Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
CassDarry

How does Ned know Lyanna is at the Tower of Joy?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, CassDarry said:

Have I just missed the explanation in the books? Or is the explanation coming?

No, you didn't miss anything. There has not been an explanation. Anyone saying otherwise on here is only guessing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It hasn't been revealed yet but it is also possible that no one told him. Ned and his companions began at Storm's End. Ned expected to find the kingsguard there but when he did not then Summerhall and Starfall were obvious places to start looking, and the Prince's Pass is on that route.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Aetta said:

Copy that 

 

9 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Ashara

I have to concur.  It's even possible that she contacted him early in the war.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps Varys told him in order to secure his pardon. I find it hard to believe that Varys did not know where the crown prince and 3 members of the kingsguard including the lord commander were. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

22 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Ashara

 Yeah, most like. She was a lady in waiting for Elia, present at HH during the crowning of Lyanna of blue roses. Do we know if she was present at KL when Gregor came to town? She must of been close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/30/2020 at 1:18 PM, CassDarry said:

Have I just missed the explanation in the books? Or is the explanation coming?

The squire.  The one who was shown the king's mercy.  He shared the dungeon with Brandon.  Ashara is theorized to have visited the dungeon and was the former lover of Brandon.  The visit involved bribery and the two had sex.  She would know the whereabouts of the tower.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ned's fever dream may be unreliable to some degree, and GRRM has stated as much, but some of Ned's memories, like seven against three and pulling down the tower to build cairns, are more reliable. It's the pivotal scene in the series and one we know will be revisited. Even though our perspective may change when all the details are revealed, I doubt the basic premise will change.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/31/2020 at 12:42 AM, three-eyed monkey said:

It hasn't been revealed yet but it is also possible that no one told him. Ned and his companions began at Storm's End. Ned expected to find the kingsguard there but when he did not then Summerhall and Starfall were obvious places to start looking, and the Prince's Pass is on that route.

Just him and his besties, who he could trust not to babble about Lyanna's condition?

Besides, Prince's Pass is on the way but the tower itself is not, it is on a ridge (quite logically, for a former watchout tower), no reason to go there if you're merely heading south.

On 2/1/2020 at 2:15 AM, Dothraki Khal said:

Well, we don't.  It's a theory.  Ned was high as a kite on pain killers.  Perhaps he was in a state of delirium and his dream is not to be trusted.  

Funny that he was perfectly lucid when he woke up, though. He himself identified the dream about the tower, the KG and Lyanna in her bed of blood as one he had had before, and kept thinking about some elements of the dream even when awake. It is not a recording of what exactly went down but it is not psychedelic bullshit, either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Besides, Prince's Pass is on the way but the tower itself is not, it is on a ridge (quite logically, for a former watchout tower), no reason to go there if you're merely heading south.

A tower on a ridge overlooking the pass. That means a line of sight between both parties. So if Ned and companions were going south and saw signs of occupancy at the tower, like horses or smoke, then they might go there, if only to inquire if the watchers had seen three kingsguard and a maid come this way.

I'm not opposed to Ned having been informed by someone, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, but it remains a possibility that he was not. The reason I keep that option open is because I'm unclear about so many other questions surrounding the tower, and I'd love hear your opinion on them. They are related to the OP so I don't think I'm straying off-topic.

My main question is how long was Lyanna and company at the tower? If Lyanna was there a long time then it is likely someone could inform Ned but if she was there a short time then it's less likely. We don't know if they went straight from Harrenhal to the tower or if they went elsewhere in between. Summerhall and Starfall are plausible locations they might have visited over those months.

Ned tells us that Rhaegar named the place the Tower of Joy. Was that a widely known fact? If it was then we could say that even without an informer Ned might decide to search Summerhall, the Tower of Joy, Starfall, and then maybe Oldtown. Or was that something Lyanna told Ned before she died? It raises the question as to when Rhaegar named the tower. Had he named it that before he ever met Lyanna? Was it so named because that's where the Prince that was Promised was conceived or was it because that's where he would be born? Was it always Rhaegar's intention that the child would be born there or was it unscripted so to speak? If that was Rhaegar's intention then I wonder why he chose the tower over somewhere more like Summerhall?

And finally there is the question of Gerold Hightower. Jaime only recalls that Rhaegar returned from the south. How did Hightower know where to find Rhaegar? Did he have the same informer as Ned or did he follow the same logic as Ned when it came to deciding where to look? Hightower may have found them at Summerhall for all we know. He may have met them at the Prince's Pass while he traveled from Summerhall to Starfall and they from Starfall to Summerhall. Or maybe he knew exactly where to go.

I don't have definitive answers for these questions and I'm interested to hear what people think.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, three-eyed monkey said:

A tower on a ridge overlooking the pass. That means a line of sight between both parties. So if Ned and companions were going south and saw signs of occupancy at the tower, like horses or smoke, then they might go there, if only to inquire if the watchers had seen three kingsguard and a maid come this way.

The occupants of the tower definitely had to be able to keep a low profile, not to attract the attention of travellers. If Ned had had no idea where Lyanna was, he had no reason to travel in such a light company through a potentially dangerous territory and go enquire in his own person.

2 hours ago, three-eyed monkey said:

I'm not opposed to Ned having been informed by someone, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, but it remains a possibility that he was not. The reason I keep that option open is because I'm unclear about so many other questions surrounding the tower, and I'd love hear your opinion on them. They are related to the OP so I don't think I'm straying off-topic.

My main question is how long was Lyanna and company at the tower? If Lyanna was there a long time then it is likely someone could inform Ned but if she was there a short time then it's less likely. We don't know if they went straight from Harrenhal to the tower or if they went elsewhere in between. Summerhall and Starfall are plausible locations they might have visited over those months.

Ned tells us that Rhaegar named the place the Tower of Joy. Was that a widely known fact? If it was then we could say that even without an informer Ned might decide to search Summerhall, the Tower of Joy, Starfall, and then maybe Oldtown. Or was that something Lyanna told Ned before she died? It raises the question as to when Rhaegar named the tower. Had he named it that before he ever met Lyanna? Was it so named because that's where the Prince that was Promised was conceived or was it because that's where he would be born? Was it always Rhaegar's intention that the child would be born there or was it unscripted so to speak? If that was Rhaegar's intention then I wonder why he chose the tower over somewhere more like Summerhall?

All good questions.

2 hours ago, three-eyed monkey said:

And finally there is the question of Gerold Hightower. Jaime only recalls that Rhaegar returned from the south. How did Hightower know where to find Rhaegar? Did he have the same informer as Ned or did he follow the same logic as Ned when it came to deciding where to look? Hightower may have found them at Summerhall for all we know. He may have met them at the Prince's Pass while he traveled from Summerhall to Starfall and they from Starfall to Summerhall. Or maybe he knew exactly where to go.

You have left out the possiblity that Rhaegar himself might have left a clue. Perhaps not directly, or else Aerys might not have played nice, but Hightower might have been instructed to reach a particular place, from which Whent or Dayne took him to ToJ. With Ned, it is possible that Rhaegar might have left a message behind as a contingency plan, with Ethan Glover being the messenger (his presence at ToJ is rather baffling, IMHO, he supposedly spent the rebellion in KL dungeons).

Also, it is not impossible that after the news of the Trident reached ToJ, it was Lyanna herself who reached out to her brother (leaving aside the particular of how for the time being) as the only person who might be able and willing to protect her.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, three-eyed monkey said:

Ned tells us that Rhaegar named the place the Tower of Joy. Was that a widely known fact? If it was then we could say that even without an informer Ned might decide to search Summerhall, the Tower of Joy, Starfall, and then maybe Oldtown. Or was that something Lyanna told Ned before she died? It raises the question as to when Rhaegar named the tower. Had he named it that before he ever met Lyanna? Was it so named because that's where the Prince that was Promised was conceived or was it because that's where he would be born? Was it always Rhaegar's intention that the child would be born there or was it unscripted so to speak? If that was Rhaegar's intention then I wonder why he chose the tower over somewhere more like Summerhall?

I doubt the name of the tower was a widely known fact and I think the information could have come from Lyanna herself. And I have some serious doubts that Lyanna and Rhaegar, and Lyanna herself after Rhaegar went back to King's Landing spent all that much time there. I think they were traveling across Dorne both times and stopped there because they had to.

I think it was named that because they found out she was pregnant there. I think they were hold up in someone's castle until the sack of King's Landing after which the decision was made that they had to leave Westeros and were crossing into the Prince's Pass when she went into labor and they had no choice but to stop there.

I think Rhaegar may have decided that producing Lyanna to Ned could rally the north behind him and with his marriage to Catelyn, the riverlands as well instead, but the pregnancy changed his plans. 

But this is all in the realm of speculation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...