The Expanse #4: Amazon Rising (spoilers for book only up to last episode)

[Corvinus85]

Can't wait. 

[briantw]

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

Weekly release schedule as well. Unsurprising after the success of The Boys, and I suspect Wheel of Time and LotR: The Second Age will follow suit.

Honestly, a show just can't become a pop culture phenomenon without a weekly release.  I thought Game of Thrones might be the last great event show, but with a lot of these streaming services embracing a weekly release schedule, I'll be happy to be wrong.

Personally, I love being able to jump into the topic for The Boys every week and see the theories everyone proposes.  It makes the show more fun to watch.  Game of Thrones was the same way.  Yeah, it horribly crapped its pants down the stretch, but it was still amazingly fun to spend hours debating all sorts of theories surrounding the show.  

[JGP]

Staggered release nixes those who'll sub for a show, binge it, then let it lapse until whenever. Even if they release 3 episodes off the hop, 5 more pushes you into a monthly roll over if you want to watch the finale. Clever.

[DaveSumm]

4 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

Staggered release nixes those who'll sub for a show, binge it, then let it lapse until whenever. Even if they release 3 episodes off the hop, 5 more pushes you into a monthly roll over if you want to watch the finale. Clever.

Honestly, Netflix created this idea of dropping all at once but what was the argument for it? All these things seem obvious, that you’ll get more hype and more subscribers for longer with a weekly schedule. I can’t see any counter arguments for the Netflix model really.

[Heartofice]

Hmm, this is the first season where I will genuinely consider not bothering to watch. Last season was a real let down and a step backwards, which exposed a lot of the shows weaknesses (namely that it doesn't have interesting characters).

To get back on board this year I would want that trailer to get me excited for the direction of the plot. I kind of need the story to get bigger, and more awe inspiring. I want more alien tech and secrets of the universe.

Unfortunately that trailer didn't have very much of that, it really focused in on trying to tell more intimate stories of each of the existing characters (who I don't much care about so thats great) and a sort of civil war scenario that doesn't feel much different to what I've seen before. 

I don' know if future seasons might pick up the pace a bit, but I'm happy to wait.

[The Winged Shadow]

14 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Honestly, Netflix created this idea of dropping all at once but what was the argument for it? All these things seem obvious, that you’ll get more hype and more subscribers for longer with a weekly schedule. I can’t see any counter arguments for the Netflix model really.

To give the consumer what they want? I'd argue the binge-ey ness of their content was a big part of why they became so popular and successful.  People can consume what content they want at whatever pace they want. I am not a fan of weekly releases because I don't particularly care for all the theory crafting (I've done my time goddammit!) and hype building that happens in between.  I consume my tv series like i consume my books, in one goddamn sitting ideally!

Not too happy about things going back to weekly release, but i do understand why it is happening. It definitely won't change my consumption pattern though. It just means I will have to wait a couple of months for everything to release before I sub to a certain streaming service for a certain series.

I have set myself a limit of one streaming service per month. Binge on a streaming service for a month or two, then unsub and move onto the next one. None of these fuckers will get my $15 for 12 months out of principle!

 

[DaveSumm]

2 hours ago, The Winged Shadow said:

To give the consumer what they want?

But who was asking for a model they hadn’t considered might exist? You can still binge stuff when it’s over, exactly as you could before with a DVD. And Netflix was around for a while before they started dropping their own content all at once. It just seems obvious for the get go that a 10 episode season dropped weekly will net you three months of subscription (assuming they’re eager to watch it as early as possible), that’s three months to pick up other shows, to roll from a free trial to a paid subscription, to get comfortable with it and less likely to bother cancelling. I just don’t see what the driving financial incentive behind dropping all at once ever was.

[HexMachina]

Well I'm sold, again. Love the show so it doesn't take much to hook me. I'm fine with the weekly release schedule, I enjoy the sense of anticipation week-to-week. It's equal parts frustrating and exciting for me waiting to see what happens next. 

Also completely disagree that these are weak characters. I love them all, or love to hate them in some cases. They've complicated motivations, real emotional stakes and real personal relationships. And I love love love Averasala (and the actress who plays her).

 

Since I haven't followed the news closely, what happened re: Alex? Do we know how they decided to proceed?

[JGP]

21 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Since I haven't followed the news closely, what happened re: Alex? Do we know how they decided to proceed?

I scrummed around a week ago after I saw the cast tease about what might drop at the Con, which Anvar wasn't a part of [the promo] and which he obviously isn't attending. So, no, nothing yet-- but it's not like they'd drop the bomb before S5 release. My money's on the show's done with him though. 

[Relic]

4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Hmm, this is the first season where I will genuinely consider not bothering to watch. Last season was a real let down and a step backwards, which exposed a lot of the shows weaknesses (namely that it doesn't have interesting characters).

To get back on board this year I would want that trailer to get me excited for the direction of the plot. I kind of need the story to get bigger, and more awe inspiring. I want more alien tech and secrets of the universe.

Unfortunately that trailer didn't have very much of that, it really focused in on trying to tell more intimate stories of each of the existing characters (who I don't much care about so thats great) and a sort of civil war scenario that doesn't feel much different to what I've seen before. 

I don' know if future seasons might pick up the pace a bit, but I'm happy to wait.

gonna have to agree here. i got halfway through the season and just stopped watching

 

edit - just watched the S5 trailer. Nevermind, im back on board, lol. Looks great. 

[Heartofice]

2 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

But who was asking for a model they hadn’t considered might exist? You can still binge stuff when it’s over, exactly as you could before with a DVD. And Netflix was around for a while before they started dropping their own content all at once. It just seems obvious for the get go that a 10 episode season dropped weekly will net you three months of subscription (assuming they’re eager to watch it as early as possible), that’s three months to pick up other shows, to roll from a free trial to a paid subscription, to get comfortable with it and less likely to bother cancelling. I just don’t see what the driving financial incentive behind dropping all at once ever was.

I'd say the Netflix plan was to expand their user base rapidly and then keep them there by constantly churning out new content, and promising new content so that users were afraid to leave in case they miss out on something. Maybe that has worked, but we will see. Netflix has instead managed to churn out a sea of shite that makes me wonder why I bother.. until one good series turns up and I stick around.

Someone like Amazon doesn't really have that plan clearly, they don't have a huge library and many users are locked into Prime for other reasons. While they are there they might buy something else. 
 

2 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Also completely disagree that these are weak characters. I love them all, or love to hate them in some cases. They've complicated motivations, real emotional stakes and real personal relationships. And I love love love Averasala (and the actress who plays her).

This is what, 5 seasons now and I honestly have zero attachment to any of the main characters and that is a bad sign. I really couldn't care less what happens to any of them. Partly I think they are pretty weakly written, but mostly I just think the actors don't have enough charisma to hold the screen. This is massively true for James Holden, a man so bland I'd rather watch cardboard, but pretty much the entire crew is one note. 

Sadly I can count the interesting characters from the show on one hand and pretty much all of them have left now. Thomas Jane was pretty great, but he's mostly not around now, Fred Johnson keeps me interested, but hes a bit part player, David Strathairn as Klaes was fun and of course Jared Harris is brilliant in anything.. but now they have gone all thats left is James 'Beige' Holden. 

Of course there is Averasala.. who I will admit is not boring. But she is also a dreadful actress still coming to terms with English as a first language, seemingly unable to emote or emphasise words due to her incomprehension of what is being said. Add in a '3 packs of ciggys a day' habit and you have a main character that can barely get her lines out, never mind add gravitas or display emotions from her suspiciously frozen face. I assumed when she first came on screen there had been some sort of casting mistake.. but she is still here. 

I'm venting here, but the trailer stirred up a lot of emotions.
 

[Werthead]

5 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Honestly, Netflix created this idea of dropping all at once but what was the argument for it? All these things seem obvious, that you’ll get more hype and more subscribers for longer with a weekly schedule. I can’t see any counter arguments for the Netflix model really.

It worked when they were the only people doing it, and when it was for a few shows per year. When everyone started doing it and the schedule got rammed with shows all dropping entire seasons at once, it just glutted the system.

It also worked when the quality was relatively high. When they were regularly blasting out shows as good as House of Cards (before it turned into self-caricaturing shit), Orange is the New Black, Daredevil, Narcos, Stranger Things, Jessica Jones, The Crown and Ozark, that was one thing, but when your schedule is instead taken up by shovelware crap, it's much harder to justify the binge system.

Netflix's first ten original dramas were House of Cards, Hemlock Grove, Orange is the New Black, Marco Polo, Bloodline, Daredevil, Sense8, Narcos, Jessica Jones and Stranger Things, and it took them three years to bring them out. The hit rate there is absolutely incredible. The last ten were White Lines, Sweet Magnolias, Blood & Water, Homemade, Warrior Nun, Cursed, Young Wallander, Away, Ratched and The Haunting of Bly Manor, which have all aired in the last five months and none have made anything like the impact of any of the first ten.

I wouldn't be surprised if Netflix are watching what Amazon is doing and decide to go the same way, which will reduce their need for so many shows and will allow them to regain quality control.

Quote

Of course there is Averasala.. who I will admit is not boring. But she is also a dreadful actress still coming to terms with English as a first language, seemingly unable to emote or emphasise words due to her incomprehension of what is being said.

Shohreh Aghdashloo is an Iranian actress resident in the UK and then the USA since 1979. She didn't leave Iran until her late twenties, so that's why she still has a notable accent, but it's hardly undecipherable, and she clearly doesn't have any "incomprehension of what is being said."

She's a perfectly fine actress, as her very, very long career across hundreds of shows and films and her Emmy Award (among many others) attests.

[Corvinus85]

This is the first time I see someone say that these characters are weak. This is a show that makes people care about minor, episodic characters.

[Heartofice]

17 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Shohreh Aghdashloo is an Iranian actress resident in the UK and then the USA since 1979. She didn't leave Iran until her late twenties, so that's why she still has a notable accent, but it's hardly undecipherable, and she clearly doesn't have any "incomprehension of what is being said."

She's a perfectly fine actress, as her very, very long career across hundreds of shows and films and her Emmy Award (among many others) attests.

Well its funny you say that, her Academy Award nom is maybe one of the least deserving I've ever seen, considering its for House of Sand and Fog, a movie she is literally barely in, and when she does appear, she either speaks in Iranian or in an incredibly broken version of English... so that hardly backs up your point.

Other than that she's been in a myriad of low quality movies and tv shows, and when I looked for clips in her in those she was as completely awful as she was in The Expanse. 

[karaddin]

I think the particular things HoI chooses to criticise make it perfectly clear what it's actually about here, which isn't an opinion that's going to be swayed by others thoughts on her excellent qualities as an actress. I admire the patience of those of you that extend the benefit of the doubt and try engage it in good faith time after time though.

4 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Since I haven't followed the news closely, what happened re: Alex? Do we know how they decided to proceed?

I'm pretty sure they'd finished filming S5 when that news came out. They all seemed pretty furious at him and he's barely in this trailer at all despite having been a popular figure beforehand so I think it's pretty safe he'll be heading off one way or another after this season but I'm also very interested in learning what form that will take.

[Heartofice]

11 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I think the particular things HoI chooses to criticise make it perfectly clear what it's actually about here, which isn't an opinion that's going to be swayed by others thoughts on her excellent qualities as an actress. I admire the patience of those of you that extend the benefit of the doubt and try engage it in good faith time after time though.

Hmmm, have to wonder what you are sneering at here? No chance you’d be brave enough to say what you mean.

[karaddin]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Hmmm, have to wonder what you are sneering at here? No chance you’d be brave enough to say what you mean.

It's got nothing to do with bravery, it's following my perception of the board rules. And you're one to talk about bravery when you approach almost every topic trying to back door your agenda by claiming to hold a different position that you then consistently undermining it. I openly state who I am and what I stand for. 

I applaud shows that present a diverse world that reflects the one I live in. I love seeing more female characters in stories that get to be true to their own personalities with their own agendas that aren't just in service to the men that the show is actually about. I enjoy hearing accents from many different places, especially in a sci fi setting with a planetary organisation that's recruiting from across the globe, but I also just enjoy it because that range is pleasurable to my ears. I love seeing a character that gets such a lavish wardrobe that not just reflecting the characters cultural background, but actually extrapolating current fashion trends in that culture to have a plausible picture of their future fashion. I adore an actress that takes all these pieces and gives us a characters that's mesmerizing, terrifying and sexy all bundled up in one.

The above is clearly not your cup of tea.

[DaveSumm]

Fuck it, I’ll back him up: I think she’s pretty bad in The Expanse. Haven’t seen her in anything else. A lot of what you mention @karaddin speaks to the production as a whole, it’s commendable that they shot for a character like you describe, but I don’t think she pulls it off. It’s legitimate to question how bad a grasp of English an actor can have before it affects a performance. She swears very unnaturally, and Bobby’s testimony scene where she says “whatever I fucking well like” was so bad I can’t believe they didn’t reshoot.

[The Winged Shadow]

4 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

But who was asking for a model they hadn’t considered might exist? You can still binge stuff when it’s over, exactly as you could before with a DVD. And Netflix was around for a while before they started dropping their own content all at once. It just seems obvious for the get go that a 10 episode season dropped weekly will net you three months of subscription (assuming they’re eager to watch it as early as possible), that’s three months to pick up other shows, to roll from a free trial to a paid subscription, to get comfortable with it and less likely to bother cancelling. I just don’t see what the driving financial incentive behind dropping all at once ever was.

Not entirely sure I understand what you mean. But I feel like they gave a choice to people who didn't want to wait. Why do you have to wait? Clearly all the episodes are ready to release. These days, if you wait you get spoiled, thanks to the internet. While I personally don't care too much if I get spoiled, I still try to avoid spoilers wherever possible (still waiting on Winds of Winter before i continue my GoT binge.......). I stayed with netflix for good 3-4 years with a constant sub because of this. Wert's post above is also another good reason why. They had quality content I could binge on. Unfortunately (and perhaps inevitably), I kinda binged on everything of worth (specially the Aussie library, which is much smaller).

Weekly releases turn me off if anything. I was super disappointed to see The Boys on weekly release.  Same with Expanse. It doesn't mean they will get my money for 3 months, if anything, I make it a personal mission to give them as little of my money as possible and binge all their stuff in one month. The only reason I have weaned myself off netflix is because currently they don't have anything I want to see (as i binged it all over the last few years......>_>) and I wanted to make sure they were aware (as part of my unsub feedback) that quality was what was keeping me there, not quantity and they kept upping the price, canceling quality show (alter carbon ) and churning out lots of rubbish lately.

[Spockydog]

nvm