Us Politics: my creepy grandpa can beat up your creepy grandpa

[ants]

On 4/11/2020 at 4:31 AM, Zorral said:

Always the Dems' choice while the radicalized rethug base did the others, always.

This is the utter consolidation of fascism both here and globally.  Wait as the food chain breaks as the planting and harvests aren't done this year . . . .

Absolutely.  Except, oh wait, Clinton tried to bring in healthcare reform, and Obama did bring in health care reform.  Hmm, that would make it appear that the last two Democrat presidents didn't do what you said. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 hours ago, ants said:

Absolutely.  Except, oh wait, Clinton tried to bring in healthcare reform, and Obama did bring in health care reform.  Hmm, that would make it appear that the last two Democrat presidents didn't do what you said. 

I’m not sure that I would say that health insurance reform qualifies as “heath care” reform.  

One of my complaints about the ACA, from its inception, was that it addressed a symptom (inability to get health insurance) rather than the problem, the high cost of health care. 

[OldGimletEye]

10 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

One of my complaints about the ACA, from its inception, was that it addressed a symptom (inability to get health insurance) rather than the problem, the high cost of health care. 

Well there is evidence that the ACA did help to control prices, unless you're a doofus from the American Enterprise Institute and use the wrong price index.

But, anyway, I'd agree that more needs to be done with cost containment and it needs to be talked about more. That of course will be hard political fight because ultimately the money is going to come out of somebody's ass.

[sologdin]

health care reform (as distinguished from health insurance reform) in the US has a tendency to go the wrong direction, and is named other things.  we've had for instance 'tort reform' in louisiana, which includes the effect of making medical malpractice claims more difficult to establish: short statute of limitation; first step as a medical review panel of three physicians, which can take years; cap on general damages; and the generalized state-of-the-art standard of care about how doctorin' be hard.  this last has the effect of physicians being able to kill a patient and state i fucked up--and not be liable.  all of it makes health care worse--and yet the promised benefit of tort reform is not delivered--medical care is as yet still exorbitant here.  meanwhile the state has in excess of 35% of its total population on medicaid.

[Guest]

@Tywin et al.

Giving credit where it's due.

Pork processor in South Dakota is closing because about 10% of it's workers are infected with coronavirus. This one installation provides about 5% of the total pork in the U.S.

Thousands of gallons of fresh milk being dumped, and hundreds of thousands of acres, or more, of crops being plowed under.

Visits to food banks skyrocket.

One of these things is not like the other. Needs more freedumb.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

42 minutes ago, sologdin said:

health care reform (as distinguished from health insurance reform) in the US has a tendency to go the wrong direction, and is named other things.  we've had for instance 'tort reform' in louisiana, which includes the effect of making medical malpractice claims more difficult to establish: short statute of limitation; first step as a medical review panel of three physicians, which can take years; cap on general damages; and the generalized state-of-the-art standard of care about how doctorin' be hard.  this last has the effect of physicians being able to kill a patient and state i fucked up--and not be liable.  all of it makes health care worse--and yet the promised benefit of tort reform is not delivered--medical care is as yet still exorbitant here.  meanwhile the state has in excess of 35% of its total population on medicaid.

Medical Malpractice is a difficult situation.  

Many Plaintiff’s attorneys want to conflate a bad outcome with the Physician “fucking up”.  Simply because a physician didn’t achieve a perfectly positive outcome in a time sensitive situation where the pressure was on to find the perfect solution (where such solution may not exist) does not mean the physician was negligent.

However, it is much easier to paint a sympathetic plaintiff to a jury of lay people without medical expertise as having been injured by a physician in a similar circumstance.

Med Mal is difficult, and should be.  Is a physician, who on top of having someone’s life in their hands, has to worry about a patient suing them if the outcome isn’t perfect going to do a better or worse job as a doctor?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

42 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

@Tywin et al.

Giving credit where it's due.

Pork processor in South Dakota is closing because about 10% of it's workers are infected with coronavirus. This one installation provides about 5% of the total pork in the U.S.

Thousands of gallons of fresh milk being dumped, and hundreds of thousands of acres, or more, of crops being plowed under.

Visits to food banks skyrocket.

One of these things is not like the other. Needs more freedumb.

 

[Gareth]

35 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Med Mal is difficult, and should be.  Is a physician, who on top of having someone’s life in their hands, has to worry about a patient suing them if the outcome isn’t perfect going to do a better or worse job as a doctor?

Not sure if the doctor will do a better or worse job.   From numerous economic studies, doctors do a more expensive job by ordering unnecessary labs or procedures to rule out very very unlikely diagnoses, ie increase health care costs.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

Quit being right then, fucker!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

16 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Not sure if the doctor will do a better or worse job.   From numerous economic studies, doctors do a more expensive job by ordering unnecessary labs or procedures to rule out very very unlikely diagnoses, ie increase health care costs.

Yup.  It is harder to call them negligent when they check for everything.  That drives up costs.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

22 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Quit being right then, fucker!

Plus side is I think things have actually been contained, at least until that idiot fires Fauci.

But the federal government is going to have to dumb trillions more to reverse a lot of this.

Yay fixing the national debt? 

[Week]

I can't believe that Trump continues to push a too early reopening. The relative (potential) safety and narrative of waiting for Independence Day seems obvious. Any criticism is a direct attack on our freedumbs on our independence day. Easy.

[Rippounet]

14 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

CNN Poll has Biden with an 11 point lead over Trump.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/12/biden-poll-sanders-out-axelrod-sot-ip-vpx.cnn

Is no one reacting to this because it's too good to be true and people no longer dare to hope the nightmare might end?

Has everyone here been contaminated by Jace's pessimism?

[Fragile Bird]

The first death of a sailor from the Roosevelt has been announced. He had been in the hospital for respiratory help, and then released 4 days ago and was in a house with other recovering sailors. They were regularly checked by medical staff but was found unresponsive and died.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

Is no one reacting to this because it's too good to be true and people no longer dare to hope the nightmare might end?

Has everyone here been contaminated by Jace's pessimism?

For me, I think it's because I feel polls right now are essentially meaningless. Everything that came before now is out the window, and Trump will be either voted out or re-elected based solely on the perception of his handling of this crisis.

If, by some miracle, the country is able to open up earlier than expected, the economic damage is relatively contained, and people feel like the economy is on the rebound in November, he will get re-elected. If people don't feel that way, then he won't.

I think it's really come down to that now. Biden, Bernie, Warren, Harris, Maryanne Williamson; hell, even if Obama was nominated again somehow, I don't think it would matter. It's all going to come down to how Trump (or more precisely, how the people having to carry this idiot of a President through any tough times), is perceived on his handling of the pandemic and economic fallout.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Also, Biden's average lead is ~6 points amongst registered voters, and usually you lose ~4ish points when you switch to likely voters. Further, Trump can withstand 3-4 points in the popular vote and still win the EC because of his relatively good standing in the battleground states.

There havent been serious inroads made in the Obama-Trump voters yet, and Trump has a solid lead in the 'whites without college degree' making it (currently) still a toss up election.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

23 hours ago, karaddin said:

On a completely different note of pessimism: what the fuck was that NYT tweet for their story on Biden? They've deleted it now after getting dragged to hell and back, for those that haven't seen, it was literally

"No other allegation about sexual assault surfaced in the course of our reporting, nor did any former Biden staff corroborate Reade's allegation. We found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Biden, beyond hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable"

Yup, no sexual misconduct once classify all the sexual misconduct A-OK. And we that's so ok that we put it in our reporting like that. If that's the best spin they can come up with for Biden I don't think Trump is going to feel any need to do any more with the election than the voter suppression already in the bag.

And the dismissal of Reade is really troubling for so many reasons. I've read the "problems with Reade's story" stories, and I see nothing different there than any other woman who felt scared, silenced, unable to come forward, etc. Much like Kavanaugh ascending to the highest court in the U.S., if what Reade says is true, I can see her concerns with Biden becoming the executive of the U.S. This is actually a critique of her, the old, "Why didn't you come forward sooner?"

The Dems unified behind a seriously flawed candidate. Obama getting involved really has lowered my estimation of him.

Edit: Given everything I just wrote, though, I suppose this might not tank Biden's chances in this country. It might garner him support for being the "next victim" of Me Too.

[Fez]

1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Also, Biden's average lead is ~6 points amongst registered voters, and usually you lose ~4ish points when you switch to likely voters. Further, Trump can withstand 3-4 points in the popular vote and still win the EC because of his relatively good standing in the battleground states.

I wonder if that's still true now that the Democratic coalition contains more suburban whites, who are generally extremely likely voters. On top of that, likely voter screens are only as good as their assumptions, and those assumptions might simply not have adjusted to the latest changes in voter behavior.

For instance, in April 2018, an ABC poll found Democrats with a 10 point lead over Republican on the generic congressional ballot among registered voters; among likely voters that fell to a 4 point lead. In November 2018, Democrats beat Republicans by 8.6 points on the cumulative House vote. Polls are only a snapshot in time, so maybe Democrats did improve their standing from April to November that year; but in April, the registered voter poll had more predictive power than the likely voter poll.

 

In other news, a reminder of one of the other public health crises in America...

And all it took as shutting down all the schools.

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Is no one reacting to this because it's too good to be true and people no longer dare to hope the nightmare might end?

Has everyone here been contaminated by Jace's pessimism?

It's one poll in April.  Even in regular times it wouldn't mean all that much.

22 minutes ago, Fez said:

I wonder if that's still true now that the Democratic coalition contains more suburban whites, who are generally extremely likely voters.

The gap's been narrowing in recent years, yes.  Further, measuring likely voters this early is unreliable - the differences between likely/registered voters only durably emerge in the last few months of a presidential cycle (i.e. around the conventions).

[DireWolfSpirit]

5 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m not sure that I would say that health insurance reform qualifies as “heath care” reform.  

One of my complaints about the ACA, from its inception, was that it addressed a symptom (inability to get health insurance) rather than the problem, the high cost of health care. 

The cost of U.S. healthcare for a generation now, has been the greatest untalked about and unnadressed crime of the post WW2 era.

The total cost has to now be close to 20% of the GDP and trending towards a quarter of that. That is a criminal state of affairs. I feel organized crime or Narcos would run a more fair system than what the average American is now saddled/burdened with.

Yet people just sit back and make excuses and continually take it up the backside year after year after year for decades now.