Mrstrategy Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 What should Ned Stark have done as hand to secure his safety as well as do his job as best as he could? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 First he should have get rid of Littlefinger and Slynt. Secondly got more loyal men to KL. I assume that he could have imported enough men from White Harbor via ships. If he had done those he might have been strong enough to move against Cercei. Naturally assuming that he would not have died by "spoiled food" or another fatal "accident". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Mrstrategy said: What should Ned Stark have done as hand to secure his safety as well as do his job as best as he could? Tell Robert the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Stop being honorable fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 It seems to me that Ned didn't feel he needed to be secure until very close to his capture. I think he anticipated being relieved of his duties and sent home, which was really where he wanted to be anyway. We see a lot of Hands missing their families in B&F. They weren't all superstars and some brought their children with them and some were fairly short lived. But Ned was ours to dissect. In the end all I could do was try to understand the exact moment he should have fled or gone all in. He had a great out when he walked. He would not support the royally sponsored assassination of another Targaryan child--that's what caused the original fight between Ned and Robert and Robert did eventually resign himself to the wrongness of the political ideal. Ned really was a white hat. People like that don't think in savage terms. He tried to be macho with Jamie and lost, but he saved a little face and showed some spunk there. He wasn't a punk at all, only a good-hearted man with desire to have his position in his place with his family. Honestly, I'm not sure who Robert had to pick from to replace Jon Arryn. A guy you know is incorruptible might be a really valuable asset. It seemed much to me that Robert was hoping Ned would fix things he knew were broken--maybe even that all his loyal subjects would have high regard for the man he regarded highly. So as Hand I don't think Ned had all the options that our objectivity allows. I'm not sure I would have handled any of Ned's situations a whole lot differently than he did, at least I would hope so. Not so much naivete as just he's not built to destroy things. I would have figured out how to get Cersei and her children out of Kings Landing rather than confronting her. We already know he doesn't take well to killing children. He was trying to save her children and she laughed at him. Even Cersei didn't believe Ned deserved death--humiliation, banishment, the Wall, but not death. That's a lot considering the last bits of Cersei we got to know who would kill her own banner men (Crownlands). Maybe have the younger children hidden until Stannis came to take his rightful place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Ned made several mistakes Starting the way he left the north He was leaving winterfell when Bran was still into coma, with Catelyn being cleary unable to deal with the situation that was presented to her, she was very unstable, and in his eyes Robb was just a kid. Then it had the Mance Ryder problem that he left on the hands of Robb and Cat without any order or instruction on how to deal with that, he went on to make more problems for himself when he decided to bring Arya to KL, it was a move that was not needed and is counter intuitive, he knows that the capital is a dangerous place, he thinks Jon Arryn was killed, why was he bringing his girl to that mess? Huge mistake. Then once in the capital Ned made everything on his power to left himself open, when Janos Slynt is incapable of securing the city, instead of replacing him with a loyal subject that would put the golden cloak on his hands, he hands him his household guard and weaken his position, his biggest allys in the council are Barristan( by character) and Robert(by bond), but he goes on to relly on LF and Pycelle. He does not pay much mind to obvious strange behaviours like Stannis trying to ban prostitution but going with Jon Arryn to a brothel or the lack of response from Stannis when being summoned. When he decides to move against Tywin he doesn't listen to Varys into sending Loras, if he did it, at the very least he could stop the whole lion/rose alliance, he also allows Sansa to go to Cersei without any tutor or another adult, he should also had removed Sansa and Arya from KL before moving against Cersei, he knew that what he was doing was risk, but left himself open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Newman Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 He should have condemned Catelyn for abducting Tyrion Lannister and promised cooperation with the Lannisters in exchange for them leaving the Riverlands alone. Duty first family later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Kept Robert alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanro Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 1. Bring more than just 50 men to King's Landing. When Robert and his retinue visited Winterfell, I'm pretty sure all the Northern lords also came to attend. Ned could've commanded them to contribute men to his new assignment in the capital and they would've readily complied, if not even eager to do so, and 20 to 30 men per lord would've been easy to do. If there's issue about time, then he could ask only from his southerly lords, such as Cerwyn, Manderly, Dustin and a few others. A total of 200 would be a good number. Power is power, and power needs to be projected to make would-be foe think twice. In AGOT Renly has 100 men in KL, the Lannisters most likely have more, the Gold Cloaks definitely have more but they're supposed to be neutral. Ned should've risen up to the occasion; being king's best friend - and everybody's knowing the that fact - is all nice and good, but he needs to stand on his own merit, and since he couldn't possibly bring wealth and pomp in his person (unlike, say, Tywin if it was he who was appointed) then he should've brought more swords. This posturing, I believe, would've brought so much more deterrence later on when plotters tried to second-guess him. 2. Stand up to the Baratheons and don't execute Lady. Just because he should. It wasn't Lady that bit Joffrey. And I don't remember how it's written in the book, but on tv even Robert scoffed Joffrey for letting a girl beat him, so I don't think Robert would've minded too much if Ned didn't execute Lady in place of Nymeria, it's such Cersei's bitching that would endless. 3. Move quicker in sending Sansa and Arya home. Like, right that evening he should've moved them. And escort each of his daughter with dozens of his own swords, not just a few guards that he did. And in separate ships if possible. If Ned would later be killed anyway but Sansa and Arya were safely home, then the Lannisters had no bargaining chip, Catelyn had no mother's fear, and Jaime would not be released, leaving the outcome of WotFK not so conclusive. I've heard it being said that it's out of character for Ned to think 'strategically', i.e. being a few steps ahead, to solidify his position by moving his daughters out of potentially disadvantageous situation. I don't this is out of character, really, he was already doing it, I would only urge him to do it more quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Take. Control. It's really that simple. Once everything starts unraveling all he had to do was make full use of the power bestowed upon him. Didn't Robert make him 'Protector of the Realm'? You don't get much higher in positions than that. That he thought he could just wave a piece of paper around and everyone would honor it (especially the freaking Lannisters), was just bonkers. He should have removed/replaced the entire small council and taken Cersei and her children into custody. He should have assembled men of whose loyalty there was no doubt. Put people in charge of the City Watch and Gold Cloaks whose loyalty he assured. And he should have send his children on their way back home long before he even reached KL, the Trident incident had warning bells ringing so loudly he should have been deaf after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 On 6/12/2020 at 12:16 PM, Mrstrategy said: What should Ned Stark have done as hand to secure his safety as well as do his job as best as he could? If he did it differently we would have a different story all together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I'm going to put out an outlier opinion here. Everyone's micromanaging the mistakes he made and what he should've done both with the benefit of hindsight and ignoring the limitations of Ned's character. I think his biggest mistake as Hand of the King was accepting the job. He was not a person with the foresight and flexibility to succeed in the role as the results clearly show. It was not a position he aspired to and it was only for the sake of his friendship with Robert that he took it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Wolf's Den Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I guess he should have accepted Renly's help after Robert died. His immediate objective was to stop Cersei (through Joffery) from taking control. With Renly's help he could have taken Joffery from his mother's clutches. Others would have helped him too. Bronze Yohn Royce was a friend of Eddard and Ser Loras and the Redwyne twins could have been presauded by Renly. Even Ser Balon Swann could have helped. But poor Eddard was not made for this political maneuvering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanro Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Knight of Wolf's Den said: I guess he should have accepted Renly's help after Robert died. His immediate objective was to stop Cersei (through Joffery) from taking control. With Renly's help he could have taken Joffery from his mother's clutches. Others would have helped him too. Bronze Yohn Royce was a friend of Eddard and Ser Loras and the Redwyne twins could have been presauded by Renly. Even Ser Balon Swann could have helped. But poor Eddard was not made for this political maneuvering. There was no way he would put Renly before Stannis, that much was clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 3 hours ago, ivanro said: There was no way he would put Renly before Stannis, that much was clear. Renly didn't offer him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 On 6/12/2020 at 9:44 PM, Victor Newman said: He should have condemned Catelyn for abducting Tyrion Lannister and promised cooperation with the Lannisters in exchange for them leaving the Riverlands alone. Duty first family later. And yet being your wife’s judge is bad. Remember in Excalibur when Guinevere lost her love for Arthur when he refused to defend her against Gawain’s accusations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanro Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 hours ago, frenin said: Renly didn't offer him that. Oh, yeah, my memory is a bit hazy. Renly offered Ned to secure the children, right? And when Ned refused, that's when he fled the city with his hundred men and headed to the Reach? For some reason I thought Renly wanted Ned's support for his claim to succeed Robert, but I guess this didn't happen, or at least didn't happen directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 27 minutes ago, ivanro said: Oh, yeah, my memory is a bit hazy. Renly offered Ned to secure the children, right? And when Ned refused, that's when he fled the city with his hundred men and headed to the Reach? For some reason I thought Renly wanted Ned's support for his claim to succeed Robert, but I guess this didn't happen, or at least didn't happen directly. What you're thinking only happened in the show. In the books Renly wants the children under Ned's watch until he is confirmed as regent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanro Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 10 hours ago, frenin said: What you're thinking only happened in the show. In the books Renly wants the children under Ned's watch until he is confirmed as regent. Ah, yes yes, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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