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What should we expect from the Vale?

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13 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

No, Shagga stayed, and Timett left for the Mountains of the Moon.

Bronn in ASOS:

When Sandor tries to take Arya to the Vale for ransom, a villager on the High Road warns them of the danger:

So yeah, whats the point of having these wildlings be more fearsome if nothing comes of it? There is all this talk of carrying off daughters...and Timett also says he's looking for the promise of "silk and steel" when he joins Tyrion so I think he's the one who is going to steal her.

Yeah I suppose whatever changes the show made are just there to speed her along her way to the North faster. I think they just cut out the travelogue chapters from Vale to Wall and replaced it with the Ramsay plot.

Ah thank you for correcting me. I like this a lot. And they would know that Sansa was married to Tyrion? Or at least remember her?

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Realistically, the most astute and asymmetrical action that LF and the Vale could take right now would be to besiege and take Casterly Rock, but I think getting there would be excessively byzantine and convoluted, even for GRRM, so I doubt that will happen. And Sansa's arc doesn't seem to be heading toward her ruling the west anyway. It would require tossing a lot of prep just to go in a new direction. We already have fAegon for that.

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14 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

Ah thank you for correcting me. I like this a lot. And they would know that Sansa was married to Tyrion? Or at least remember her?

Yes, I think so. Like Shadrich after Blackwater, Timett is right there when Tyrion arrives at Joffrey's name day tourney.

Quote

 

“When he lowered her back to the ground, the little man kissed her lightly on the brow and came waddling across the yard toward Joffrey. Two of his men followed close behind him; a black-haired black-eyed sellsword who moved like a stalking cat, and a gaunt youth with an empty socket where one eye should have been” - Sansa, ACOK

 

He's also there when Boros is beating her in the throne room:

Quote

 

“Is this your notion of chivalry, Ser Boros?” Tyrion Lannister demanded angrily. His pet sellsword stood with him, and one of his wildlings, the one with the burned eye. “What sort of knight beats helpless maids?” - Sansa, ACOK

 

And they take her back to the Tower of the Hand, where Tyrion tries to get them to guard her but she declines. I think she would recognize Timett right away, but he might not recognize her at first because her hair is darker. However, she would know some details that only Sansa would know - and hopefully they wouldn't want to harm the wife of the man who helped them.

I'm spitballing a lot here but I think its more interesting than her being a sex kitten in the Vale and seducing Littlefinger  :ack:

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Yes, I think so. Like Shadrich after Blackwater, Timett is right there when Tyrion arrives at Joffrey's name day tourney.

He's also there when Boros is beating her in the throne room:

And they take her back to the Tower of the Hand, where Tyrion tries to get them to guard her but she declines. I think she would recognize Timett right away, but he might not recognize her at first because her hair is darker. However, she would know some details that only Sansa would know - and hopefully they wouldn't want to harm the wife of the man who helped them.

I'm spitballing a lot here but I think its more interesting than her being a sex kitten in the Vale and seducing Littlefinger  :ack:

I don t think it makes any sense for sansa to leave the vale. We need to know what is going on in the vale and what side they are going to join (the north and riverlands, faegon, danny or cersei). We can t know these things if we lose our vale pov…

I think grrm's idea for sansa is for her to mirror arya's noone problems and in the end regain her identity and kill LF. And this all makes much more sense if she stays in the vale and out manouvers LF becoming a leader figure in the vale and using the vale to help her family (jon or rickon) saving the north. Introducing sansa to the north storyline at this point doesn t make any sense (we already have jon and a true stark (rickon)). 

11 hours ago, Three-Fingered Pete said:

Realistically, the most astute and asymmetrical action that LF and the Vale could take right now would be to besiege and take Casterly Rock, but I think getting there would be excessively byzantine and convoluted, even for GRRM, so I doubt that will happen. And Sansa's arc doesn't seem to be heading toward her ruling the west anyway. It would require tossing a lot of prep just to go in a new direction. We already have fAegon for that.

That doesn t make any sense. LF isn t anouncing himself publicly as an enemy of the lannisters. He has harrenhall and is in charge of the vale because of the lannisters…

The most logical action's LF can have right now is to marry sansa to harrold and kill sweetrobin so that he can keep a position of power as the father of the wife of the lord of the vale. This is the only possible action LF can even make beside using Money to buy more lords loyalties...

And I think sansa's 5 or 6 chapters (she doesn t usualy have more than that) can be very interesting if we see a political game between the royces and LF and sansa's transformation from alayne to sansa stark ending up in foiling LF schemes and the royces and becoming sweetrobin representative or a person that can influence harrold to do as she wishes (with grrm both scenarios are very possible)

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28 minutes ago, divica said:

I don t think it makes any sense for sansa to leave the vale. We need to know what is going on in the vale and what side they are going to join (the north and riverlands, faegon, danny or cersei). We can t know these things if we lose our vale pov…

I think grrm's idea for sansa is for her to mirror arya's noone problems and in the end regain her identity and kill LF. And this all makes much more sense if she stays in the vale and out manouvers LF becoming a leader figure in the vale and using the vale to help her family (jon or rickon) saving the north. Introducing sansa to the north storyline at this point doesn t make any sense (we already have jon and a true stark (rickon)). 

I dont think she can be a leader in the Vale for several reasons: neither her mother or father were leaders there, it's not her home, she constantly thinks and dreams of WF, it's dangerous for her there with all the lies Littlefinger forced her to use, and this 13 year old girl is not going to be able to take down - all by herself - the political mastermind who fooled Tywin and Tyrion. She will need help from her siblings, and that means she can out maneuver LF later; it doesnt have to be in the Vale. I think the prophecy of her killing a giant in a castle made of snow points to her doing it in Winterfell anyway.

Instead of spending time in a place that is her prison I'd rather she spend time becoming a leader/Lady of Winterfell, because she is not only the most capable over Bran or Rickon at the moment, she's also the one most likely to be the Lady (as in, female Lord) because of her direwolf. 

I really hope Arya and Sansa will switch in Winds. While Arya has reached a place of stability Sansa would start in a travelogue. This is good for her arc--far better than playing sex games with her "father." Like I said the princess in the tower trope is very strong with her, but if she never leaves the tower and never interacts with people outside the nobility or the servants in her household she's going to be an ineffective ruler/leader. Littlefinger is keeping her sheltered and feeding her elaborate lemon cakes - this smacks of Marie Antoinette. The longer she stays there living the charmed privileged life, the longer she's cut off/removed from the Northern lifestyle, to her detriment. 

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On 8/12/2017 at 10:43 PM, LordImp said:

I feal that Sansas Vale storyline is the hardest story to predict because it can go in so many directions .

- Will Sansa just stay in the Vale and learning how to play the game?  That's HBO's fan fiction.  

- Will Sansa take the KOTV North? Or will Littlefinger use them to get controll over the Riverlands?  Sansa won't make it out of the Eyrie alive.  

- Will the mountain clans attack ?  They might after they get turned to wights.

- Will Mad mouse kidnap Sansa?  No

- What to expect from Harry the heir? Is a evil prick who will rape Sansa?  

- Will Sweetrobin die? No

- Lyn Corbray , what will he do?  Nothing

- Will the vale lords turn on LF?  They will turn on both Sansa and LF.

- What will happen at the tourney?

- How will the Vale react to other events in the realm such as Aegons campaign ? 

Taking this questions into consideration where will the Vale storyline lead?  To winter.  The long night.

 

 

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5 hours ago, divica said:

That doesn t make any sense...

 

I said realistically, not literarily, which is why I am not going to bother explaining why I think it's such a good idea. Suffice it to say that given the current situation and what is likely to happen in the near future, if it paid off, it would be a good long game move for the Vale (LF too).

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On 1/23/2019 at 12:07 AM, Rose of Red Lake said:

As much as I hate this theory it's becoming more likely to me, especially if she needs to have words with Cersei again. I dont see Cersei going up there, I see Sansa going down to KL - and we know she's not going to do that unless forced.

I know; back when people here on Westeros were talking about Sansa's arc going back to Kings Landing after her last published book chapter (prior to the Winds Alayne chapter), I really didn't like it, and hoped it wasn't where her story was going.  After the show took her from the Vale early, I hoped it meant that the return to KL was a false flag.  But the hints of a kidnap plot in S7 made me convinced that it was going to happen.  The fact that people, prior to the show, found foreshadowing in the books, and then show waters who aren't book readers, could see hints from S7 (and independent of each other/not influenced by the other form of storytelling) both saw that her story was going to be captured again in KL, convinces me that this is where GRRM intends her story to go eventually.

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On 1/26/2019 at 8:28 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

I'm spitballing a lot here but I think its more interesting than her being a sex kitten in the Vale and seducing Littlefinger  :ack:

I think almost anything is more interesting for her than this!

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 8:10 AM, willowbark said:

I know; back when people here on Westeros were talking about Sansa's arc going back to Kings Landing after her last published book chapter (prior to the Winds Alayne chapter), I really didn't like it, and hoped it wasn't where her story was going.  After the show took her from the Vale early, I hoped it meant that the return to KL was a false flag.  But the hints of a kidnap plot in S7 made me convinced that it was going to happen.  The fact that people, prior to the show, found foreshadowing in the books, and then show waters who aren't book readers, could see hints from S7 (and independent of each other/not influenced by the other form of storytelling) both saw that her story was going to be captured again in KL, convinces me that this is where GRRM intends her story to go eventually.

If Sansa returns to King's Landing against her will, I don't think it will happen until Dream. Because a return to King's Landing now completely interrupts her story and puts her in terrible danger considering that the Tyrells and Cersei are still there. However, if she is taken back to King's Landing while Aegon and Arianne are in power, Sansa's chances improve considerably.

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Sweetrobin will live. I highly doubt that Sansa will be successfully kidnapped. I'm expecting LF to try and take over the riverlands as he currently has Sweetrobin, who has the best claim to the Tully seat after Edmure who is incapacitated and the Stark kids who are presumed dead. As for the North situation, I'm unsure if the Vale will actually join the fight. I hope they will, if nothing else just for the chance to see LF and Stannis interact.

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Posted (edited)

Based on previous, and key moment, scenes I would say I am 85% sure that The Vale and Sansa's storyline will revolve around the Mountain Clansman and Sansa will most likely play the mediator for both the Vale men and Clansmen. Not only does this go in line with Sansa's arc that is primarily about politics, but it also gives her proper character development. On top of that, by making Sansa successfully accomplish something that no one else has done allows her to gain what Little Finger never did, get trust from the Vale, which furthers the plotline of Little Finger's impending doom. 

I know that some of you might think that this storyline is farfetched, but it's highly likely that GRRM has been putting the seeds for this plotline back in ACOK. After the very gruesome scene of Sansa being beaten black and blue by the Kingsguard GRRM makes sure that Sansa meets Timett and Chella. Why would he do that? There's no reason for Sansa to meet these characters. Unless it is to set up the storyline of Sansa being involved in Vale Politics. 

 

Edited by Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted (edited)

The LF fan in me would love to think that he manages to convince the KOV to invade the Riverlands in Robert's name but it's clear from what I have read he's losing control of the situation over there.Sansa talking them into going to WF seems likely.

Edited by M.Alhazred

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My (incomplete) theory at this point is that

1) Harry will die. LF will have (little)fingers in his death.

2) LF will or will try to arrange the marriage of Sansa and fAegon. With the combined armies of the Vale and fAegon, they will attack the Riverlands and LF gets the real power as the lord of Harrenhall.

3) Sweetrobin will die at some point. His death will be directly caused by LF who orders the maester to give even more sweetsleep to SR. It is mentioned in the books somewhere that sweetsleep doesn't leave the body, so I suppose that the sweetsleep in SR's body will cumulate to this point it kills him. LF eventually finds out that SR was in fact his son and that he caused the death of his own child. No idea how LF will handle the situation when both Harry and SR are dead.

4) Sansa will cause LF's fall (not sure if it will be death, or not) using the tricks and schemes what she learnt from him.

Now I'm getting into really wild speculations :

5) Sansa will get pregnant by fAegon or by Harry. One or another, the father of the child will die and LF will try to marry Sansa himself to 1) get Sansa, 2) send a big FU to the Starks and the Tullys, 3) control the heir of Vale / fAegon's army.

6) LF will get on the Iron Throne or very very close to it at some point.

7) As Sansa grows older and experienced in politics, she takes the (Vale?) army to the North to defeat the Boltons and reclaim Winterfell.

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There will be a civil war inside the Riverlands provoked by Petyr and the Vale. Which will lead to a partitioning of the Riverlands. Most of it will go to the Vale, with a little to the Westerlands. The Vale might even take the Twins.

The Vale will NOT go to the North.

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Sansa is going to have to be one of the most prolific POVs in The Winds of Winter. There's a lot going on in the Vale right now and a lot needs to happen before Sansa ends up in Winterfell. And considering that I think Sansa's return to Winterfell will happen in The Winds of Winter instead of A Dream of Spring, that means GRRM has a lot of work to do.

I'm beginning to feel a little bad for him. He should've left the one Sansa chapter he made for A Dance with Dragons alone; maybe even included another one. It wouldn't have killed him or the binding.

On 4/14/2019 at 11:18 PM, Queen Sansa Stark said:

Based on previous, and key moment, scenes I would say I am 85% sure that The Vale and Sansa's storyline will revolve around the Mountain Clansman and Sansa will most likely play the mediator for both the Vale men and Clansmen. Not only does this go in line with Sansa's arc that is primarily about politics, but it also gives her proper character development. On top of that, by making Sansa successfully accomplish something that no one else has done allows her to gain what Little Finger never did, get trust from the Vale, which furthers the plotline of Little Finger's impending doom. 

I know that some of you might think that this storyline is farfetched, but it's highly likely that GRRM has been putting the seeds for this plotline back in ACOK. After the very gruesome scene of Sansa being beaten black and blue by the Kingsguard GRRM makes sure that Sansa meets Timett and Chella. Why would he do that? There's no reason for Sansa to meet these characters. Unless it is to set up the storyline of Sansa being involved in Vale Politics. 

 

I like this; especially the part about Sansa being a mediator between the Valemen and the clansmen. Don't the clansmen worship the old gods? It doesn't make sense to me how Sansa is able to charm and curtsey herself into becoming an influential voice for such a vulgar warrior people. But they are nowhere near as misogynistic as mainstream Andal-influenced Westerosi culture...if they are particularly religious, then Sansa does get a bit of a leg-up.

Interesting to see this happen.

I forgot all about Sansa meeting Chella and Timett in Clash.

On 4/24/2019 at 4:44 AM, M.Alhazred said:

The LF fan in me would love to think that he manages to convince the KOV to invade the Riverlands in Robert's name but it's clear from what I have read he's losing control of the situation over there.Sansa talking them into going to WF seems likely.

Littlefinger has never had control of the situation in the Riverlands. When was the last time he was in the Riverlands? The tourney of Harrenhal? Brandon and Catelyn's engagement party?

No matter the case, Littlefinger certainly has never set foot in Harrenhal because he -- being the Lord of Harrenhal -- fears the curse.

7 hours ago, Shpati said:

There will be a civil war inside the Riverlands provoked by Petyr and the Vale. Which will lead to a partitioning of the Riverlands. Most of it will go to the Vale, with a little to the Westerlands. The Vale might even take the Twins.

The Vale will NOT go to the North.

I'm of the school of thought that believes Petyr Baelish wrote the Pink Letter in an attempt to turn the Night's Watch against both Stannis and the Northmen. The ensuing chaos will make his power grab in the North via Sansa easy.

So while agree with you on account of Petyr possibly provoking war in the Riverlands too, I don't think he has to. Between the impending famine, the first signs of civil war within House Frey and the activities of the Brotherhood, the Riverlands are falling apart all by themselves.

I definitely disagree on the Vale not going North. Why don't you believe they will go north.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I like this; especially the part about Sansa being a mediator between the Valemen and the clansmen. Don't the clansmen worship the old gods? It doesn't make sense to me how Sansa is able to charm and curtsey herself into becoming an influential voice for such a vulgar warrior people. But they are nowhere near as misogynistic as mainstream Andal-influenced Westerosi culture...if they are particularly religious, then Sansa does get a bit of a leg-up.

Interesting to see this happen.

I forgot all about Sansa meeting Chella and Timett in Clash.

I forgot to mention. Some of these mountain clansmen had been present during Sansa's wedding with Tyrion. If she would meet them it's highly likely some of them know she's married to Tyrion and would know not to do something with her. If you think about it Sansa IS the perfect person to be the diplomat for both the Vale and Clansmen. To the Vale, she would be Ned's daughter and the distant niece of Yohn Royce and to the Mountain Clansmen, she would be their benefactor's wife. 

However, with that said. There's also the possibility that Sansa's TWOW storyline can go in a completely different direction. In her very last AFFC chapter she learns that Jon has become the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and she does sense Jon's death when she descends from the Eyrie. Plus the way her TWOW chapter ends is very ominous. Her identity as Sansa Stark could be exposed thanks to a failed kidnapping attempt and that forces her to flee the Vale and go to Castle Black in hope that Jon will keep her safe. In many ways, Sansa's storyline is very hard to predict. Personally, I am more in favor of the latter scenario. Right now, what Sansa needs the most is someone who she can trust and rely on unconditionally and Jon could provide that to her. In return, Sansa would give Jon the purpose he needs to keep going after he's resurrected.  

Edited by Queen Sansa Stark

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1 hour ago, Queen Sansa Stark said:

I forgot to mention. Some of these mountain clansmen had been present during Sansa's wedding with Tyrion. If she would meet them it's highly likely some of them know she's married to Tyrion and would know not to do something with her. If you think about it Sansa IS the perfect person to be the diplomat for both the Vale and Clansmen. To the Vale, she would be Ned's daughter and the distant niece of Yohn Royce and to the Mountain Clansmen, she would be their benefactor's wife. 

However, with that said. There's also the possibility that Sansa's TWOW storyline can go in a completely different direction. In her very last AFFC chapter she learns that Jon has become the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and she does sense Jon's death when she descends from the Eyrie. Plus the way her TWOW chapter ends is very ominous. Her identity as Sansa Stark could be exposed thanks to a failed kidnapping attempt and that forces her to flee the Vale and go to Castle Black in hope that Jon will keep her safe. In many ways, Sansa's storyline is very hard to predict. Personally, I am more in favor of the latter scenario. Right now, what Sansa needs the most is someone who she can trust and rely on unconditionally and Jon could provide that to her. In return, Sansa would give Jon the purpose he needs to keep going after he's resurrected.  

Jon's death...or Jon's second birth?

I find it amazing that she was able to sense that.

I can't wait for Sansa's skinchanging powers to emerge. That's why I think she will become the new Lady Arryn. So she can start warging birds and use them to spy on, distract and attack people. Skinchanging may be Sansa's key to success among the Vale wildlings.

Don't forget that the Gates of the Moon has a weirwood in its godswood; the first weirwood Sansa will have seen since she left Winterfell. Bran might help her open her third eye

I hate that Sansa is married to Tyrion but I can't help but respect GRRM for not brushing it under the rug.

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On 1/26/2019 at 7:28 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

Yes, I think so. Like Shadrich after Blackwater, Timett is right there when Tyrion arrives at Joffrey's name day tourney.

He's also there when Boros is beating her in the throne room:

And they take her back to the Tower of the Hand, where Tyrion tries to get them to guard her but she declines. I think she would recognize Timett right away, but he might not recognize her at first because her hair is darker. However, she would know some details that only Sansa would know - and hopefully they wouldn't want to harm the wife of the man who helped them.

I'm spitballing a lot here but I think its more interesting than her being a sex kitten in the Vale and seducing Littlefinger  :ack:

Or she gets recognized by a savage, and SweetRobin demands his cousin for a wife and gets her

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