US Politics : And the Finer Art of Grumbling

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Meanwhile in the not so serious and kind of funny news:

The truth behind Trump’s hair comb over is partially revealed.

Trump faith adviser says we don’t need flu shots during one of the worst flu seasons. No, we need God and Jesus.

[Week]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Meanwhile in the not so serious and kind of funny news:

The truth behind Trump’s hair comb over is partially revealed.

This is all that I can think of...

[karaddin]

17 hours ago, IamMe90 said:

You have to take anything Loki says about democrats with the smallest grain of salt imaginable. Pretty much everything within this realm is beyond hyperbole, to put it mildly. 

If you go back a few years and look at what he was predicting for 2016 I think it's hard not to see this characterisation as more than a little uncharitable. Yes, Loki fears for the worst outcome, but over the last couple of years that's pretty much what we've gotten. I don't think he deserves this disparagement.

[Mexal]

Don't donate money to Dworkin. It's a con.

 

[IamMe90]

32 minutes ago, karaddin said:

If you go back a few years and look at what he was predicting for 2016 I think it's hard not to see this characterisation as more than a little uncharitable. Yes, Loki fears for the worst outcome, but over the last couple of years that's pretty much what we've gotten. I don't think he deserves this disparagement.

If anyone is being uncharitable in their characterizations, it is the one who adopts the position that the official strategy of a mainstream political party is to systematically lose elections. I didn't say his doom and gloom is unwarranted generally (I don't think it is), but his views on the Democratic Party are hyperbolic. 

[Yukle]

3 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

The overwhelming majority, I would argue, don't know what he stands for. Or rather, they've become convinced that the Democrats stand for something worse. Most are uneducated, and have been having poison poured into their ears by Fox news for decades. Remember, Republican judges blocked the Muslim ban, Republicans in Congress voted to save O-Care, and one of them donated to the Doug Jones campaign. And Robert Muller, another Republican, is currently the Great Liberal Hope until November.

Republicans voted nearly unanimously to repeal the ACA. Democrats voted to keep it.

To claim people don’t know what he stands for is utter garbage. His past, including criminal trials for racist hotel policies, his bankrupt conduct, his willingness to accept KKK help, his admiration of Putin, his perverse sexuality like watching women strip at Miss America - all of these were widely known.

Republicans didn’t care. In fact, they actively wanted this. Despite the warnings about the military briefings being leaked where he repeatedly asked about using nuclear weapons, they wanted him. And the rest of the world utterly curses their stupidity and selfishness.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Week said:

This is all that I can think of...

Spot on. It’s kind of an odd balding pattern though.

……………………………………………………

On an unrelated note, I wonder if these new texts will be problematic for Obama and the Mueller investigation.

[Mexal]

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Spot on. It’s kind of an odd balding pattern though.

……………………………………………………

On an unrelated note, I wonder if these new texts will be problematic for Obama and the Mueller investigation.

No. It's another report that a simple google search will destroy.

1. Fox News claims that Obama wanted to be briefed on Clinton investigation.

2. Fox News bases this on text messages from Page to Strzok that says "Potus wants to know everything we're doing"

3. Texts were sent on 9/2/2016.

Two major issues here. 

1. The Clinton email investigation was closed in July

2. The new emails found on Weiner's computer were found on 9/28/16.

So what would Obama want a briefing on that would involve Page when the Clinton investigation was closed? How about a counter intelligence investigation currently ongoing as Russia interferes in our election?

This shit is so stupid yet this whole text message thing is already massively amplified, shared and re-shared based on bullshit. This is the "secret society" all over again.

[Zorral]

I know this forum's subject is US politics, but politics aren't government and it's government that these people are termiting to rapid collapse, and we aren't looking and the news media aren't covering it, becuase the constant relentless WH shenanigans and tweets and all the other chaos demon's bs keeps them hot and bothered.  But the real evil is going on behind that, and nobody's actually reporting.

This guy does though: David Cay Johnston.  His latest book his It's Even Worse Than You Think, which documents everything these evilcrats have accomplished so far -- all of which affect all of us.

http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Its-Even-Worse-Than-You-Think/David-Cay-Johnston/9781501174162

http://www.chicagonow.com/litzyditz/2018/01/its-even-worse-than-you-think-is-the-book-you-need-to-read/

 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Meanwhile in the not so serious and kind of funny news:

The truth behind Trump’s hair comb over is partially revealed.

Trump faith adviser says we don’t need flu shots during one of the worst flu seasons. No, we need God and Jesus.

Next up to deal with the worst flu season in decades, while praying, killi Jewish children, because their parents poisoned the wells, er water reservoirs, and made the plague.  And don't forget to purge all the bastards and all the unmarried women -- and the gays, don't forget teh Gays! -- that takes care of epidemics you betcha!

[Kalbear]

I think we should have a parade celebrating the victory of the North over the southern traitors. 

On MLK day.

[Kalbear]

4 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

The overwhelming majority, I would argue, don't know what he stands for. Or rather, they've become convinced that the Democrats stand for something worse. Most are uneducated, and have been having poison poured into their ears by Fox news for decades. Remember, Republican judges blocked the Muslim ban, Republicans in Congress voted to save O-Care, and one of them donated to the Doug Jones campaign. And Robert Muller, another Republican, is currently the Great Liberal Hope until November.

No. 40% of the US population approves of Trump. Of that group, fully 82% of Republicans approve of him. 

Most of them have drunk the kool-aid because if they didn't, they couldn't remain a Republican in name. And they are, and they do, and therefore they're now happy. They don't like certain parts of things, but they downplay those and accept or cheer the rest.

Use facts, not feelings. 40% of all Americans approve of Trump. 82% of Republicans do. 

 

[Prince of the North]

11 hours ago, ants said:

Um, not to nitpick.  But that isn't a perceived loss of preeminence.  It is a real loss.  I'm not saying that 100% it's a zero-sum game, but they are certainly losing power and position due to this.  I think most would say that's a secondary effect to our primary goal of making things fairer, but it is an effect.  One we don't really talk about much on the left.

To be clear, I think taking them down and making it fair is totally right.  Stopping them being able to stomp over minorities and make people second class citizens is all good in my book. 

And of course those on the right in power have their sphincters all clenched up over the prospect of losing power due to simple projection.  They're deathly afraid they'll be subjected to the same treatment they've been dishing out for so long.  To them it really is a zero sum game - that's their worldview.

33 minutes ago, Mexal said:

No. It's another report that a simple google search will destroy.

1. Fox News claims that Obama wanted to be briefed on Clinton investigation.

2. Fox News bases this on text messages from Page to Strzok that says "Potus wants to know everything we're doing"

3. Texts were sent on 9/2/2016.

Two major issues here. 

1. The Clinton email investigation was closed in July

2. The new emails found on Weiner's computer were found on 9/28/16.

So what would Obama want a briefing on that would involve Page when the Clinton investigation was closed? How about a counter intelligence investigation currently ongoing as Russia interferes in our election?

This shit is so stupid yet this whole text message thing is already massively amplified, shared and re-shared based on bullshit. This is the "secret society" all over again.

Hey, never letting the "But...but...her emails!!!" chorus subside was rewarded.  Why not keep hammering on these texts as much as possible?  No one knows better than them that it's not what you know but what you can "prove".  And they know full well that perception is reality so they'll try to get people to believe whatever spin they can.  As has been said above, Trump views everything like a reality TV show and is nothing but "image" (which is nice way of saying he's all "illusion" - right down to that ridiculous hair).  No wonder he wants a military parade in his honor!  He's feeling a little insecure and needs to project strength, dammit (all while there are visions of Joseph Stalin dancing in his head)!

[Kalbear]

6 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

What are you saying "no" to? I never said that only a minority of Republicans support Trump. I said that the majority condemned the Nazi rally last year, and that the majority of Republican voters are uneducated and semi-brainwashed to the point where I really don't think they get what he is and what he represents. If you socialize in a bubble, as many Trumpsters do, haven't been to college, and all that you watch is Conservative media, you are living on another planet.

EDIT: I also wanna point out that we have our predominantly Republican-staffed intelligence agencies to thank for a lot of the more damning leaks that have come out of the White House since Trump took office.

I think that the majority did not condemn the Nazi rally. The majority of Republicans are brainwashed into thinking that Trump is exactly what they want. I think that what you're trying to say is that if they knew the truth, they'd turn away from him in droves, but the evidence is that they know the truth and are just fine with it. They rationalize the parts they don't think are quite right, they think that BLM is a terrorist group, they think that we need to kick out the undocumented immigrants, they think we are plagued by MS-13. This isn't a small minority; this is pretty much every one of them. 

They might be living on another planet, but they're remarkably consistent in their beliefs on planet Fox. And there's no real evidence that most of them don't believe in what Trump does and what he represents. Again, 82% of Republicans approve of him. 

[Ormond]

9 hours ago, mormont said:

The question surely is: why is a Nazi able to represent them? Is he a member of the Republican party? If so, why can they not expel him? Has the Republican party taken any steps to try to prevent his candidacy?

If they're not trying to stop him, they're tolerating him, and that is a legitimate criticism of the Illinois Republican party as a whole.  

They can't expel him because being a "member" of a party in the USA is not something one can be expelled from. In states that have voter registration by party, all you have to do is go to the government registrar and say you are a member of that party and that means you ARE for purposes of voting and running in primaries. The party apparatus, no matter which party you are talking about, has no way to prevent someone from running.

They can and should pass resolutions condemning him, saying he is not "really" a Republican, and saying people should vote for his Democratic opponent. But they simply cannot do anything else to stop him from running. 

[James Arryn]

18 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Then you're wrong. The House and the Senate unanimously passed a joint resolution calling the murder of Heather Heyer an act of domestic terrorism. It condemned white nationalist groups, and criticized Trump for drawing a false comparison with Leftist counter-protesters. Paul Ryan said that there is no moral relativism when it comes to neo-nazis. John McCain called it an attack on the American people, and said that white nationalism is, by definition, fundamentally opposed to American ideals. Christ, even Ted Cruz came out against it.

No, what I'm saying is that there's a difference between being the kind of asshole who feels personally attacked when a computer asks you to press one for Spanish, and somebody who marches down the street waving a swastika. And that lumping all of the opposition in together with its most toxic elements is exactly what Russian intelligence has been trying to get us to do.

And something else to consider. Even if Democrats take Congress in 2018, and the White House in 2020, Trump's base isn't going anywhere. You get someone a little bit smarter, and a lot more subtle to capture that fear and anger, and we can very easily find ourselves in an even uglier situation. If we want to avoid our electorate turning into a pendulum (and then into a wrecking ball), we need to bring the rational ones around.

I’m tempted to agree with Hamerow’s conclusions on Church/Nazi relations. Even when interrupted by a series of specific objections to specific policies, actual political approval or disapproval is politically demonstrated by a continuation or discontinuation of support for the empowered party as a whole.

Otherwise, to coin his phrase, it’s simply ‘holding your nose’ while continuing to actually enable w/e stinks. And I agree with him that this can be actually be viewed as more reprehensible that the true believers who don’t notice the smell. In this case what it adds up to is people deciding that others suffering empowered racism/sexism/bigotry is a price you are willing to have them pay so you get something you want.

Edit: not you personally, obviously. 

[Kalbear]

32 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Then you're wrong. The House and the Senate unanimously passed a joint resolution calling the murder of Heather Heyer an act of domestic terrorism.

The house and senate have an aggregate approval rating of 18%.

32 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

It condemned white nationalist groups, and criticized Trump for drawing a false comparison with Leftist counter-protesters. Paul Ryan said that there is no moral relativism when it comes to neo-nazis. John McCain called it an attack on the American people, and said that white nationalism is, by definition, fundamentally opposed to American ideals. Christ, even Ted Cruz came out against it.

And let me know how much Cruz and Ryan are popular with Republicans. (hint: they're not). 

32 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

No, what I'm saying is that there's a difference between being the kind of asshole who feels personally attacked when a computer asks you to press one for Spanish, and somebody who marches down the street waving a swastika. And that lumping all of the opposition in together with its most toxic elements is exactly what Russian intelligence has been trying to get us to do.

Again, evidence would be awesome.

32 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

And something else to consider. Even if Democrats take Congress in 2018, and the White House in 2020, Trump's base isn't going anywhere. You get someone a little bit smarter, and a lot more subtle to capture that fear and anger, and we can very easily find ourselves in an even uglier situation. If we want to avoid our electorate turning into a pendulum (and then into a wrecking ball), we need to bring the rational ones around.

When you find some, please do let me know.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Use facts, not feelings. 40% of all Americans approve of Trump. 82% of Republicans do. 

Ok, let's look at those facts.  Here's the Quinnipiac poll that came out today showing Trump with 40% approval with 83% GOP approval.  When we look at approve strongly vs. approve somewhat, 10% "approve somewhat" of Trump - including 18% of Republicans.  So 1 in 4 respondents that approve of Trump express some type of ambivalence (comparatively, "disapprove somewhat" is 8 of 55% disapprove, or ~15%).  Are many of these respondents going to support Trump no matter what?  Sure. 

But it's also true that many of these respondents represent the well-documented Obama-Trump and/or "reluctant" Trump voters we have discussed many times over.  Hell, 17% of Hispanic respondents approve somewhat of Trump.  It's far more likely the vast majority of these respondents are low information voters happy about the current state of the economy than actually agree that "we need to kick out the undocumented immigrants" or "we are plagued by MS-13."  Such respondents are indeed moveable.  To say that among Trump-approvers, "This isn't a small minority; this is pretty much every one of them," paints with far too broad a brush that is, factually, inaccurate.  More importantly, it invites the type of polarizing rhetoric that is destructive, which was @Let's Get Kraken's point.

9 hours ago, mormont said:

The question surely is: why is a Nazi able to represent them? Is he a member of the Republican party? If so, why can they not expel him? Has the Republican party taken any steps to try to prevent his candidacy?

If they're not trying to stop him, they're tolerating him, and that is a legitimate criticism of the Illinois Republican party as a whole.  

 

22 minutes ago, Ormond said:

They can't expel him because being a "member" of a party in the USA is not something one can be expelled from. In states that have voter registration by party, all you have to do is go to the government registrar and say you are a member of that party and that means you ARE for purposes of voting and running in primaries. The party apparatus, no matter which party you are talking about, has no way to prevent someone from running.

They can and should pass resolutions condemning him, saying he is not "really" a Republican, and saying people should vote for his Democratic opponent. But they simply cannot do anything else to stop him from running. 

Yeah as Ormond explains there seems to be a misunderstanding of what the Republican party can do in this case.  As for condemning Jones, they have:

Quote

Tim Schneider, chairman of the Illinois Republican Party, said in a statement to the Sun-Times, “The Illinois Republican Party and our country have no place for Nazis like Arthur Jones. We strongly oppose his racist views and his candidacy for any public office, including the 3rd Congressional District.”

 

[DMC]

6 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I feel compelled to point out that even though it might just be one state representative calling for that solution in Pennsylvania right now, it is entirely logical for Democrats to be extremely concerned about that kind of proposal gaining traction, given that North Carolina just recently went through a very similar scenario.

This is very true, and why we shouldn't ignore it.  Here's a good rundown of how across the country state GOP's are becoming emboldened in their chicanery and delegitimizing.

[Shryke]

1 hour ago, Ormond said:

They can't expel him because being a "member" of a party in the USA is not something one can be expelled from. In states that have voter registration by party, all you have to do is go to the government registrar and say you are a member of that party and that means you ARE for purposes of voting and running in primaries. The party apparatus, no matter which party you are talking about, has no way to prevent someone from running.

They can and should pass resolutions condemning him, saying he is not "really" a Republican, and saying people should vote for his Democratic opponent. But they simply cannot do anything else to stop him from running. 

Yeah, this is the problem for and with the GOP. Parties in the US are actually incredibly weak institutions. It's how the crazies have been taking over.