What is the thing that comes in the night?

[John Suburbs]

11 hours ago, The South Forgets said:

In ASOS Bran recalls a story that Old Nan told him:

What is the thing that comes in the night, and does it have any plot significance, given that all other Old Nan stories in the same chapter have some significance( Rat Cook shows the importance of guest right, 79 sentinels show the seriousness of Northern lords regarding NW, Night's King is Night's King, and the other stories mentioned haven't been elaborated upon)

My take is that this is just Nan's version of the boogie man. You can't tell a good ghost story without some evil, unknown horror lurking in the darkness.

6 hours ago, Megorova said:

If they are wights, then there's no need to chain them. Wights are under control of the Others, so they will follow them willingly.

Not to derail the thread, but I'll just point out that we have yet to see an Other controlling a wight. As a matter of fact, we have not even seen human wights and Others on the page at the same time. The best we have is the Other that Sam, Grenn, et al encountered in the Haunted Forest riding the dead horse. But then he gets off the horse and it apparently shambles away just like any other horse -- no overwhelming compulsion to kill the living, no sign that it is being controlled in any way.

So it's probably, likely, almost definitely true that the wights are in fact thralls to the Others, but this is Martin. I, for one, have been conditioned not to form absolute conclusions until it is spelled out clearly and unambiguously on the page, and even then...  

[Dorian Martell's son]

12 hours ago, The South Forgets said:

In ASOS Bran recalls a story that Old Nan told him:

What is the thing that comes in the night, and does it have any plot significance, given that all other Old Nan stories in the same chapter have some significance( Rat Cook shows the importance of guest right, 79 sentinels show the seriousness of Northern lords regarding NW, Night's King is Night's King, and the other stories mentioned haven't been elaborated upon)

It's a story to scare bran and keep him in line

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, zandru said:

I totally reject the idea that Jojen is being bled and eaten piecemeal - surely, he would have noticed, even if he wasn't a greenseer.

I didn't meant it like that - that they were eating Jojen. Only that he was killed, shortly prior they gave that paste to Bran. And blood and meat from before, are either from the Children, or maybe wights/Coldhands are hunting living people, and the Children make a stew out of those captives.

It's just that I noticed a few suspicious things in Bran's last chapter:

"Under the hill, Jojen brooded, Meera fretted, and Hodor wandered through dark tunnels with a sword in his right hand and a torch in his left. Or was it Bran wandering?

No one must ever know."

"They placed it in the great cavern by the abyss, where the black air echoed to the sound of running water far below."

"Before long he was flying around the cavern, weaving through the long stone teeth that hung down from the ceiling, even flapping out over the abyss and swooping down into its cold black depths."

"Bran’s eyes widened. “They’re going to kill me?”

“No,” Meera said. “Jojen, you’re scaring him.”

“He is not the one who needs to be afraid.”"

"The caves were timeless, vast, silent. They were home to more than three score living singers and the bones of thousands dead, and extended far below the hollow hill. “Men should not go wandering in this place,” Leaf warned them. “The river you hear is swift and black, and flows down and down to a sunless sea. And there are passages that go even deeper, bottomless pits and sudden shafts, forgotten ways that lead to the very center of the earth. Even my people have not explored them all, and we have lived here for a thousand thousand of your man-years.”"

"One day Meera and Jojen decided to go see the river, despite Leaf’s cautions. “I want to come too,” Bran said.

Meera gave him a mournful look. The river was six hundred feet below, down steep slopes and twisty passages, she explained, and the last part required climbing down a rope. “Hodor could never make the climb with you on his back. I’m sorry, Bran.”"

"But after they were gone, he slipped inside Hodor’s skin and followed them."

"As Hodor he explored the caves. He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling. He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak. “Hodor,” Bran said to him, and he felt the real Hodor stir down in his pit."

 

So I think that Bran will find out what happened with Jojen. And then he will warg into Hodor, and use him to escape thru that river, taking his body and Meera (if she's still alive). And probably what Leaf said, that the river leads to a sunless sea underground, is a lie. I think that the river will carry them to those caves, in which Jon and Ygritte were. Children's cave seems to be not far from that place:

" “You’ll stay. The boy must be protected. There is a lake ahead, hard frozen. When you come on it, turn north and follow the shoreline. You’ll come to a fishing village. Take refuge there until I can catch up with you.” "

Rangers passed fishing village, prior they met Ygritte and other wildlings. Bran and Co also passed fishing village, on their way to Children's cave.

ASOS, Jon: "A sinkhole in the center of the floor opened on what might have been an even greater cavern below, though the darkness made it hard to tell. Jon could hear the soft rushing sound of an underground stream somewhere below.

ADWD, Bran II: "The back door is three leagues north, down a sinkhole."

So thru that river, they can go to wildling's cave, and maybe from there, there are also passages that lead to The Wall. I think that Bran exploring Children's caves, in Hodors body, and keeping his warging a secret from everyone, is a hint to what will happen - Bran/Hodor escaping from the Children thru those tunnels/underground river.

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And another possibility is that he could be one of Brynden Rivers' Raven's Teeth that followed him so many years ago. Or that Benjen is older than even that possibility as he was killed "long ago." And, Coldhands is not a typical wight by any means. He is something else and we can speculate to all seven hells and back, but we just don't know. I do agree that his hiding his face is odd, other than the fact that we read over and over again how living brothers also do this, but I am not entirely convinced CH is Benjen based on a few super loose suspicions.

Bran saw many horrible things during his journey north. So for Coldhands not to show his face to Bran, only because it's a bit rotten, isn't convincing. And if that man, whoever he is, is not someone whom Bran may recognize, then there's no point for him to hide his face.

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Great! You suspect Benjen is Coldhands, but he could possibly be someone else because we have no canon confirmation yet.

Yes, I suspect, not KNOW it.

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

George was asked another question or two about why or if it could be Benjen, not just is Coldhands Benjen. George didn't say "keep reading", he said "no". If GRRM had said, "keep reading," or, "that would be telling," or even, "there could be something there," then I would say it was more of an open case.

Anything more, besides a No, could be a too telling hint.

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

No. GRRM was asked by his editor if Coldhands is Benjen he said No.

+

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

But there is no evidence either has undergone an identity change due to this.  

Gandalf the White is not Gandalf the Grey, he's a new entity, though in the same body, and with the same memories.

Though I agree, that we will have to wait for what GRRM will write in the book about Coldhands, to know for sure who he is.

Though it IS possible, just possible, that Coldhands is "Benjen", in a sense that he is a different entity inside Benjen's dead body, and what GRRM said about Coldhands, that he is not Benjen still stands. Those things don't contradict each other. This: "The other wight, the one-handed thing that had once been a ranger named Jafer Flowers, had also been destroyed, cut near to pieces by a dozen swords" - so GRRM did wrote that wights are NOT who they were, when they were a living people.

[White Ravens]

8 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think it's an allusion to this...

 

I agree.  Old Nan was warning Bran to beware of the Bogeyman.

[chrisdaw]

An allusion to some kind of shadow magic Mel will do is my best guess. I think the most important part is that they all saw different things, but I can't think of anything in universe that appears to different people as different things. Shadow baby appeared like a shadow baby to everyone.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The thing that goes bump in the night was not important. There was a trio of tales that were...

I

"There are ghosts here," Bran said. Hodor had heard all the stories before, but Jojen might not have. "Old ghosts, from before the Old King, even before Aegon the Dragon, seventy-nine deserters who went south to be outlaws. One was Lord Ryswell's youngest son, so when they reached the barrowlands they sought shelter at his castle, but Lord Ryswell took them captive and returned them to the Nightfort. The Lord Commander had holes hewn in the top of the Wall and he put the deserters in them and sealed them up alive in the ice. They have spears and horns and they all face north. The seventy-nine sentinels, they're called. They left their posts in life, so in death their watch goes on forever. Years later, when Lord Ryswell was old and dying, he had himself carried to the Nightfort so he could take the black and stand beside his son. He'd sent him back to the Wall for honor's sake, but he loved him still, so he came to share his watch."

Bran IV, Storm 56

The tale of seventy-nine (shouldn't that be nine and seventy?) sentinels suggests that even one's family would not harbor a deserter from the Night's Watch. It also suggests that if you desert in life, your watch will not end in death. Is the author suggesting anything else? One could argue that Jon is like a sentinal. He betrayed his vows (arguably), and now he's been killed for it. If he gets put in an ice cell, we might assume that his watch will not end in death. 

II

After The George gives us the tale of the seventy-nine sentinals, he gives us the tale of the Night's King...

The gathering gloom put Bran in mind of another of Old Nan’s stories, the tale of Night’s King. He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night’s Watch, she said; a warrior who knew no fear. “And that was the fault in him,” she would add, “for all men must know fear.” A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.

He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night’s King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night’s King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.

“Some say he was a Bolton,” Old Nan would always end. “Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down.” She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. “He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room.”

Bran IV, Storm 56

From this tale we see that a watchman set himself up as a king, with his seat at the Nightfort, after he had become ensorceled by a female Other. He sacrificed to the Others, presumably like Craster, and he was eventually brought down by the Lord of Stark and the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Old Nan suggests that there might have been a kinslaying element involved, but as the passage below suggests, this may have just been a flourish for young Bran's entertainment. 

Although the Night's King is referred to in passing a few more times, we don't learn anything else in the novels. Unlike the seventy-nine sentinals, though, we get a little clarification in The World of Ice and Fire...

The oldest of these tales concern the legendary Night’s King, the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, who was alleged to have bedded a sorceress pale as a corpse and declared himself a king. For thirteen years the Night’s King and his “corpse queen” ruled together, before King of Winter, Brandon the Breaker, (in alliance, it is said, with the King-Beyond-the-Wall, Joramun) brought them down. Thereafter, he obliterated the Night’s King’s very name from memory.

In the Citadel, the archmaesters largely dismiss these tales—though some allow that there may have been a Lord Commander who attempted to carve out a kingdom for himself in the earliest days of the Watch. Some suggest that perhaps the corpse queen was a woman of the Barrowlands, a daughter of the Barrow King who was then a power in his own right, and oft associated with graves. The Night’s King has been said to have been variously a Bolton, a Woodfoot, an Umber, a Flint, a Norrey, or even a Stark, depending on where the tale is told. Like all tales, it takes on the attributes that make it most appealing to those who tell it.

The World of Ice and Fire

The ASOIAF character that bears the strongest association to the Night’s King is King Stannis, who will claim the Nightfort as his royal seat soon after Bran recalls Old Nan's tale. He appears have been ensorceled by a pale woman. And although we don't have a connection with the Others, he has sacrificed and made those shadowbabies, and he just might be fixing to sacrifice his daughter. I wonder who will bring him down? 

III

After the the tale of the Night's King, The George gives us the tale of the Rat Cook...

The Rat Cook had cooked the son of the Andal king in a big pie with onions, carrots, mushrooms, lots of pepper and salt, a rasher of bacon, and a dark red Dornish wine. Then he served him to his father, who praised the taste and had a second slice. Afterward the gods transformed the cook into a monstrous white rat who could only eat his own young. He had roamed the Nightfort ever since, devouring his children, but still his hunger was not sated. "It was not for murder that the gods cursed him," Old Nan said, "nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive."

Bran IV, Strom 56

The story tells us that the gods cannot forgive a man who slays a guest beneath his roof, even if he has a right to vengeance. It also sets up Lord Wyman's Frey pies, and it suggests that Wyman will not be satisfied with Rhaegar, Symond, and Jared. 

[Corvo the Crow]

@Lost Melnibonean

Off topic but now that you've brought these tales this bit seems interesting

"Proclaimed her a queen and himself her king" 

We have another case where a man gets his right to the seat(well, supposed to get) through a woman; Whoever marries Val will take Winterfell.

I wonder if there are any connections between the two.

[Seams]

On 3/25/2018 at 3:46 AM, The South Forgets said:

In ASOS Bran recalls a story that Old Nan told him:

A Storm of Swords, Bran -

Or maybe it wasn't Mad Axe at all, maybe it was the thing that came in the night. The 'prentice all saw it, Old Nan said, but afterwards when they told their Lord Commander every description has been different. And three died within the year, and the fourth went mad, and a hundred years later when the thing had come again, the prentice boys were seen shambling along behind it, all in chains

What is the thing that comes in the night, and does it have any plot significance, given that all other Old Nan stories in the same chapter have some significance( Rat Cook shows the importance of guest right, 79 sentinels show the seriousness of Northern lords regarding NW, Night's King is Night's King, and the other stories mentioned haven't been elaborated upon)

My take is close to what The Fattest Leech wrote earlier, that this is a "tale of a tale." This seems to be a figural story, not a literal one. Throughout the books, and particularly with reference to the tales of Old Nan, GRRM gives us a philosophy about story tellers; telling us how to think about history and fiction and folk tales and eye-witness accounts. In interviews, the author has told us that his POV characters are unreliable narrators in many instances, citing Sansa's memory of being kissed by Sandor Clegane - a detail that does not actually occur when The Hound breaks into her bedchamber. We are also shown that Targaryens think of dragons as useful weapons and flying transportation while others see dragons as horrific monsters that eat livestock and children.

GRRM is signalling us here that this is part of the larger story telling motif by telling us that every description by the 'prentice (or, later in the story, plural 'prentice boys) has been different. When you read the World book, the author makes it clear that historical accounts differ because different historians have different motives, audiences, access to details, primary sources, etc. So we have to filter the histories and decide how to think about the events recounted.

As readers, we are also somewhat familiar with the process of becoming a maester - a young man starts out as a novice and earns links to create a chain, signifying mastery of each subject area. People who start out as "prentices" and turn up years later with chains could be a way of describing maesters. As TFL pointed out (see below) Bran immediately thinks about Maester Luwin after thinking about the thing that came in the night. These kinds of juxtapositions are not coincidences in ASOIAF. The author is linking Bran's favorite Maester to this tale.

But I find Luwin a fascinating mystery. My understanding of his interest in magic is that he believed it was real but his own mentors and teachers forced him to adopt the party line of the Citadel, that magic was not real and, if it did exist, it was bad and should be stamped out.

Phrases such as "a hundred years" and "a thousand years" are almost certainly codes meaning "many times." There was a thread a year or two ago that focused on uses of "thousand years" that explored its meaning as a signal for what the participants in the thread called "time loops". The "hundred years" phrase wasn't analyzed in depth, as far as I know, but it may be part of the same coded wording.

We also know that Westeros experienced a dark, cold period called The Long Night.

Putting all these pieces together, my guesses might be that the thing that came in the night was magic or a hero / monster or the passage of time. People who write about it all see something different and tell different stories. You can read the books (written by 'prentices who become maesters) but there will be another go-around for the thing that comes in the night and it will just generate new stories, resulting in more "prentice boys" (storytellers) shambling along behind this historical phenomenon, whatever it might be.

On the other hand, it turns out that the noises Bran hears are really Sam, Gilly and the baby known as Monster. A future maester (prentice) who is also a slayer, a wife of Craster, and a baby-monster-abomination born of incest.

18 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I do find it interesting that Luwin is also thought of in this scene, and Luwin is a bit of a talent suppressor when it comes to Bran and his gift (but that is probably just what Luwin was taught to do as a maester (maybe)).

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

His eyes opened. What was that? He held his breath. Did I dream it? Was I having a stupid nightmare? He didn't want to wake Meera and Jojen for a bad dream, but . . . there . . . a soft scuffling sound, far off . . . Leaves, it's leaves rattling off the walls outside and rustling together . . . or the wind, it could be the wind . . . The sound wasn't coming from outside, though. Bran felt the hairs on his arm start to rise. The sound's inside, it's in here with us, and it's getting louder. He pushed himself up onto an elbow, listening. There was wind, and blowing leaves as well, but this was something else. Footsteps. Someone was coming this way. Something was coming this way.

It wasn't the sentinels, he knew. The sentinels never left the Wall. But there might be other ghosts in the Nightfort, ones even more terrible. He remembered what Old Nan had said of Mad Axe, how he took his boots off and prowled the castle halls barefoot in the dark, with never a sound to tell you where he was except for the drops of blood that fell from his axe and his elbows and the end of his wet red beard. Or maybe it wasn't Mad Axe at all, maybe it was the thing that came in the night. The 'prentice boys all saw it, Old Nan said, but afterward when they told their Lord Commander every description had been different. And three died within the year, and the fourth went mad, and a hundred years later when the thing had come again, the 'prentice boys were seen shambling along behind it, all in chains.

That was only a story, though. He was just scaring himself. There was no thing that comes in the night, Maester Luwin had said so. If there had ever been such a thing, it was gone from the world now, like giants and dragons. It's nothing, Bran thought.

 

[Jon Fossoway]

Sounds like a horror movie reference that George liked.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

3 hours ago, Seams said:

My take is close to what The Fattest Leech wrote earlier, that this is a "tale of a tale." This seems to be a figural story, not a literal one. Throughout the books, and particularly with reference to the tales of Old Nan, GRRM gives us a philosophy about story tellers; telling us how to think about history and fiction and folk tales and eye-witness accounts. In interviews, the author has told us that his POV characters are unreliable narrators in many instances, citing Sansa's memory of being kissed by Sandor Clegane - a detail that does not actually occur when The Hound breaks into her bedchamber. We are also shown that Targaryens think of dragons as useful weapons and flying transportation while others see dragons as horrific monsters that eat livestock and children.

Overall a great point, it’s also worth pointing out that there are dragons and giants despite Lewin’s lectures... so while the truth might be blurry from time and perspective there is likely something too them.

Quote

But I find Luwin a fascinating mystery. My understanding of his interest in magic is that he believed it was real but his own mentors and teachers forced him to adopt the party line of the Citadel, that magic was not real and, if it did exist, it was bad and should be stamped out.

I’ve always loved Lewin and Nan both... great characters!

Lewin crawling to the Weirwood at the end is a great reflection of the student who forged a V-Seel link coming out at the end.

Quote

Putting all these pieces together, my guesses might be that the thing that came in the night was magic or a hero / monster or the passage of time. People who write about it all see something different and tell different stories. You can read the books (written by 'prentices who become maesters) but there will be another go-around for the thing that comes in the night and it will just generate new stories, resulting in more "prentice boys" (storytellers) shambling along behind this historical phenomenon, whatever it might be.

On the other hand, it turns out that the noises Bran hears are really Sam, Gilly and the baby known as Monster. A future maester (prentice) who is also a slayer, a wife of Craster, and a baby-monster-abomination born of incest.

I’d like to propose another option...

Quote

Or maybe it wasn't Mad Axe at all, maybe it was the thing that came in the night. The 'prentice boys all saw it, Old Nan said, but afterward when they told their Lord Commander every description had been different. And three died within the year, and the fourth went mad, and a hundred years later when the thing had come again, the 'prentice boys were seen shambling along behind it, all in chains.

That was only a story, though. He was just scaring himself. There was no thing that comes in the night, Maester Luwin had said so. If there had ever been such a thing, it was gone from the world now, like giants and dragons. It's nothing, Bran thought.

 

 

The thing comes in the night to prentice boys...

The boys can’t agree on what it looked like...

Within a year 3 were dead and one was mad...

They returned in chains...

 

I loved the Maester parallel you presented! But I wanted to offer another option of chains we see:

 

Quote

"You are the winged wolf, Bran," said Jojen. "I wasn't sure when we first came, but now I am. The crowsent us here to break your chains." 

The Three Eyed crow comes in the night... greendreams...

There is much confusion over what/who the three eyed crow is... Bran asks a lot of people if they are the three eyed crow, including the cause of the sound which brought on this bout of story telling.

Quote

 

"The Night's Watch, yes." The fat man was still breathing like a bellows. "I'm a brother of the Watch." He had one cord under his chins, forcing his head up, and others digging deep into his cheeks. "I'm a crow, please. Let me out of this."

Bran was suddenly uncertain. "Are you the three-eyed crow?" He can't be the three-eyed crow. 

"I don't think so." The fat man rolled his eyes, but there were only two of them. "I'm only Sam. Samwell Tarly. Let me out, it's hurting me." He began to struggle again.

 

 

The Three Eyed Crow comes in the night, and the boys can’t agree on what it looks like (not in the dream, as in who is the three eyed crow!) 

Now the story has 4 boys who saw the thing... who has seen the 3ec? Bran, Jojen, and Rickon?

 

One went Mad? Euron?

 

Or in an even broader sense, green dreams come in the night and the boys who see them might disagree over what they’e seen... but in they end they serve the vision/prophesy, wether they meant to or not.

[zandru]

18 hours ago, Megorova said:

I didn't meant it like that - that they were eating Jojen. Only that he was killed, shortly prior they gave that paste to Bran.

I didn't notice any evidence that Jojen was absent (or killed), nor Meera either. Plus, the idea that a white paste with red veins running through it was Jojen doesn't conform with it being meat, human or otherwise.

I disagree with most of your speculations, but the Winds of Winter will give all of us more information when it comes out.

[Megorova]

2 hours ago, zandru said:

I didn't notice any evidence that Jojen was absent (or killed), nor Meera either.

"Hodor carried Bran back to his chamber, muttering “Hodor” in a low voice as Leaf went before them with a torch. He had hoped that Meera and Jojen would be there, so he could tell them what he had seen, but their snug alcove in the rock was cold and empty. Hodor eased Bran down onto his bed, covered him with furs, and made a fire for them. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees.

Watching the flames, Bran decided he would stay awake till Meera came back. Jojen would be unhappy, he knew, but Meera would be glad for him, He did not remember closing his eyes."

They were not there. He waited for them, but they didn't came back. And then he fell asleep.

2 hours ago, zandru said:

Plus, the idea that a white paste with red veins running through it was Jojen doesn't conform with it being meat, human or otherwise.

Human blood, not meat.

"She had a weirwood bowl in her hands, carved with a dozen faces, like the ones the heart trees wore. Inside was a white paste, thick and heavy, with dark red veins running through it. “You must eat of this,” said Leaf. She handed Bran a wooden spoon.

The boy looked at the bowl uncertainly. “What is it?”

“A paste of weirwood seeds.”

Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood."

Also this:

" “Will this make me a greenseer?”

“Your blood makes you a greenseer,” said Lord Brynden. “This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees.”"

And this:

" “Maybe you could be greenseers too,” he said instead.

“No, Bran.” Now Meera sounded sad. “It is given to a few to drink of that green fountain whilst still in mortal flesh, to hear the whisperings of the leaves and see as the trees see, as the gods see,” said Jojen. “Most are not so blessed. The gods gave me only greendreams. My task was to get you here. My part in this is done.” "

So Bran's blood makes him a greenseer, and weirwood paste mixed with blood of another greenseer (Jojen) will help awaken his gifts (with blood), and wed him to a tree (with seeds).

2 hours ago, zandru said:

I disagree with most of your speculations, but the Winds of Winter will give all of us more information when it comes out.

At least in this we do agree.

 

Back to OP - could be that it were the Others, and those chained apprentices, weren't actually chained, could be that their bonds were spiritual/metaphorical. Though I don't think, that Nan's story was just a scary story, and not a legend about actual events. Because all of her other stories, did carried at least some relevant information in them, something important about the past. So the point of this story, is that wights are slaves of the Others, and that they are under their magic control. Thus maybe if someone will kill the Other that "chained" those wights, then those wights will become dead, like dead dead, not walking dead.

[zandru]

6 hours ago, Megorova said:

" “Maybe you could be greenseers too,” he said instead.

“No, Bran.” Now Meera sounded sad. “It is given to a few to drink of that green fountain whilst still in mortal flesh, to hear the whisperings of the leaves and see as the trees see, as the gods see,” said Jojen. “Most are not so blessed. The gods gave me only greendreams. My task was to get you here. My part in this is done.” "

So Bran's blood makes him a greenseer, and weirwood paste mixed with blood of another greenseer (Jojen) will help awaken his gifts (with blood), and wed him to a tree (with seeds).

Your quote betrays you. Jojen is NOT a greenseer, as he has frequently admitted, so eating Jojen's blood isn't going to awaken anything, other than latent cannibalism.

This was from Bran's last chapter in the existing material. We "see" him again via Theon "Reek" Greyjoy, but never again return to Bran's pov. Bran has his weirwood trip, returns to their nest and finds it empty, then falls asleep and trips out again. We get not a hint whether Meera (why would she be killed, too? she doesn't even have green dreams) and Jojen were just off exploring, or sitting by the cave entrance wishing they were home, much less being slaughtered for a few  ml of blood.

I've seen no indication that it takes greenseer cannibalism to awaken these gifts. Being a warg doesn't require eating another warg, after all. But even if it did, the little wise folk of the forest have plenty of their own actual greenseers, in symbiosis with the weirwood roots, who could be tapped for a little bit of blood flavor. Particularly since they consider it so important to turn Bran on.

I'm continuing to reject your theory, but of course, you may believe as you will.

[Leonardo]

Coldhands is one of the 79 sentinels; every part of it fits.

 

"Bound even in death to serve the NW"

The wall's magic is at work. There's also the proximity to his first showing

 

"They killed him long ago"

They being the NW

 

Nothing else fits as well to be sure.

[The Mountain that Cries]

On 3/25/2018 at 4:13 AM, Kandrax said:

 

  Hide contents

JOHN CENA

THIS ALL DAY AND MABYE SOME OF THE NIGHT.

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

13 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

The Three Eyed Crow comes in the night, and the boys can’t agree on what it looks like (not in the dream, as in who is the three eyed crow!) 

Now the story has 4 boys who saw the thing... who has seen the 3ec? Bran, Jojen, and Rickon?

 

One went Mad? Euron?

I think you nailed it.  It is the Night King/3-eyed crow

What if the 3-eyed crow has been broadcasting dreams for a long time to who ever could tune in, he was trying to find Bran but had no way of knowing what year it was or if Bran has even been born yet.  The thousand other dreamers impaled on spikes were those who he reached out to who were not Bran and did not pass the test and died in their sleep.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

On 25/03/2018 at 9:43 PM, Megorova said:

Gandalf the White is not Gandalf the Grey, he's a new entity, though in the same body, and with the same memories.

Though I agree, that we will have to wait for what GRRM will write in the book about Coldhands, to know for sure who he is.

Though it IS possible, just possible, that Coldhands is "Benjen", in a sense that he is a different entity inside Benjen's dead body, and what GRRM said about Coldhands, that he is not Benjen still stands. Those things don't contradict each other. This: "The other wight, the one-handed thing that had once been a ranger named Jafer Flowers, had also been destroyed, cut near to pieces by a dozen swords" - so GRRM did wrote that wights are NOT who they were, when they were a living people.

Gandalf is a character from a different authors story. Notable one whose resurrection as Gandalf the white has been widely criticised by GRRM.   

I think what we have to do when assessing any piece of evidence is look at the source! When the source is the text itself one has to look at context, foreshadowing, themes, previous works, possible inspirations etc etc. When that source is an SSM we have to look at it through the scope of what is he prepared to say, what is he potentially hiding/alluding to. Or what does he give away when he tells us this. Baring in mind that an SSM is usually intended for public consumption, or at least those later ones are. He knows every word he says to someone at a Con will be avidly reported back. The earlier ones where he was replying personally to fans emails in the early days he likely never imagined would be as widely published as they now are! So maybe he was more candid back then? You can see where he gives and answer, or says keep reading etc what his intent usually is. 

Then there is the third category, leaked info which was never intended for public viewing. Such as this.

http://i.imgur.com/FfI1goA.jpg

It is clear from the source that GRRM has no reason at all to be allusive. To mislead, or to evade answering. His editor asked is this Benjen. She even put a smiley face implying she thinks she's worked something out. She gives her reason for thinking so as because Bran never see's his face. GRRM simply answers No. In red pen! In a Circle! The manuscript was never supposed to be seen by anyone but the editor. So we can safely assume that what he answered in it is straight up the truth. 

He even said he was pissed when this came to light and didn't appreciate the library putting it on public display at all.  Implying he's not happy that this mystery has been partially solved. We now know who Coldhands is NOT.  

 

[kissdbyfire]

10 hours ago, zandru said:

I've seen no indication that it takes greenseer cannibalism to awaken these gifts. Being a warg doesn't require eating another warg, after all. But even if it did, the little wise folk of the forest have plenty of their own actual greenseers, in symbiosis with the weirwood roots, who could be tapped for a little bit of blood flavor. Particularly since they consider it so important to turn Bran on.

We have Bloodraven telling Bran it's his blood that makes him a greenseer. And between BR and Leaf, Bran is also told the red and white porridge is a paste of weirwood seeds that will wed him to the trees. 

In other words, he will eat weirwood paste and become one w/ the heart tree(s). He'd only need Jojen's flesh and blood if he were to become one w/ Jojen, which clearly isn't the case. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Gandalf is a character from a different authors story. Notable one whose resurrection as Gandalf the white has been widely criticised by GRRM.   

I think what we have to do when assessing any piece of evidence is look at the source! When the source is the text itself one has to look at context, foreshadowing, themes, previous works, possible inspirations etc etc. When that source is an SSM we have to look at it through the scope of what is he prepared to say, what is he potentially hiding/alluding to. Or what does he give away when he tells us this. Baring in mind that an SSM is usually intended for public consumption, or at least those later ones are. He knows every word he says to someone at a Con will be avidly reported back. The earlier ones where he was replying personally to fans emails in the early days he likely never imagined would be as widely published as they now are! So maybe he was more candid back then? You can see where he gives and answer, or says keep reading etc what his intent usually is. 

Then there is the third category, leaked info which was never intended for public viewing. Such as this.

http://i.imgur.com/FfI1goA.jpg

It is clear from the source that GRRM has no reason at all to be allusive. To mislead, or to evade answering. His editor asked is this Benjen. She even put a smiley face implying she thinks she's worked something out. She gives her reason for thinking so as because Bran never see's his face. GRRM simply answers No. In red pen! In a Circle! The manuscript was never supposed to be seen by anyone but the editor. So we can safely assume that what he answered in it is straight up the truth. 

He even said he was pissed when this came to light and didn't appreciate the library putting it on public display at all.  Implying he's not happy that this mystery has been partially solved. We now know who Coldhands is NOT.  

 

I am just wondering here... but notice that there are two questions... 

"Is this Benjen?"

And...

"Does Bran never recognize him because he never sees his face fully?"

And notice there is only one response from the author... "No."

No maybe, just maybe, the George was only answering the second question...

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

We have Bloodraven telling Bran it's his blood that makes him a greenseer. And between BR and Leaf, Bran is also told the red and white porridge is a paste of weirwood seeds that will wed him to the trees. 

In other words, he will eat weirwood paste and become one w/ the heart tree(s). He'd only need Jojen's flesh and blood if he were to become one w/ Jojen, which clearly isn't the case. 

Totally agree, I'm really not into Jojen paste.