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Do you feel this show had any negative effect on how you view the books?

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43 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

GRRM has said

"How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different? Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes."

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If the outcome of the books is the same as the outcome of the show, I won't personally waste my time reading them. It's not likely to happen though as I doubt we'll ever see the last 2 books completed. It's not like these books are 300 page easy reads, each volume is its own 'bible' in length. It's not a small time investment to read them. I've read all of the books to date and watched every thrones episode. If Bran ends up King, Jon exiled, and Sansa 'queen of the north' I really don't care how GRRM arrives at those endings. They suck period! It's all putting lipstick on a pig. It's the equivalent of Return of the Jedi ending with the emperor calling off the attack on the rebel fleet, meeting the rebels on endor and making one of the Ewoks ruler of the galaxy. There is no way you can sell or spin that shit to me to make it a satisfying and proper ending to this story. I've enjoyed the 'fan fiction' endings I've seen floating around so much more than the shit sandwich that was the ending of the show. Hopefully GRRM takes a hint and realizes the ending we saw is not the ending this amazing saga deserves.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/29/2019 at 5:21 PM, Tyrion1991 said:

I think foreknowledge that we get a perfect Stark ending ruins the series for me.

It will definitely make me read to the end. The Stark shattering and diaspora, then justice and restoration, is one of those most important of all the story arcs. They're the characters you most sympathize with; you're meant to. If we had lost any more of them, I wouldn't have bothered. Now I will.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Sonoftheharpie said:

If Bran ends up King, Jon exiled, and Sansa 'queen of the north' I really don't care how GRRM arrives at those endings. 

I'm very much looking forward to reading that ending. It's everything I've been hoping for. Bran's chapters in Dance are the best ones, bar none.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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2 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

It will definitely make me read to the end. The Stark shattering and diaspora, then justice and restoration, is one of those most important of all the story arcs. They're the characters you most sympathize with; you're meant to. If we had lost any more of them, I wouldn't have bothered. Now I will.

 

First impressions matter enormously to me.

When I first saw the show it was on the recommendation that “it’s got girl dovahkiin in with dragons”. So when you are first introduced to the prolific Stark clan I was not really keen on them. They push them as being the good guys you’re meant to root for too much. They pretty much start in the shire. They all start as naive children which I don’t like in stories. So that completely writes off Bran and Rickon. 

The only Stark I immediately liked was Rob Stark. Particularly because he played off Theon so well. Once he died it really damaged what investment I had in the cause. Which is odd because of course the show really pushes Jon to Rob 2.0 in later seasons but I was never convinced.

Ned works because he plays off Robert Baratheon. Plus Sean Bean. I watched all the Sharpe episodes growing up so I was sold on him as the indomitable Northern Lord who’s out of his depth. Plus in retrospect I liked that Ned wasn’t this crazy nationalist who buys into independence and who wants to peg a tree. He wants to stay part of the 7 Kingdoms and that should be an enormous source of strength. The break between House Stark and Baratheon is a massive reason for their houses downfall. Which is why I never sympathised with Northern Independence.

Sansa was alright as it’s the right kind of naive and it compliments the rest of the series exploration of chivalry and love so well. Plus making her clearly a young wide eyed Disney princess in a grim dark world is a great premise and everything just follows from that. However I disagreed with the shows take on her in later seasons. I wasn’t sold on her as the new schemer and her sudden interest in the Northern cause. Indeed I really do believe they only had her become Queen of the North to save face. In the books I think she’s going to be a much, much darker character. I don’t see her being Elizabeth the First and on her own. Never mind that in the show there’s so little to work with that it was never going to be satisfying.

You can immediately tell what Arya is going to be the moment she’s introduced. This is a Dungeons and Dragons rogue. I despise that archtype. It’s the most edgy and hipster kind of character imaginable. Which the show and George keep playing into all the time. For me that increasingly became cringe worthy. The only saving grace for Arya is when she witnesses the Red Wedding and Neds death. But then, a plank might have went through that situation and it would have been sad.

Rickon isn’t a person.

Jon simply isn’t likeable. He is an arrogant self absorbed brat who feels he’s been hard done by because people called him names. I was not convinced and Tyrion pretty much confirms that view. However having done that they then abruptly try to swap him to “oh he’s the man of the people who protects little Sam who’s just like you, see, see”. This was an unearned realisation and set the tone for the rest of his story. No I was not sold on this. Also, him being budget Aragon was annoying. Joins the rangers on the eve of the world and is blatantly King. This undercut all the efforts to make him Rob 2.0 and then Danys lover later on.

Bran. Oh my god where to begin. You would be hard pressed to come up with a more irritating character. Not just an annoying kid character, but needy, gets himself into trouble and he goes out the window too quick for you to care. Then, they push all of the cryptic spirit magic stuff at you which I am not a fan of. Again, trying to be edgy. I am pretty told “you must care about this kid”.

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, KingMudd said:

GRRM has said the endings will be the same 

BS.  GRRM has said everything and its opposite. No one knows for sure.

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4 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

It will definitely make me read to the end. The Stark shattering and diaspora, then justice and restoration, is one of those most important of all the story arcs. They're the characters you most sympathize with; you're meant to. If we had lost any more of them, I wouldn't have bothered. Now I will.

Really, I could just read about the Starks and the Martells and forget the rest. 

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2 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

BS.  GRRM has said everything and its opposite. No one knows for sure.

Sure thing. 

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7 hours ago, the Other Wolf said:

"How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different? Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes."

The same then. He says the same as the show? Different? Yes and no. So the same then. It'll be a bit different as there are more characters but the general outcome will be the same.

I guess well see when he finishes it. 

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On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 11:30 AM, KingMudd said:

The same then. He says the same as the show? Different? Yes and no. So the same then. It'll be a bit different as there are more characters but the general outcome will be the same.

I guess well see when he finishes it. 

I think you are Reading the sentence like you want it to be...

And returning to the original post.

I think that when even people in this site that mostly worships grrm don t like the end and don t really want to read a series with that ending then something was really wrong.

I am not saying that grrm won t make the ending much better, but I think it is simply flawed and now that it is spoiled it will be very hard to change how people feel about it. Unless there is some fundamental change I think people will still dislike/hate it in the books.

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On 6/1/2019 at 12:33 AM, Tyrion1991 said:

 

First impressions matter enormously to me.

When I first saw the show it was on the recommendation that “it’s got girl dovahkiin in with dragons”. So when you are first introduced to the prolific Stark clan I was not really keen on them. They push them as being the good guys you’re meant to root for too much. They pretty much start in the shire. They all start as naive children which I don’t like in stories. So that completely writes off Bran and Rickon. 

The only Stark I immediately liked was Rob Stark. Particularly because he played off Theon so well. Once he died it really damaged what investment I had in the cause. Which is odd because of course the show really pushes Jon to Rob 2.0 in later seasons but I was never convinced.

Ned works because he plays off Robert Baratheon. Plus Sean Bean. I watched all the Sharpe episodes growing up so I was sold on him as the indomitable Northern Lord who’s out of his depth. Plus in retrospect I liked that Ned wasn’t this crazy nationalist who buys into independence and who wants to peg a tree. He wants to stay part of the 7 Kingdoms and that should be an enormous source of strength. The break between House Stark and Baratheon is a massive reason for their houses downfall. Which is why I never sympathised with Northern Independence.

Sansa was alright as it’s the right kind of naive and it compliments the rest of the series exploration of chivalry and love so well. Plus making her clearly a young wide eyed Disney princess in a grim dark world is a great premise and everything just follows from that. However I disagreed with the shows take on her in later seasons. I wasn’t sold on her as the new schemer and her sudden interest in the Northern cause. Indeed I really do believe they only had her become Queen of the North to save face. In the books I think she’s going to be a much, much darker character. I don’t see her being Elizabeth the First and on her own. Never mind that in the show there’s so little to work with that it was never going to be satisfying.

You can immediately tell what Arya is going to be the moment she’s introduced. This is a Dungeons and Dragons rogue. I despise that archtype. It’s the most edgy and hipster kind of character imaginable. Which the show and George keep playing into all the time. For me that increasingly became cringe worthy. The only saving grace for Arya is when she witnesses the Red Wedding and Neds death. But then, a plank might have went through that situation and it would have been sad.

Rickon isn’t a person.

Jon simply isn’t likeable. He is an arrogant self absorbed brat who feels he’s been hard done by because people called him names. I was not convinced and Tyrion pretty much confirms that view. However having done that they then abruptly try to swap him to “oh he’s the man of the people who protects little Sam who’s just like you, see, see”. This was an unearned realisation and set the tone for the rest of his story. No I was not sold on this. Also, him being budget Aragon was annoying. Joins the rangers on the eve of the world and is blatantly King. This undercut all the efforts to make him Rob 2.0 and then Danys lover later on.

Bran. Oh my god where to begin. You would be hard pressed to come up with a more irritating character. Not just an annoying kid character, but needy, gets himself into trouble and he goes out the window too quick for you to care. Then, they push all of the cryptic spirit magic stuff at you which I am not a fan of. Again, trying to be edgy. I am pretty told “you must care about this kid”.

 

 

 

 

 

Funny how you get my feelings about the Starks spot-on. 

 

Unless someone tells me the books do end differently, then I am fine not reading them and forgetting about this series altogether. Sansa hasn't been spoiled yet so I am rooting for her in the books at least. 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, madhikun said:

Funny how you get my feelings about the Starks spot-on. 

 

Unless someone tells me the books do end differently, then I am fine not reading them and forgetting about this series altogether. Sansa hasn't been spoiled yet so I am rooting for her in the books at least. 

Jon is much more sympathetic in the books. The show doesn't do a good job of conveying the stigma of illegitimacy, but the books really do. He also comes across as considerably more intelligent than his show counterpart.

But honestly, Jon and Sansa are the only living members of the Stark clan I care about. Arya is a loathsome archetype in both versions of the story, and Bran the Broken is tiresome. Whenever I read one of his chapters I wonder why the princely mystic hasn't been killed off yet. Sadly, he never will get the chop.

Edited by Uilliam

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18 minutes ago, madhikun said:

Funny how you get my feelings about the Starks spot-on. 

Unless someone tells me the books do end differently, then I am fine not reading them and forgetting about this series altogether. Sansa hasn't been spoiled yet so I am rooting for her in the books at least. 

Many viewers have noticed that when the showrunners could get from point A to point B by adapting Martin’s own published writings for the screen, the results were quite a bit more convincing and satisfying for them than those time when the showrunners had to wing how to get there all on their own without enough guidance in the detailed backstory.

That doesn't seem too astonishing to me. It also suggests books yet to be published will be significantly more convincing and satisfying than the last two or three seasons of the television program were for folks who come to experience both.

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37 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

It also suggests books yet to be published will be significantly more convincing and satisfying than the last two or three seasons of the television program were for folks who come to experience both

We shall pray to the old gods and the new! 

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On 5/31/2019 at 8:21 PM, Sonoftheharpie said:

If the outcome of the books is the same as the outcome of the show, I won't personally waste my time reading them. It's not likely to happen though as I doubt we'll ever see the last 2 books completed. It's not like these books are 300 page easy reads, each volume is its own 'bible' in length. It's not a small time investment to read them. I've read all of the books to date and watched every thrones episode. If Bran ends up King, Jon exiled, and Sansa 'queen of the north' I really don't care how GRRM arrives at those endings. They suck period! It's all putting lipstick on a pig. It's the equivalent of Return of the Jedi ending with the emperor calling off the attack on the rebel fleet, meeting the rebels on endor and making one of the Ewoks ruler of the galaxy. There is no way you can sell or spin that shit to me to make it a satisfying and proper ending to this story. I've enjoyed the 'fan fiction' endings I've seen floating around so much more than the shit sandwich that was the ending of the show. Hopefully GRRM takes a hint and realizes the ending we saw is not the ending this amazing saga deserves.

Isaac confirmed that GRRM told Benioff and Weiss that Bran will be king so don’t waste your time if you think that a plot point could get you to quit the books. It was the intention from the beginning. It is Brandon Stark’s story.

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on the contrary,  the HBO series made me appreciate the books more.  The writing and story arc of the TV series was just awful.  I pray that George Martin will get off his butt and finish the job.    

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On 6/2/2019 at 12:29 PM, Uilliam said:

Jon is much more sympathetic in the books. The show doesn't do a good job of conveying the stigma of illegitimacy, but the books really do. He also comes across as considerably more intelligent than his show counterpart.

But honestly, Jon and Sansa are the only living members of the Stark clan I care about. Arya is a loathsome archetype in both versions of the story, and Bran the Broken is tiresome. Whenever I read one of his chapters I wonder why the princely mystic hasn't been killed off yet. Sadly, he never will get the chop.

Ahaha I had read all the books before starting the show, so I was already not a Snow fan. I thought ADWD was to show how both Dany and Jon weren't great at ruling, but Dany's instinct helped her triumph/survive whereas Jon Snow is murdered. Suuuuuper upset when Jon Snow was resurrected. "No one is safe." my butt!

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Not looking forward to my boy Jon making even more blunders for the sake of a terrible ruling candidate and also because he can't control his dick. Not looking forward to more Tyrion. If he keeps being a Dany skeptic and if Penny sticks around to challenge him on his privilege, I can tolerate him. If its clear that Jon kills Dany for Sansa, this could potentially repair his mistakes in elevating Dany as queen and get me invested again. 

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If anything the way the show wrapped up has made me more eager to experience it done better in the books. All throughout the final season I found myself imagining how these story arcs would play out with GRRM's detail and perspective. Although who knows how much from the last couple of season truly is going to be in the books? That's another reason to be more excited now. 

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59 minutes ago, Joey Crows said:

If anything the way the show wrapped up has made me more eager to experience it done better in the books. All throughout the final season I found myself imagining how these story arcs would play out with GRRM's detail and perspective. Although who knows how much from the last couple of season truly is going to be in the books? That's another reason to be more excited now. 

Oftentimes, a TV show imprints its adaptation onto book readers minds so that many become unable to imagine another aesthetical representation. However, not so in this case. Martin's writing remains a lot richer/deeply complex and is completely able to to inspire original imagination. The Essos Meereen plot and existence of (F)Aegon is so much better in the book.

I feel there will be another adaptation with even better actors/actresses in the future. Perhaps the worlds first multi billion dollar budget TV series truly bring Planetos to life? 

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