This whole "Run in zig-zag" thing

[John Suburbs]

It has long been a tenant of the film industry that reality and the laws of physics are only necessary inside the camera frame. Outside, you can get away with all kinds of stuff, and if you do it correctly you can even heighten the emotional impact of the story. So, for instance, we've probably all seen the movie where the woman is alone in a dark parking lot and she's scared because she thinks she's being followed and she runs to her car but, oh no!, she drops her keys, but then picks them up again and despite her trembling manages to unlock the car, climb inside and slam the door shut ... whew, safe -- only to have the killer suddenly grab her from the backseat with a knife in his hand. The surprise (well, once it was a surprise; now it's just cliché) of the ending completely glosses over the fact that you would have to be completely braindead not to see a grown man hiding in the backseat of your car.

You can also do this for comedic effect. Buster Keaton has a scene -- imitated in many a cartoon -- where he walks up to a rail line and looks both ways to see nothing by empty track from horizon to horizon. Then he walks across the track, turns around, and the train goes screaming past.

So I don't fault D&D for playing a little fast and loose with the reality of the scene, although I think they pushed it a little too far. I mean, compared to what Hollywood tries and get away with in their summer blockbusters, it was minor.

 

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

1 hour ago, Black Crow said:

Speaking as someone who has shot longbow for well over 20 years I can confidently say that if I wanted to I could have shot Rickon with the first arrow or two whether he zigged, zagged, ran in a straight line or turned hand stands.

Beyond that I'm dropping the shafts in his general area and quite honestly at that point he's just as likely to zig into the arrow as zig away from it.

I'm taking that as confirmation that I'm right, thanks guy

[Lord Lyman]

49 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

I'm taking that as confirmation that I'm right, thanks guy

But your not. Why would you not want to give the shooter an extra variable, thus forcing him to make a more challenging shot.

[Wendel Shoemaker]

3 hours ago, Black Crow said:

Speaking as someone who has shot longbow for well over 20 years I can confidently say that if I wanted to I could have shot Rickon with the first arrow or two whether he zigged, zagged, ran in a straight line or turned hand stands.

Beyond that I'm dropping the shafts in his general area and quite honestly at that point he's just as likely to zig into the arrow as zig away from it.

Of course, we're talking about what actually happened though. In which Ramsay purposely missed, then with the last shot, only shot one, which was avoidable. Would be a different story if he shot several in succession at the end.

[Corvinus85]

All I know is that if this plays out exactly the same in the book, I'll be reading about a 5-6 year old boy running as fast as his little legs can take him, and getting skewered by an arrow in the back. And that will not be a fun read.

[NutBurz]

2 hours ago, Lord Lyman said:

But your not. Why would you not want to give the shooter an extra variable, thus forcing him to make a more challenging shot.

Running both fast and in an unpredictable trajectory is way harder than people here are giving it credit for. Anyone who´s too bothered by the fact he ran straight should really just try the zig-zag in high speed thing.

 

One of the things that makes messi one the greatest soccer players ever is exactly his ability to change directions mid-run. And I still doubt that, presented with iminent danger to his life, he would remember to do it a lot.

[Schwarze Sonne]

I believe that had Rickon run in zig-zag, Ramsay would have ordered his archers to shoot him asap. As if it'd help much, Rickon would die even before Jon came near.

Also, Rickon is supposed to be a little kid. In books he would have been around 4-5 years old, while he'd be 6-7 years old in the show. I highly doubt he'd have come up with that tactic in the face of imminent danger.

[It's ok I'm the Glass Guy]

He didn't run straight, he veered slightly to the left! 

[Save the Direwolves]

I’m fine with Rickon not zig-zagging. He’s just a dumb kid who’s scared out of his mind so I think it’s not illogical to conclude that serpentining might not have come to mind in the heat of the moment. The logistics of the bowshot are, as others have pointed out, far more problematic to me. Not that Hollywood doesn’t play fast and loose with this stuff all the time it just irked me as it added more fuel to the myth of Ramsey Sue (so #$#^^@@ glad he’s finally dead, ice cream and fireworks for everybody!)

[Tonberry]

Bottom line:

1. Zig-zagging would have been smarter (or looking over his shoulder)

2. There's no reason Rickon would know to do this.

3. It's absurd that Ramsay could pull off this shot in the first place given many variables (Rickon's changing speed as he gets tired, wind, etc.)

4. The people who wrote this probably don't care.

[chasing the dragons]

Haven't read every post but did anyone work out if he could've made it to one of the flayed men and take cover?

[wolverine]

5 hours ago, Tonberry said:

Bottom line:

1. Zig-zagging would have been smarter (or looking over his shoulder)

2. There's no reason Rickon would know to do this.

3. It's absurd that Ramsay could pull off this shot in the first place given many variables (Rickon's changing speed as he gets tired, wind, etc.)

4. The people who wrote this probably don't care.

End thread.

[wolverine]

1 hour ago, chasing the dragons said:

Haven't read every post but did anyone work out if he could've made it to one of the flayed men and take cover?

Not yet.  Everyone got scared cuz someone got made fun of for using some simple math earlier.  Nerds.

[tmug]

Rickon didn't run zig-zag pattern because Jon was riding straight for him with his arm out basically telling Rickon to "run straight for your big bro Jon so I can sweep you up on my horsey and ride you to safety!"  **arrow** "... OOPS!"

This was mostly Jon's fault that Rickon didn't even consider to run in a zig-zag pattern.

That is the answer to why Rickon Stark did not run in a zig-zag pattern.

[Donaldys I Trumpagar]

Eh, some people here completely misunderstand the power of a bow in the hands of a competent bowman. A competent bowman can hit a very small stationary target at 300 yards. That said, it's better just to get out of the range of the bow as fast as possible -- outside of about 30 yards even the most skilled bowman can't hit a moving target without help from the gods. Zig-zagging would therefore be unwise except for one's first couple dozen strides or so.

 

[JonSnow4President]

I just love everyone saying "he was just a child/young boy" when his actor is as tall as Ramsey.  Almost think they would have been better off bringing a similarish younger actor since it has been so long and they didn't give Art any lines anyway.

[Raksha 2014]

On 6/21/2016 at 2:09 PM, Zoo_Dane said:

I completely agree. I tried to start a thread but it looks like it got deleted so I'll say it here...

I don't much care about the zig-zag argument. 

What i really don't understand is why Ramsay didn't use his dogs to chase down Rickon instead of shooting his arrows? 

It would be more believable that Rickons death would be a certainty. It would better fit Ramsays character since he is always using his dogs in new and cruel ways. And I think it would be more understandable for Jon Snow to moronically charge 6000 men by himself after watching dogs gruesomely tear his brother to shreds as opposed to watching his brother, who he already knew was as good as dead, be shot with an arrow. 

 

Ramsay obviously wanted to kill Rickon when the terrified kid was a few feet away from Jon; after shooting at Rickon (deliberately missing) to scare him and Jon.  It's Ramsay's modus operandi to toy with his prey and horrify his enemies.  If he had sent the dogs out after the boy, they would have reached him very quickly; then Ramsay would have had to continually ride up to the hounds and make sure they didn't rip him to shreds ahead of the desired moment, and would have had to come dangerously close to an enraged Jon in order to give the kill order when Rickon was close to Jon.  

 

[JonSnow4President]

18 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

Ramsay obviously wanted to kill Rickon when the terrified kid was a few feet away from Jon; after shooting at Rickon (deliberately missing) to scare him and Jon.  It's Ramsay's modus operandi to toy with his prey and horrify his enemies.  If he had sent the dogs out after the boy, they would have reached him very quickly; then Ramsay would have had to continually ride up to the hounds and make sure they didn't rip him to shreds ahead of the desired moment, and would have had to come dangerously close to an enraged Jon in order to give the kill order when Rickon was close to Jon.  

 

Just time the release of the dogs....  Hell, there's a chance they can take out Jon if he's close enough.

[GilletteMace]

zig zagging wouldnt have helped rickon, since ramsay would have hit him anyway. it would have made the scene look more natural though and have raised the impact of it. the real question is, why didnt he just kill jon? (i know i know, ramsay is a sadistic player...)

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

15 minutes ago, GilletteMace said:

zig zagging wouldnt have helped rickon, since ramsay would have hit him anyway. it would have made the scene look more natural though and have raised the impact of it. the real question is, why didnt he just kill jon? (i know i know, ramsay is a sadistic player...)

Yes he was playing with Jon, but most importantly he caused Jon to completely lose his head and make a series of mistakes which played straight into Ramseys hands.