Werthead Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said: I can see Johnson, Cummings and Pritel now, debating the pros and cons; short term con of extra NHS funding with a longterm pro of killing off the old and sick. The sick, yes, but not the old. You don't get re-elected by killing (or allowing to die) your natural voting base, likely severely narking off the survivors and their friends, families etc by the time of the next election. This is the problem Boris has had since the election, that to retain natural Labour supporters he has to really start doing more Labour-ish things, which the Conservative Party is not inclined to do but Boris may be inclined to because he is a relatively simple populist at heart. The NHS is a bit of a safe thing to say he's going to reinforce and do more things with, and it's easy to pour a little bit of extra money in to pretend you're doing something without the long-term, significant extra investments the service actually needs to meet minimal demand, let alone have extra capacity for the next time something like this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 40 minutes ago, Werthead said: The NHS is a bit of a safe thing to say he's going to reinforce and do more things with, and it's easy to pour a little bit of extra money in to pretend you're doing something without the long-term, significant extra investments the service actually needs to meet minimal demand, let alone have extra capacity for the next time something like this happens. 'Next time' is the operative bit there: it's way too late to do anything now. If you watch that interview, he's waffling away about recruiting extra nurses but there's no acknowledgment of the fact that it'll take years and probably can't ever be done thanks to Brexit. It's a target that sounds good to voters but will never be met and therefore never has to be paid for. Classic Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 On 3/9/2020 at 4:15 AM, SeanF said: I see Labour have suspended Trevor Philips from membership. I think that party has a death wish. Is Labour going to split over the anti Semitism issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Is Labour going to split over the anti Semitism issue? Probably depends on who wins the leadership election - if Starmer gets it he’ll move them away from that but if Long-Bailey gets in then you might see some fireworks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Is Labour going to split over the anti Semitism issue? In the end, I expect common sense will reassert itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 A reminder that we get the budget tomorrow, lest it be lost amidst the Coronavirus chatter (likely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 How did Labour even become this degree of anti-Semitic? I just listened to this short podcast, and it seems pretty undeniable that its infect a noticeable size of the party. As an American Jew, I have a bit of a hard time squaring that the liberal party is the anti-Semitic party considering almost all of it here in the states is on the far right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: How did Labour even become this degree of anti-Semitic? I just listened to this short podcast, and it seems pretty undeniable that its infect a noticeable size of the party. As an American Jew, I have a bit of a hard time squaring that the liberal party is the anti-Semitic party considering almost all of it here in the states is on the far right. As well you should. I’m pretty floored by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Health minister Nadine Dorries has been diagnosed with coronavirus. She was at an event with Boris last week, although that may have been before she caught the virus. Presumably she may well have been in contact with a number of other senior government figures as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ants Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, williamjm said: Health minister Nadine Dorries has been diagnosed with coronavirus. She was at an event with Boris last week, although that may have been before she caught the virus. Presumably she may well have been in contact with a number of other senior government figures as well. It has a two week incubation period where you're infectious, so I'd have thought she would have been spreading it around last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: How did Labour even become this degree of anti-Semitic? In Europe, support for the oppressed often means support for the Palestinians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorshach Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, Rippounet said: In Europe, support for the oppressed often means support for the Palestinians. And (and Ripp knows, so this isn't a correction) while many manage to be critical of the Israeli handling of the Palestinian issue, for some that support of Palestine moves on to conflating Jews with Israel and Israeli politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: How did Labour even become this degree of anti-Semitic? I just listened to this short podcast, and it seems pretty undeniable that its infect a noticeable size of the party. As an American Jew, I have a bit of a hard time squaring that the liberal party is the anti-Semitic party considering almost all of it here in the states is on the far right. There is a very loud minority that are anti semetic. There is a more reasonable majority that holds the state of Israel to account for some of their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Also conspiracy nutters believibg Jews control all the money, which is presumably why the hard left have s problem with anti-semetism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 10 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: How did Labour even become this degree of anti-Semitic? I just listened to this short podcast, and it seems pretty undeniable that its infect a noticeable size of the party. As an American Jew, I have a bit of a hard time squaring that the liberal party is the anti-Semitic party considering almost all of it here in the states is on the far right. I don't think it's as widespread as it seems (not trying to downplay it), it's just that the hard left is much more vocal and so it appears there are more of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 Yes, the issue is that there has always been this thread of antisemitic discourse or blindness to antisemitism on the hard left: but the issue rose to prominence because that wing of the party got someone into a leadership position who was sympathetic to them, which hadn't happened before. As I've said before, I can recall having to deal with Socialist Worker types who were antisemitic what, 25 years ago? It was the very same stuff, but it was very much fringe then. Many of those people had been chucked out of the party under Neil Kinnock in the '80s. Under Corbyn, they were welcomed back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I see Chris Grayling has been appointed chair of the intelligence committee... Bit of an oxymoron there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Labour Party looking baffled at the government delivering a decidedly Labour-esque budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Rorshach said: And (and Ripp knows, so this isn't a correction) while many manage to be critical of the Israeli handling of the Palestinian issue, for some that support of Palestine moves on to conflating Jews with Israel and Israeli politics. And therein lies the problem. Support for Jews and Jewish identity does not and has never equaled unquestioning support for the State of Israel. I have called out people online conflating those positions for explicitly attacking Jews and been accused of spreading hate for calling them out. This is not that complicated Jew =/= Israel. It never has and aggressive anti-Zionists frequently miss this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 5 hours ago, mormont said: Yes, the issue is that there has always been this thread of antisemitic discourse or blindness to antisemitism on the hard left: but the issue rose to prominence because that wing of the party got someone into a leadership position who was sympathetic to them, which hadn't happened before. As I've said before, I can recall having to deal with Socialist Worker types who were antisemitic what, 25 years ago? It was the very same stuff, but it was very much fringe then. Many of those people had been chucked out of the party under Neil Kinnock in the '80s. Under Corbyn, they were welcomed back. What was the logic in welcoming back people who are anti Semitic? Why would Corbyn not see that such an action would be perceived as support for anti Semitism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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