Luke Cage: Tired of Buying New Clothes (Spoiler Thread)

[protar]

Isn't Jessica physically stronger than Luke, in terms of lifting things, whereas he's obviously got the bulletproof thing going on? Iron Fist is magic so they can make him as weak or powerful as they want. It seems to me like it's Daredevil who is the weakest, although obviously his powers allow him to gather information that the other's can't have access too. 

[Maltaran]

7 hours ago, Corvinus said:

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Considering that Claire kept making off hand references to Matt Murdock, it could actually be a good way to start the Defenders by having Matt using the file Bobby Fish found and getting Luke out of prison.

 

I'm pretty sure she meant Foggy rather than Matt

5 hours ago, protar said:

 

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I expect that the Defenders will begin with DD getting his ass kicked by the Hand and then Claire acting as The Defender's Coulson, bringing everyone together. Including getting Luke out of jail. I guess recruiting a team member out of prison is always pretty cool.

 

 

11 hours ago, protar said:

 

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 it's kind of unfortunate that due to the Defenders coming before LC season 2, his imprisonment will have to be handwaved pretty quickly.

 

No handwaving required, we saw Bobby find the file in the barber shop at the end of the last episode, so presumably he'll go through the appeals process while Iron Fist is happening and be cleared and back to New York for Defenders

[Maltaran]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Stick me in the 'can't hear any difference between ER and A at the end of the word' camp.  
 

Me too, although most of the time I could tell from the context which one was meant.

[polishgenius]

Finished. Spoilers for all:

I agree with the majority opinion that killing off Cottonmouth was a bold decision that just didn't work, because Diamondback really didn't stand up to him as a presence. Less interesting to watch, and because his connection to Luke wasn't convincing at all (the show had a real problem with introducing backstory in general), he was just a not-very-interestingly-crazy dude slaughtering everyone.

Mariah ended up in a good spot for the future but spent most of the time after she killed her cuz being too reactive and pushed around to be really interesting in the season.
Shades was good though. Given how stupid everyone else on the bad side was behaving, it was nice to see a level head, and he was also a complex character veering plausibly between moments of humanity and being a total bastard.

I also thought it had the problem a few of the films have had, which was tying in the not-superhero thematic stuff with the superheroic theatrics. In the first half it did well by simply not playing action as all that significant- it was just shit that got done, and conversations and decisions were far more likely to be the focal point of an episode- but once Diamondback got involved it got more blowy-uppy. The club siege worked, in part because it focused on tension and threat rather as much as actual action, but the final confrontation was just rubbish.


High-points: acting was excellent, character writing for the most part too. I saw a few reviews complaining about overlong dialogue scenes, but honestly (again, apart from Diamondback) for me the show was always at its most interesting when someone was talking.
Or singing. The music was excellent, and used excellently for atmosphere. When it took advantage of the soundtrack was also when the show felt most at home with its comic-booky theatrical trappings.
Method Man's cameo was particularly inspired. It did feel like something added in later than the initial writing stage, because the 'bullet-proof black man' angle wasn't a theme in the rest of the show at all, but it's a pertinent message that they managed to really make work in the context too.
Claire. Claire was awesome. And Misty's arc was in the end well done (there were a couple moments where I wasn't sure where it was going, but it proved out). One wonders if and when she'll become the comic-book Misty, but as a beginning to the character it was very good.

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, protar said:

Isn't Jessica physically stronger than Luke, in terms of lifting things, whereas he's obviously got the bulletproof thing going on? 

Yeah she should be considerably stronger than him, just more vulnerable. I don't think Luke can jump so high that people describe it as "flying" like she can. Plus she did it while carrying Killgrave once. 

[The Wolves]

3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Yeah she should be considerably stronger than him, just more vulnerable. I don't think Luke can jump so high that people describe it as "flying" like she can. Plus she did it while carrying Killgrave once. 

I think Luke is stronger than Jessica. I could be wrong. 

[Astromech]

2 hours ago, protar said:

Isn't Jessica physically stronger than Luke, in terms of lifting things, whereas he's obviously got the bulletproof thing going on? Iron Fist is magic so they can make him as weak or powerful as they want. It seems to me like it's Daredevil who is the weakest, although obviously his powers allow him to gather information that the other's can't have access too. 

http://marvel.com/universe/Jessica_Jones

http://marvel.com/universe/Luke_Cage

[DaveSumm]

13 hours ago, Relic said:

It must suck to be hard of hearing AND to fail at reading. As i said above: there are two different words and YOU or I should not use either of them. No one outside of the African American community should. 

Sorry for dredging this up again but you're just gonna have to accept this: to a huge number of people, these words sound identical. There is literally zero difference between how I would pronounce the words written down, same goes for any other pair of words ending in an 'er' or an 'a'. Here in the UK I'm pretty sure very few people are aware there's two words. Cos, you know, they sound exactly the same? Sorry for being from a different country an all, but that's not the same as being hard of hearing.

Finished:

Spoiler

I think you're all being quite kind to Diamondback, he was a terrible villain. Such a shame as the rest of the series had such promise. At its heights, it could be the best of the four seasons so far, but that last third dropped almost down to DCTVU levels at times. Did Diamondback go to a single meeting where he didn't end up killing at least one of the attendees? Why the hell does anyone work for him? Literally every meeting that happened I was just waiting for someone to get 'unexpectedly' shot, it got so boring. The whole criminal scene in it just descended in to Bond villainy, a real shame after Cottonmouth.

Daredevil and Jessica Jones had flaws, but they were hugely raised up by Fisk, Purple Man and Punisher for me. And there isn't anything so good in Luke Cage to offset Diamondback. Even the way he was introduced, the reveal of him being his brother before we knew anything about his background so it fell flat, none of it came off. Then right at the end, we finally get a scene between the youthful two brothers, providing the context we desperately needed about 5 episodes ago.....and the actor playing young Diamondback completely outclasses the older actor in only a few minutes.

Still excited for Defenders (will we get a JJ2 before that? A LC2?) but easily the weakest of the 3 so far for me.

 

[DaveSumm]

Oh, and minor nitpick from about episode 8 or 9, can't remember:

Spoiler

Why did everyone seem so chilled about Luke getting shot? Rosario Dawson couldn't get the shrapnel out, so he just......starts putting his coat on? Where's he going? Then he ends up fighting all night, and then hey, let's drive to Georgia! You can totally make it there with two bullet wounds. What?

 

[Martini Sigil]

14 hours ago, Relic said:

It must suck to be hard of hearing AND to fail at reading. As i said above: there are two different words and YOU or I should not use either of them. No one outside of the African American community should. 

FFS...It must suck to be a sociological illiterate and be so indignant so as to defend the indefensible.... its the same word... one spelling is a derivative of the other.... like Talking and Talkin'... They have the same meaning... it's not like one is a hateful slang word for African Americans, and the other means something entirely different... if you can't use either spelling for the same reason... they are the same word.

You're a moderator here?.... holy cow.

[The Anti-Targ]

Not reading the thread yet as I've only seen 3 episodes. It's not as gripping or engaging as Daredevil or Jessica Jones so far. It feels like 3 Episodes of one long establishing scene, which I think is a lot more than it needed to be. Then again, as a reluctant hero it's going to take several events to get him in the game. I also think ... are we assuming everyone's seen JJ?

Spoiler

there should have been more angsting over the fact that he got mind-controlled in JJ.

...I feel like so far his presence in JJ gets a mention, but have had no actual impact on the series so far.

JJ is already a PI when her series starts, so she's already active in the shady and seedy side of the city, so getting straight into it isn't an issue with her, and DD is already a committed vigilante who enjoys fighting. So there's good reason for the slower start. I am looking forward to the pace picking up right about now. 

 

 

[Martell Spy]

Just got done. Yeah, Marvel Netflix definitely has a hit, I agree. Very solid season all around.

Spoilers for all seasons

Spoiler

 

I think the best creations of this show were Cottonmouth and Misty Knight. It's very unfortunate CM had to go so early. I don't agree the season dropped off after that,  as I think someone said above. (I haven't had a chance to read all reviews above yet) There was less sparkle for the show though for me after he was gone and the early arc of the show was my favorite part. But eps 10 to 13 had quite a bit going on to keep my interest.

Pacing was pretty much top notch. Only DD season 1 did pacing better and that's mainly because it really landed the finale and kept the tension all the way to the end. I'd rate LC's finale slightly above JJ though, and I actually liked the JJ finale. Only bad finale so far was DD2 on an otherwise top notch season. I think those 2 twists are what made the LC finale so effective.

Action was better than JJ, but not as good as DD. That ep 3 raid was incredible. They fortunately figured out how to use Luke in action better than JJ did. However, I do feel they lost a lot of opportunities to really stretch out with his powers. I was expecting another ep like 3 and it never really came. Obviously he's not going to randomly vandalize stuff, but they really needed to find an excuse for him to bulldoze stuff, because it's damn fun to watch.

Villains I'd rate lower than the other shows, but that isn't really insult. It's just because the competition is so fierce. Kilgrave and the Kingpin are some of the best villains ever on screen. And the Punisher was so great that people clamored for him to get a show. Cottonmouth was extremely interesting to watch and it's why I loved the first 7 eps the most. Diamondback was a pretty compelling villain, but suffered a bit in comparison to Cottonmouth. His high tech weapons were very cool, especially the Judas. He was especially menacing in his first sniper attack on Luke. I thought Diamondback was going to be this mutant snake creature, but I should have known Marvel Netflix wouldn't go there, LOL. I'm going to go wikapedia him now and see how he is in the comics. I was waiting to do that. His emotional hatred of Luke is a huge weakness, however. He was very hard to catch, otherwise. Shades are Mariah are also a good addition for the show. Kind of an ongoing local thieve's guild. Oh yeah, and Turk is the guy that gets beat up and shit on by all the heroes, but he always survives. LOL.

Strengths of the show was the fantastic music and live performances, the neighborhood people being so integrated into the show, the politics and how it was integrated into the storyline so well, great pacing. 

I'd say the show's biggest weakness was ep 9.. They didn't quite drop an entire clunker of an ep. like JJ did (with that infamous focus group attacking JJ scene) but they came close it appeared. Misty Knight is fantastic, but that scene with her and the police psychologist or whatever he was, it was the only time in the entire series were I was pretty bored and it went on way too long. I think perhaps they were switchinging between Luke, the villains, and Misty, and they needed something for her to do. But it was lame unfortunately and seemed kinda like something I'd be forced to watch on a CBS procedural. The end of the ep was exciting though and the show didn't go into a tailspin after like I feared.

I think my favorite eps were 3, 7, and 10.

Favorite moments were Luke and Cottonmouth verbally sparring, the Misty Knight Cottonmouth confrontation, Claire breaking the shades, the raid on Fort Knox, Luke picking up Misty Knight at the bar in her "auditor" disguise, Luke and Claire on the beach, and various scenes with Pop in the beginning. Also Holey Hoodies was amazing. Also liked Cottonmouth and Mariah plotting in the early episodes. Various live performances at the club.

Hard for me to rate these because they are some of my favorite tv shows, other than Mr. Robot. I think Luke Cage was pretty much a 9. Really solid all around, but with some missed opportunities. Might of been perfect if they had either really stretched out with Luke's powers and some buildings and inanimate objects, or if they had made better use of Cottonmouth. Diamondback was ominous and effective, but I"d have kept Cottonmouth longer, and used Diamondback a bit less. He was more effective frankly before he was even in view and in his early ambush. I think they'll need a new villain for next season, revenge of Diamondback isn't really going to cut it.

Looks like Luke may finally meet Matt Murdoch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Not reading the thread yet as I've only seen 3 episodes. It's not as gripping or engaging as Daredevil or Jessica Jones so far. It feels like 3 Episodes of one long establishing scene, which I think is a lot more than it needed to be. Then again, as a reluctant hero it's going to take several events to get him in the game. I also think ... are we assuming everyone's seen JJ?

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there should have been more angsting over the fact that he got mind-controlled in JJ.

...I feel like so far his presence in JJ gets a mention, but have had no actual impact on the series so far.

JJ is already a PI when her series starts, so she's already active in the shady and seedy side of the city, so getting straight into it isn't an issue with her, and DD is already a committed vigilante who enjoys fighting. So there's good reason for the slower start. I am looking forward to the pace picking up right about now. 

 

 

Responding to your JJ point, very minor spoilers

A few times it seems to be emphasised Luke is wearing earphones. I assumed this was because of what happened with Killgrave, considering that technique was used in JJ. Maybe I read too much into it but it makes sense to me 

[The Anti-Targ]

33 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Responding to your JJ point, very minor spoilers

 

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A few times it seems to be emphasised Luke is wearing earphones. I assumed this was because of what happened with Killgrave, considering that technique was used in JJ. Maybe I read too much into it but it makes sense to me 

 

Interesting. I didn't make that association. You could be right. Too subtle for me I guess.

[SpaceChampion]

Regarding Iron Fist

Spoiler

I believe I read somewhere Misty Knight is going to be in it.  So perhaps Claire isn't needed to hook him into Defenders if Misty can do that instead.  On the other hand isn't Misty and Claire suppose to be roommates in the comics?  maybe they decide to share a place and Claire introduces Misty to Danny Rand.  What part of NY is Danny associated with?  I was thinking Luke Cage has to go to prison in order for Danny to have his first season without Luke crossing paths with him; so they meet for the first time in Defenders.

Did anyone else catch when one of Cottonmouth's goons refers to Claire as the Night Nurse?

[alguien]

Four episodes deep. Bit of a slow burn, but I'm digging it. 

I keep thinking, "How the fuck can they not have Luke Cage join the Avengers?!"

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, alguien said:

Four episodes deep. Bit of a slow burn, but I'm digging it. 

I keep thinking, "How the fuck can they not have Luke Cage join the Avengers?!"

Yea, if had a choice between him and Black Widow I know which way I'd go....

[Mike]

2 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Regarding Iron Fist

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I believe I read somewhere Misty Knight is going to be in it.  So perhaps Claire isn't needed to hook him into Defenders if Misty can do that instead.  On the other hand isn't Misty and Claire suppose to be roommates in the comics?  maybe they decide to share a place and Claire introduces Misty to Danny Rand.  What part of NY is Danny associated with?  I was thinking Luke Cage has to go to prison in order for Danny to have his first season without Luke crossing paths with him; so they meet for the first time in Defenders.

Did anyone else catch when one of Cottonmouth's goons refers to Claire as the Night Nurse?

Spoiler

In the final montage, Claire pulls a tab off an advert for martial arts training from Colleen Wing, a Japanese samurai friend of Danny Rand's (and also one half of Daughters of the Dragon with Misty Knight).

 

[Mike]

10 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Sorry for dredging this up again but you're just gonna have to accept this: to a huge number of people, these words sound identical. There is literally zero difference between how I would pronounce the words written down, same goes for any other pair of words ending in an 'er' or an 'a'. Here in the UK I'm pretty sure very few people are aware there's two words. Cos, you know, they sound exactly the same? Sorry for being from a different country an all, but that's not the same as being hard of hearing.

Finished:

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I think you're all being quite kind to Diamondback, he was a terrible villain. Such a shame as the rest of the series had such promise. At its heights, it could be the best of the four seasons so far, but that last third dropped almost down to DCTVU levels at times. Did Diamondback go to a single meeting where he didn't end up killing at least one of the attendees? Why the hell does anyone work for him? Literally every meeting that happened I was just waiting for someone to get 'unexpectedly' shot, it got so boring. The whole criminal scene in it just descended in to Bond villainy, a real shame after Cottonmouth.

Daredevil and Jessica Jones had flaws, but they were hugely raised up by Fisk, Purple Man and Punisher for me. And there isn't anything so good in Luke Cage to offset Diamondback. Even the way he was introduced, the reveal of him being his brother before we knew anything about his background so it fell flat, none of it came off. Then right at the end, we finally get a scene between the youthful two brothers, providing the context we desperately needed about 5 episodes ago.....and the actor playing young Diamondback completely outclasses the older actor in only a few minutes.

Still excited for Defenders (will we get a JJ2 before that? A LC2?) but easily the weakest of the 3 so far for me.

 

 

Spoiler

Pretty much agreed with everything you wrote.  Diamondback sucked.  The character was nonsensical, his connection to Luke was stupid and unnecessary, and the actor played him like he was Sho Nuff (the Shogun of Harlem) from Barry Gordy's The Last Dragon.  Also, how many times did someone have the drop on him only to get shot in turn by his incredibly slow double pistol draw?  Lame.  

And that final fight was embarrassingly awful (punch him in his exposed jaw!!!!!).  I covered my face in shame when the crowd started chanting "Luke" like it was Rocky V.

Anyway, this show was awesome in the first 7 episodes.  Cottonmouth was fantastic, but they killed him off right after the backstory reveal that could have put him over the top as a villain.  What's worse is that they did it to bring Mariah to the forefront, and then did nothing with her.  

Not that the last six eps were all bad.  Claire, Misty's arc, Shades, the neighborhood bullet riddled hoodie angle, and Method Man, of course.

 

[red snow]

Episode one and two were good. I like how the show is taking its time - everything is feeling deliberate and not rushed. It also oozes style. For some strange reason the show really reminds me of boardwalk empire - i think it's possibly because the sets look familiar and there's an "out of time" feeling about the characters there. That and the music halls - that club could almost be the one used in boardwalk.

It doesn't have me hooked quite yet but that's because they haven't provided a strong narrative thrust yet. While the villains are interesting characters I'm not yet clear on how they will be a threat. Shades has yet to do anything but I'm hoping it'll be important when he does.