PetyrPunkinhead Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 On 10/7/2016 at 5:44 PM, polishgenius said: The show had a real problem with backstories and flashbacks in general. Had no sense on when to do it, so it just shoved them in just before they became directly relevant. Really poor work on that particular score. Hide contents Like, for me, simply moving the boxing scene between Willis and Carl from the beginning of the final episode to the beginning of the first one would have been a huge first step to fixing a lot of that problem. I don't think we needed to see Diamondback interact directly with Cage, but we should have seen him earlier, behaving like the smooth, competent operator he must have been to get to where he is, so that when he realises that Carl is back and goes crazy we actually see the break, rather than just being introduced to this untrustworthy psycho as is. I agree with you about the need for more flashbacks of Luke & Willis earlier in the season. But I think the show writers were going for an air of mystery about Luke. And then they peeled the layers about him slowly away. Problem was it was a bit too slowly for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The Diamondback thing didn't really work, but I'm not sure establishing him earlier would have helped. It might have just been obvious that Willas was going to come back later as the mysterious villain. I think maybe they were trying to avoid that. Mainly my problem with Diamondback was the "I am the architect of all your pain" bullshit. He really didn't need to be the one who'd framed Carl and sent him to Seagate. Then he leaves Georgia and somehow ends up as an arms dealer running Harlem and Cage ends up there. It's a little much. Personally I probably would have combined Diamonback with Cage's prison buddy (Scabbers or something?) only they lied to Cage about his death and he really went through the same procedure. So he felt abandoned by Cage and maybe the procedure drove him a little batty. Then you could have Cottonmouth use the Judas bullets to be more of a thread and Diamondback would just have powers like Cage's. This way you avoid the suit that looked like it belonged on an early season of Star Trek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Haha, that scene where Diamondback kills the cop with his super gloves. "I'm Luke Cage!" All it needed was a moustache twirl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 hour ago, RumHam said: The Diamondback thing didn't really work, but I'm not sure establishing him earlier would have helped. It might have just been obvious that Willas was going to come back later as the mysterious villain. I think maybe they were trying to avoid that. I think they were just trying to go for Daredevil's WIlson Fisk effect where he talked about in hushed whispers for five episodes before we saw him. And if they were trying to avoid it, they went far too far the other way. The tension between Cage and Cottonmouth, which didn't exist before the show started, was far more convincingly personal than the supposed deep history of the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 So cool how they had one of the henchmen call Claire night nurse during that one scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, polishgenius said: The tension between Cage and Cottonmouth, which didn't exist before the show started, was far more convincingly personal than the supposed deep history of the other two. Agreed. I think this is because the issue between them fit in with the Harlem setting and its themes. This is what it did best, rooting itself in social issues. Diamondback took the story away from that and made it feel less engaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 54 minutes ago, Astromech said: Haha, that scene where Diamondback kills the cop with his super gloves. "I'm Luke Cage!" All it needed was a moustache twirl. I know people will call it silly to complain about such a thing in a superhero show, but anyway: those gloves pissed me off. What do they do? Do they pull your arm along with them far faster than you can punch, and probably dislocate your arm? Stupid comic book gadget for a stupid comic book villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 4 hours ago, Astromech said: Haha, that scene where Diamondback kills the cop with his super gloves. "I'm Luke Cage!" All it needed was a moustache twirl. I loved later on when Misty is incredulous that someone would murder a cop and then walk away yelling his own name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Luke bitch slapping people is the best thing ever!! He needs to continue his art of bitch slapping well into The Defenders. Him and Jessica just casuallly throwing/slapping people aside is the best thing about their characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 Quote Luke bitch slapping people is the best thing ever!! He needs to continue his art of bitch slapping well into The Defenders. Him and Jessica just casuallly throwing/slapping people aside is the best thing about their characters. That and couch slapping. They got to get JJ in on the furniture assaults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 On 03/10/2016 at 1:13 AM, polishgenius said: I appreciate that they're being said with different intent and to the people saying them there's a clear difference in sound too, but it's also true that for a lot of 'white folk', especially those of us outside America, it simply sounds the same, which is how debates like the original one here spring up in the first place. On 03/10/2016 at 3:26 AM, Relic said: What are you talking about? One word ends with a hard RRRRRR sound, the other doesn't. Our native language is the same and i have zero issues hearing the difference. I find it interesting that polishgenius can't hear it, because it is clear as day to me and I'm very much on the British side of pronunciation and accent. There are some elements of the rhotic vs non-rhotic that really surprised me and made certain American pronunciation make sense when I read about it, but this isn't one of them. Still got a couple of episodes to go so posting from page 3 rather than reading the whole way through first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 On 10/9/2016 at 11:20 PM, The Wolves said: Luke bitch slapping people is the best thing ever!! He needs to continue his art of bitch slapping well into The Defenders. Him and Jessica just casuallly throwing/slapping people aside is the best thing about their characters. That would be a funny contrast to watch in the Defenders. Daredevil and Iron Fist exerting themselves to pull all kinds of martial arts moves to take out the goons, and next to them Luke and Jessica just bitch slapping and throwing people into ceilings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Finished the season last night. I think I'll still go with JJ season 1 as my favourite NMU show thus far. But all the series have been great. I did like the change of pace on this one that it was not an overt super-hero show. I wonder if Spoiler Judas bullets are going to make it out into the wider MCU? Interesting ending, and I wonder if some stuff will be progressed on the sidelines of other shows before Defenders comes out. Spoiler I'm still shipping JJ and Luke long term and hope these shows stick around long enough for them to properly hook up and have a kid. Like what happens in "real life". They have all the players, Luke and Jessica as the parents and Danny Rand as god father and person after whom their daughter is named. On that note, I do hope we see that BFF relationship between Cage and Rand develop over the course of these series. There are only a few characters in this whole extended MCU who are genuine friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I'm thinking that somehow the Hand will have to be involved with the Defenders... if for no other reason than to get DD, JJ, LC, and IF in the same fight scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 The other criticism of the show I have is I think Spoiler Diamond back should have died and Cottonmouth lived on, as it is in the comics. I think Cottonmouth is a much more interesting and nuanced character, whereas Diamondback is just an unhinged crazy eyes loony. For a serious crime to be levelled against Luke Cage Cottonmouth could have just been put into a coma or even be vegetative and on permanent life support. With DB dying in the final episode and Dr whatsisname showing up in Cottonmouth's hospital room right a the end. And I like Cottonmouth's actor more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cephalophore Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Astromech said: I saw that too! It's brilliant. It must have taken a long time for the editor to find all the clips he wanted to use. For example sifting through all the scowls/serious faces in the show to find the relatively few laughing/smiling ones that wouldn't be out of place in an 90s/80s sitcom intro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 On 10/11/2016 at 5:52 AM, karaddin said: I find it interesting that polishgenius can't hear it, because it is clear as day to me and I'm very much on the British side of pronunciation and accent. I don;t get it either, but im just dropping the matter. You can lead a horse to water, and you can't convince some people that two different words are actually two different words. ::shrugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Relic said: I don;t get it either, but im just dropping the matter. You can lead a horse to water, and you can't convince some people that two different words are actually two different words. ::shrugs I think you're misunderstanding the argument - we're clear they're two different words, the question is whether or not they are homophones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 14 minutes ago, Maltaran said: I think you're misunderstanding the argument - we're clear they're two different words, the question is whether or not they are homophones. Eh, we should just drop the argument. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him read the fucking explanation that's been given like five times in the thread. Doubly weird that this insistence on misunderstanding the argument is coming from Relic, who's so well-traveled that he surely must have come across the concept of different languages having different sounds that non-speakers can't necessarily easily recognise or recreate. Which this is similar to, just within variations within English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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