NFL 2019 Super Bowl: the restless shade of Mike Martz

[mcbigski]

I don't have an issue with prostitution per se. But at least find a decent 300 dollar an hour self employed escort instead of subsidizing human trafficking etc. That is morally wrong.

I also cant help but think that if Stephen Ross got taped getting a handy in a tug joint in Roxbury, the Mass police would sit on it until the Saturday when the Dolphins next came to Foxboro.

[SkynJay]

Yeah, this isnt about prostitution.  I fully support legalizing the profession.

This is looking like human trafficking.  And i dont see the NFL trying to sweep this under the rug, nor trying to toss it away with a fine.  Doesn't matter if Kraft knew it was trafficking or not.  If he finanacially supported it, and it is proven it was indeed trafficking, i dont expect Kraft to keep ownership.  The NFL wont allow that publicity.

 

 

[KingintheNorth4]

At worse, I can see him giving ownership of the franchise to his son, Jonathan, who's the heir apparent anyway.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

34 minutes ago, SkynJay said:

Yeah, this isnt about prostitution.  I fully support legalizing the profession.

This is looking like human trafficking.  And i dont see the NFL trying to sweep this under the rug, nor trying to toss it away with a fine.  Doesn't matter if Kraft knew it was trafficking or not.  If he finanacially supported it, and it is proven it was indeed trafficking, i dont expect Kraft to keep ownership.  The NFL wont allow that publicity.

 

 

I agree with the first parts, but I don't know if they can remove him. If they can, what KitN said is the most likely outcome. He could have easily survived a prostitution scandal, but human trafficking is a whole other deal, especially when it involves sex/rape (actually, I'm not entirely sure how to even categorize it). 

Have the other names been reported yet?

[briantw]

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I agree with the first parts, but I don't know if they can remove him. If they can, what KitN said is the most likely outcome. He could have easily survived a prostitution scandal, but human trafficking is a whole other deal, especially when it involves sex/rape (actually, I'm not entirely sure how to even categorize it). 

Have the other names been reported yet?

Yeah I'm pretty sure the NFL can't actually force any owner to sell their team.  They can pressure them, like they did with Richardson, but ultimately he made the decision to sell instead of fighting it.  

I'm not sure Kraft would go so willingly.

[Fez]

28 minutes ago, briantw said:

Yeah I'm pretty sure the NFL can't actually force any owner to sell their team.  They can pressure them, like they did with Richardson, but ultimately he made the decision to sell instead of fighting it.  

I'm not sure Kraft would go so willingly.

The NBA forced Donald Sterling to sell, and I wouldn't be surprised if all the major US leagues have similar rules surrounding their owners. Do we know for sure that Richardson wasn't forced out behind the scenes?

Also, I think its been confirmed that the league did force Leonard Tose to sell the Eagles back in the '80s (and blocked the first sale he arranged), but that was a bit different since Tose was financially insolvent and the league was concerned about the team remaining in existence.

[DMC]

4 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Yeah, and billionaire using sex slaves is something that goes beyond @Rockrois who gives a shit. 

My ego totally agrees with this.  My id is like, damn I lived in Orlando and that only cost sixty dollars?

[SkynJay]

Google didnt help much but i did find a few articles where the owners were looking at their options for forcing out an other owner when Jerry Jones was threatening to sue.  

So i am guessing it wouldn't be easy unless they were really determined.

Could they just not schedule a team or something creative like that?

[Jace, Extat]

42 minutes ago, SkynJay said:

Google didnt help much but i did find a few articles where the owners were looking at their options for forcing out an other owner when Jerry Jones was threatening to sue.  

So i am guessing it wouldn't be easy unless they were really determined.

Could they just not schedule a team or something creative like that?

And give up broadcasting revenue? Don't be fucking absurd.

[Joe Pesci]

Karma comes around. Videotape finally catches the Pats in the act for a change...what a shame. I won't fault the guy for pursuing his urges, just go do it in Vegas where it's legal like a billionaire should.

[DanteGabriel]

Apparently Kraft went to this parlor on the morning of the AFC Championship Game. So he literally rolled from a cheap, exploitive tug joint to his private jet to lord it up at the stadium in Kansas City. I understand, as Kal pointed out, that guys will do a lot of dumb things on their way to getting their dick sucked, but holy hell this just gets worse and worse.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Apparently Kraft went to this parlor on the morning of the AFC Championship Game. So he literally rolled from a cheap, exploitive tug joint to his private jet to lord it up at the stadium in Kansas City. I understand, as Kal pointed out, that guys will do a lot of dumb things on their way to getting their dick sucked, but holy hell this just gets worse and worse.

It's so bizarre. I have no idea what he was thinking. If he needed it that badly, why not just stop off in Nevada after the game? 

[Jace, Extat]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

It's so bizarre. I have no idea what he was thinking. If he needed it that badly, why not just stop off in Nevada after the game? 

The best explanation I can think of is power dynamic. He likes 'em to be cheap and miserable, so that he feels even bigger about his bank account.

[DanteGabriel]

6 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

The best explanation I can think of is power dynamic. He likes 'em to be cheap and miserable, so that he feels even bigger about his bank account.

It is hard to escape this conclusion for me as well.

[Kalbear]

I think you're also thinking like a normal person. 

If you're a billionaire, you can do virtually anything. You won't get caught, or if you do you won't have a problem, or if worse comes to worse you can pay to make it go away. Chances are good he's been doing shit like this for years and years, and he does it because he can and he's powerful. 

The arguments against him doing it are akin to the arguments that attractive men or famous men wouldn't ever rape anyone, because they don't need to. And it's just as bullshit. 

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

I think you're also thinking like a normal person. 

If you're a billionaire, you can do virtually anything. You won't get caught, or if you do you won't have a problem, or if worse comes to worse you can pay to make it go away. Chances are good he's been doing shit like this for years and years, and he does it because he can and he's powerful. 

The arguments against him doing it are akin to the arguments that attractive men or famous men wouldn't ever rape anyone, because they don't need to. And it's just as bullshit. 

Kal I have no idea what the thrust of this comment is. And I've sat on my response to allow for greater reflection. Maybe it's because I haven't started drinking yet. 

But DG and I were seemingly in agreement that part of Kraft's sexual gratification seemingly comes from the most extreme power imbalance he can find. I hesitate to say such a thing with no evidence, but was attempting to allude to the fact that the only rational explanation is that the man likes getting worked on by slaves. Because he's a monster. And not even fun slaves like 50 shades of whatever. But actual human chattel or as near as he could find.

I'm not sure what part of that is 'normal' or clashes with the severe insulation a man of Kraft's means has from consequences you point out.

Are we just saying the same thing from completely oblique angles?

[dbunting]

2 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Kal I have no idea what the thrust of this comment is. And I've sat on my response to allow for greater reflection. Maybe it's because I haven't started drinking yet. 

But DG and I were seemingly in agreement that part of Kraft's sexual gratification seemingly comes from the most extreme power imbalance he can find. I hesitate to say such a thing with no evidence, but was attempting to allude to the fact that the only rational explanation is that the man likes getting worked on by slaves. Because he's a monster. And not even fun slaves like 50 shades of whatever. But actual human chattel or as near as he could find.

I'm not sure what part of that is 'normal' or clashes with the severe insulation a man of Kraft's means has from consequences you point out.

Are we just saying the same thing from completely oblique angles?

I think he was saying that you are normal. Like when a mass shooting happens or a serial killer pops up, people say I can't understand how/why he would do this...   It's because you think like a normal person, which clearly they are not. 

[Kalbear]

It wasnt a direct reply to you, and I apologize for the confusion. I saw a lot of replies with the thinking that he should have gotten a high class escort or something. The power imbalance is there, sure, but the most banal answer is that he did it because he could. He gave no more thought to getting in trouble for this than he does for taking a shit. 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

the most banal answer is that he did it because he could. He gave no more thought to getting in trouble for this than he does for taking a shit. 

The..establishment was in between an Outback Steakhouse and some other piece of shit place, right?  Yeah, Kal's point is right on.

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, dbunting said:

I think he was saying that you are normal. Like when a mass shooting happens or a serial killer pops up, people say I can't understand how/why he would do this...   It's because you think like a normal person, which clearly they are not. 

Not to be a combative contrarian bitch (where would that come from?) but I don't buy this. I can tell you I've never once said the words through a haze of idiotic tears "I don't UNDERSTAND why he killed all those people!!!"

That just ain't Jace. See below for expanded rebuttal that is not tied to a tangential example.

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

It wasnt a direct reply to you, and I apologize for the confusion. I saw a lot of replies with the thinking that he should have gotten a high class escort or something. The power imbalance is there, sure, but the most banal answer is that he did it because he could. He gave no more thought to getting in trouble for this than he does for taking a shit. 

Continuing, I find this answer entirely disagreeable. 'Because he can' is such a casual dismissal I think it is disrespectful to both Kraft's despicable proclivities and the victims of them. He went to Florida the morning of the AFC Championship literally halfway across the country for a reason. Clearly he was a repeat visitor to this establishment, so unless he really liked the Outback Steakhouse next door there was something to get him coming back. It couldn't have been convenient, the scheduling alone must have been a chore. People don't do things 'because they can'. I think I know what you're trying to suggest here, that to a man like him indecency is a triviality. But such superficial reasoning isn't how people work and serves only as a defense mechanism for the likes of Kraft.

'Because I can' is (in any context I am capable of imagining at this drinking hour) almost always something an asshole or villain says to explain their routine ugliness, but to take it at face value is to ignore the subtext of such a statement. 'Because I can' hit my wife and not face consequences is not the reason why someone hits their wife. It's the disregard of external analysis. A blocking maneuver. Someone rapes sex slaves not 'because they can' but because they enjoy something about it. You don't get in a plane and surreptitiously get a blow job at a strip mall 'just because' that's an option which is available to you, that option has to have some kind of appeal beyond simple availability when more convenient recourse is also viable.

Am I out on a limb here? I don't mean to be.

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

The..establishment was in between an Outback Steakhouse and some other piece of shit place, right?  Yeah, Kal's point is right on.

I was gonna say more but I grow weary and unsure of my position. See above.