Le Cygne Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 11 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: I know for a fact I'm not a Harma The Dogshead feminist. I still haven't gotten over Old Yeller. Oh, heaven forbid! You can't be a Sansa feminist and a Harma the Dogshead feminist. Two opposing forces of nature. One loves dogs. One, well, not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Oh, heaven forbid! You can't be a Sansa feminist and a Harma the Dogshead feminist. Two opposing forces of nature. One loves dogs. One, well, not so much... I bet Sansa would find Old Yeller upsetting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightOfJests Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 I just view that Sandor will serve as a way of furthering the Stark name. He's serious, and she has become serious. Sansa isn't the girl she was in season 1, 2, or 3. She won't be SUPER excited for a marriage, but Sandor coming back, and being the only man who ever really seemed interested in her beyond pity, or personal gain (Tyrion and Littlefinger) will be her husband. They will live with a mutual respect and loyalty to each other. Maybe even a wee bit of love in there as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Por Jon, he came back from the dead just to become a pawn of Sansa. Will that make him smile even more? I'm Gilly feminist, start out with a bad beginning and come on strong! H'eh. Although I like the Jon's smiles charts, where are the footnotes, the citations and the glossary so I can know for sure the data is authentic and not corrupt? We're talking smiles here people, this isn't just any old study that somebody might throw together. How will we ever know for sure how Jon feels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostNymeria Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 19 hours ago, Le Cygne said: He's never been happier. Sansa manipulating and mistrusting him makes his heart sing. Good thing they dropped that Arya concept, because otherwise there would be this bond where they trust each other implicitly. And not that Sansa matters or anything, but good thing they dropped that Sandor concept, too, because otherwise, get her a dog, she'll be happier for it. We are wrong to want to see those reunions they have been building up to all series long, we should hope that Arya and Sandor stay in limbo, so they can devote next season to the not at all sappy romance between Jon and Sansa. Even though the showrunners said it was not a romance at all. Lol But Jon and Sansa is obviously meant for each other. Why would they be happy to see each other again otherwise? It's obviously means they're in love, duh. I mean, when Jon is reunited with Bran and Arya, he's not going to hug them or smile at them. That was only for Sansa, she's so uniquely special to Jon now, they've been building their relationship since the first season, didn't you know? Also, Sansa is obviously to pretty and highborn for Sandor, she must marry a king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightOfJests Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 To all the people viewing that Sansa and Jon would not be weird since he's part Targaryen I have this to ask. Would a child who was adopted, and found out he was by the time he was like 18-20 years of age really view his family that differently? At the end of this I doubt Jon will stop viewing Ned as his dad, or his sisters as his (non marriable) sisters. Honestly my theory is that Jon will marry Daenerys, but more out of her arriving, him saying that they could fight which would split and shatter the Kingdom, and when she wins she can deal with the white walkers. I personally think he would demand the Norths independence in exchange for marriage, and the Norths aid, and maybe when everything's over the may leave a few hints that actual romance could happen with them. Jon would not view Daenerys as odd because he has never known her, but he has probably heard plenty of stories about Targaryen marriages. Basically if I'm an adopted kid, and me and my sister have viewed each other as siblings forever, and I find out I'm adopted, it seems odd for me to just suddenly say "Hmm.... guess she's available then" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormond Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Sansa most sympathetic moment came when she hugged jon in their reunion. there have not been any more moments of rooting for Sansa. Looking at her objectively, you understand Arya's feeling for Sansa and you kind of feel the same way. She's just somebody that is hard to root for even if she has been the victim for most of her story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 4:26 PM, TheKnightOfJests said: I just view that Sandor will serve as a way of furthering the Stark name. Pretty sure he's a Clegane not a Stark. That means he'd only be furthering the Clegane name not the Stark name if he creeped on Sansa so bad he went and made himself her third doomed husband. Plus she's a real Lady now. He's not even a Ser. It's disgusting to imagine her marrying so far beneath her station. The high nobility DO NOT marry commoners. That would bring grave dishonor upon her family. There's no way Lady Sandra would so quickly forget all three of her mother's words: Family, Duty, Honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightOfJests Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 2 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said: Pretty sure he's a Clegane not a Stark. That means he'd only be furthering the Clegane name not the Stark name if he creeped on Sansa so bad he went and made himself her third doomed husband. Plus she's a real Lady now. He's not even a Ser. It's disgusting to imagine her marrying so far beneath her station. The high nobility DO NOT marry commoners. That would bring grave dishonor upon her family. There's no way Lady Sandra would so quickly forget all three of her mother's words: Family, Duty, Honor. Technically if his The Mountain dies Sandor would be the head of House Clegane. NOT a commoner. I realize House Clegane isn't a big house, but it's a house nonetheless. That being said Sandor doesn't care about titles that much, and in the lore of Westeros there is a story of a lord taking his WIFES name because she was of a prestigious House and he was not. Sandor does not care about his titles hence why he would not care about the Clegane name, and would be happy to become Sandor Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 1 hour ago, TheKnightOfJests said: Technically if his The Mountain dies Sandor would be the head of House Clegane. NOT a commoner. I realize House Clegane isn't a big house, but it's a house nonetheless. That being said Sandor doesn't care about titles that much, and in the lore of Westeros there is a story of a lord taking his WIFES name because she was of a prestigious House and he was not. Sandor does not care about his titles hence why he would not care about the Clegane name, and would be happy to become Sandor Stark. Actually, Sandor could not be the head of House Clegane now that Gregor is dead and left no heirs because he is a deserter and so his claim to the Clegane lands is forfeit. As Gregor was a Lannister bannerman and the Lannisters are the rulers, they would take the lands and give them to a loyal bannerman. As for Sandor not caring for the Clegane name, I disagree because when he was telling Sansa about his house's history, he indicated he had a lot of pride towards his grandfather's bravery and his three dogs which saved their Lannister liege. The Clegane name and his grandfathers legacy is one he is proud of. Even in the show when he was fighting Dodarrion he said "Is it a crime to be born a Clegane?" a rhetorical question to be sure, but one challenging the notion that he was like his brother, when he was not. Because of Sandor's status as a deserter he really isn't either a noble or a commoner anymore, more like a wanted criminal. At any rate, since Sansa is a wanted criminal as well, there they have some parity. Still they have a class difference, which is not a insurmountable problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightOfJests Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, LongRider said: Actually, Sandor could not be the head of House Clegane now that Gregor is dead and left no heirs because he is a deserter and so his claim to the Clegane lands is forfeit. As Gregor was a Lannister bannerman and the Lannisters are the rulers, they would take the lands and give them to a loyal bannerman. As for Sandor not caring for the Clegane name, I disagree because when he was telling Sansa about his house's history, he indicated he had a lot of pride towards his grandfather's bravery and his three dogs which saved their Lannister liege. The Clegane name and his grandfathers legacy is one he is proud of. Even in the show when he was fighting Dodarrion he said "Is it a crime to be born a Clegane?" a rhetorical question to be sure, but one challenging the notion that he was like his brother, when he was not. Because of Sandor's status as a deserter he really isn't either a noble or a commoner anymore, more like a wanted criminal. At any rate, since Sansa is a wanted criminal as well, there they have some parity. Still they have a class difference, which is not a surmountable problem. When all this is settled some people may be higher than others, titles may be granted, classes may be shifted, etc. Basically I was meaning he didn't really care for titles and such. He could still teach his children about the Clegane family. As far as I know of there are no heirs to House Clegane besides Sandor and if he doesn't count then there's not a huge problem. The class difference is there, but as I said at the top, we could have rules changed at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 He didn't care for the title 'Ser' the title of a knight, but he took the title of King's Guard and later told Arya that Robb should make him a lordling and have him become part of Robb's service. Not huge ambitions true, but still within keeping for the minor noble he was. I do agree with you that with the upcoming battles; Dany, Aegon and the WW's there could be plenty of room for societal change, which could definitely affect many characters, including Sansa and Sandor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightOfJests Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 10 hours ago, LongRider said: He didn't care for the title 'Ser' the title of a knight, but he took the title of King's Guard and later told Arya that Robb should make him a lordling and have him become part of Robb's service. Not huge ambitions true, but still within keeping for the minor noble he was. I do agree with you that with the upcoming battles; Dany, Aegon and the WW's there could be plenty of room for societal change, which could definitely affect many characters, including Sansa and Sandor. I just think it would be quite easy to grant him a title once everything was over. Sort of like Davos with Stannis. If she meets him I could honestly see Arya telling Sansa "Hey this dude protected me a long time" and Sansa being able to grant him some minor thing there. Only saying this if she was Lady of Winterfell, or Queen in the North of course, which I think will be likely since as I've said before that I believe Jon will marry Daenerys and keep Peace in the South with the condition that the North be free. I actually forgot all the "grant me a lordship" thing haha (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 11 hours ago, LongRider said: He didn't care for the title 'Ser' the title of a knight, but he took the title of King's Guard and later told Arya that Robb should make him a lordling and have him become part of Robb's service. Not huge ambitions true, but still within keeping for the minor noble he was. I do agree with you that with the upcoming battles; Dany, Aegon and the WW's there could be plenty of room for societal change, which could definitely affect many characters, including Sansa and Sandor. The Beast's lines La Belle et la Bete: Quote THE BEAST: One does not call me "my Lord"; one calls me "Beast." I don't like compliments. The Hound's lines, earlier in the story: Quote "Spare me your empty little compliments, girl... and your ser's. I am no knight."... "And I'm no lord, no more than I'm a knight." And as the story progressed, in the midst of going on and on about a certain lady he's missing: Quote "If this Young Wolf has the wits the gods gave a toad, he’ll make me a lordling and beg me to enter his service." Meanwhile, at the same time, she's making parallels between Alayne Stone/Sandor and Mya Stone/Lothor. These two are trying to meet in the middle, however they can. I think all the show parallels are showing they are two of a kind. So when they meet again... The gulf is bridged. They've done that, in the ways they have grown. Where there's a will, there's a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 In a world where the bastard and NW deserter Jon Snow becomes King of the North, where bastard and kinslayer Ramsay Snow becomes Lord of Winterfell, where Littlefinger marries Lady Arryn, Cersei Lannister sits her ass on IT and Ellaria Sand rules Dorne and everyone is ok with it... I seriously don't see Sandor's relatively low birth as an obstacle to anything, especially if the Starks get to rule the North. And we may like SanSan or we may not, but we had a ton of foreshadowing and I say it's happening next season, one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Claw Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Sandor could become Lord of the Dredfort. Ramsay was associated so much with hounds so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightOfJests Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 I imagine that because we apparently just have "13" episodes left that any romance will be short. Not short as in everyone will die, just that they'll establish whatever they need to, and then go back to focusing on the main threats. Brienne/Tormund will either be established and we'll just see the two together throughout episodes after that, and maybe a short scene with just the two of them, or it will be snuffed out, either by one dying, Brienne/Jaime, or Her just rejecting him. Jon/Dany might happen, but if it does I think it would more be left up to the audience to decide rather than devoting long scenes to the two. I think Jon will offer marriage to Dany, and at the end we'll be left to wonder if it is a loving one or not. If it doesn't happen, I'd say it would be for a similar reason to Brienne and Tormund. Sansa/Sandor is the only one I'm pretty sure will happen. Even then I think we'll just have an episode establishing that they had a thing in the Previously on Game of Thrones bit, and that the episode will have the two meeting and becoming a real thing. Then we'll just see them together here and there and have one or two little scenes between the two, like the Brienne/Tormund pairing if that happens. There are other pairings, the first two and SanSan were just the three that came to mind. For the same reason as pairings being cut short, I also doubt that there will be many nude scenes next season beyond background characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 If anything, this season has shown that when the writers want to prop a ship, they're NOT subtle. If you have to grasp at straws for SanSan hints to the point where you wind up claiming--among other things--that the fact that they both drink ale means that they're meant 2 B--it's safe to say that those hints are not there. I find it very funny when it's the same people who complain at great length about how horribly unsubtle and loathsomely crude the show's writing is in all other respects who argue that the writers are so exquisitely subtle when it comes to hinting at SanSan that the clues are completely unrecognizable to all but the most discerning. Hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightOfJests Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 I think the subtle hints are because the characters are far away from each other. We can't have The Hound do a Tormund stare at Sansa if he's not around her, we can only hint at things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Here's what they said about Sandor on the inside the episode: Quote "He's a more thoughtful person... He's really thinking about his past in a way he never had before... He's starting to see that there's perhaps a different way of living your life. The unfortunate ugly reality is the kind of pacifism Ray is preaching is often suicidal when you are in the middle of the world they are all in." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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