on your pricepoint I suppose.
The Subaru's are usually reasonably priced for the type vehicle you've described. My sister is very happy with her midsize crossover, an Acadia http://www.gmc.com/acadia-mid-size-suv.html. Those are running around 30k by looks of that ad. But i'm sure you could find a used 2014 or 2015 model for significantly less.

Okay here we go, looks like there's about 7,600 of them floating around-

GMC Acadia Under $20000 - Over 7,594 For Sale - Cars.com‎
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[Alarich]

Over here (Germany) VWs Passat Estate would be the Benchmark model for what you are probably looking for. The current Subaru models (Legacy or Outback) don't compare very favourably to the 2015 models of either Passat Estate or its cousin Skoda Superb Estate, tech and engines are dated, efficiency lower, less space.

Subaru has it niche and image staked out as a car that mainly land-owners drive who want to cultivate an image of slight understatement while going to hunt or just visiting their acreage.

 

I don't know however, if the newest VW Passat Estate is even available on the US market, so maybe you only have the smaller Golf SportWagon available which I personally don't like all that much.

[Lightning Lord]

My sister is car shopping as well.  After looking at Subarus for awhile, she is leaning towards a CRV.  She has outdoors gear and growing children, felt that something biggish was needed, but no minivans.  I guess check out a CRV?  I just googled that and they are bigger than I imagined, maybe larger than what you're looking for.

[zelticgar]

Whitestripe,

 

My mother in law drives a Forester and loves it. She paid low 20k's for it and it has a lot of room plus I think it comes standard with roof racks. Not sure on the cross bars but I am a big fan of the Thule roof boxes for travel. We use ours all the time on the Pilot. I think most of them have hitches too for bike racks. (another feature we use frequently). Not sure if the Suburu's have the same image in the states. I used to think of them as hippy crunchy cars, then they became the lesbian-mobiles, now they are starting to become more of a soccer mom type of car. (maybe its really just me changing!) 

 

Another vehicle to consider might be a Nissan Murano. I looked at those when we were considering cars and I thought they were pretty nice. I've heard mixed reviews on Nissan's newer transmission system but I see a ton of them around where I live and they seem pretty versatile.

[DanteGabriel]

Subaru has it niche and image staked out as a car that mainly land-owners drive who want to cultivate an image of slight understatement while going to hunt or just visiting their acreage.

 

 

Kinda reminds me of my brother. His day-to-day car is a Range Rover, but he didn't want to look like a rich douchebag when he drove up to his new farm estate on the weekends... so he bought a Land Rover Defender. 

 

 

 

Another vehicle to consider might be a Nissan Murano. I looked at those when we were considering cars and I thought they were pretty nice. I've heard mixed reviews on Nissan's newer transmission system but I see a ton of them around where I live and they seem pretty versatile.

 

Yeah, the continuously variable transmissions are a mixed bag. I test-drove a Rogue in 2011, which is one size down from the Murano, and had only a 4 cylinder engine  (and the car has gotten bigger since then, but not the engine). There is almost no reaction when you stomp the gas (except an unlovely whining noise), and since there are no distinct gear settings, you never get that feeling of transition to a different gear. It just creeps, ever so slowly, up to speed. It felt more anemic than a CRV, which is saying something The Rogue had been a winner on paper before that test drive, as I am disposed towards Nissans, and now I'd never consider one.

 

I test-drove a Murano a couple months ago while doing car research. It has enough power to actually make you feel it when it accelerates and it's reasonably fun to drive.

[zelticgar]

Dante,

Same issue when I test drove the Pathfinder. The transmission and pick-up seemed way off compared to the Highlander and Pilots. I went online and read about the CVT and got a lot of mixed feedback. I kind of feel bad because I give them credit for pushing more fuel efficient engines but at the end of the day I dinged them pretty much for the feel of the acceleration. As drivers we are used to more RPM fluctuation as we drive and the CVT smooths this effect out and in many cases does not allow for fast acceleration. I think it is easy enough to adjust your driving to accommodate but the perception is tough to overcome.

[Valandil]

I seem to recall I started a thread exactly like this several years ago, but the circumstances are different. My spouse and I are not fighting over a Mini Cooper, this time. My car runs perfectly fine and will probably last years and years longer, but the kids are growing and it is not. I have a Scion XD, and while I *like* it, I've never *loved* it.  We bought the Scion when my car was dead and we needed a replacement immediately.  With that in mind, we want to do our research now, so that when we get a car in the next year or so, we've had time to think about it.  I've always driven a compact car. My VW Golf was replaced by a Mazda 3 hatchback, and that was replaced  by the Scion I have now. But sooner than I would like, I will have teenagers. With teenage friends and teenage sized stuff, and all that is hard to fit into a Scion XD.  I need something bigger, but I don't want huge. I will never drive a mini-van. I like the idea of a hatch, crossover, or sporty wagon. Sedans are kinda dull. My winters suck. We're talking feet of snow.  I don't drive a whole lot, since I live 1.5 miles from my job and the kids walk to school. Finally, I don't want to break the bank.

So sell me your car. What do you drive that you love?

Sounds like you need a mitsubishi Outlander phev. Just bought one myself and my situation is  a bit like yours. Its a plug in hybrid, 4wd drive jeep. I got the Instyle version which has all the extras, nav, heated seats, leather, sunroof, climate control. I seriously couldn't be happier with it. And its roomy too, although I've two young kids, not teens. Awesome l/100km of about 1.8. You get 50 to 60 km on the charge before the 2l petrol engine kicks in (and if you're in Ireland like me, you get €1500 grant back off the govt., plus the ESB come out and fit the fast charging point for free! They start at €41,000

Edit: Although if your in North America as i suspect you are, it won't be available to you untill April 2016, sorry! so disregard!! (However cars in US always seem to be considerably cheaper than on this side of the pond so, theres that)

[Whitestripe]

Subaru image: It really is the go-to car here. My neighbor had two. I know families who have them and single people who have them and grandparents who have them!

We are also looking at the CRV. It's a little big, but like I said, I've always had a tiny car.

Transmission: I've always driven standard. I am not sure what I would do with myself in an automatic. Probably stomp on the break all the time looking for a clutch.

We're looking to spend up to the low 20's. I'm a car seller's nightmare in that I am perfectly happy with the base model, especially since Bluetooth is pretty standard these days. I don't care about navigation systems or leather seats or even cruise control. Bike hitches or top racks might be nice though, since we do take the bikes out.

[DanteGabriel]

Subaru image: It really is the go-to car here. My neighbor had two. I know families who have them and single people who have them and grandparents who have them!

We are also looking at the CRV. It's a little big, but like I said, I've always had a tiny car.

Transmission: I've always driven standard. I am not sure what I would do with myself in an automatic. Probably stomp on the break all the time looking for a clutch.

We're looking to spend up to the low 20's. I'm a car seller's nightmare in that I am perfectly happy with the base model, especially since Bluetooth is pretty standard these days. I don't care about navigation systems or leather seats or even cruise control. Bike hitches or top racks might be nice though, since we do take the bikes out.

 

I've noticed recently a new Honda crossover, one size below the CRV. The HRV might be right up your alley -- it's actually built on the Fit chassis, rather than the CRV chassis.

 

These days, lots of car manufacturers are phasing out even the option to have manual transmission -- but the Edmunds review indicates the HRV is available with a six-speed manual.

[Kalbear]

I loved our Toyota Matrix for pretty much all the reasons. It had room, was a stick, got 36 MPG and was fairly zippy. They stopped making it, sadly, but there are many used ones out there. They also have an AWD version if you can't handle not having it.