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US Politics: Butter Not Guns

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Trump inquired about having his face added to Mt Rushmore.  Because of course he did.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Trump et. al. made an historic miscalculation with this harebrained Rube Goldberg-esque scheme to try and provoke Democrats into suing over the executive orders, all in order to win some kind of stupid messaging war.

Congressional Democrats won't have to sue; states will sue first, and they have much better claim to standing, i would imagine, as they'd be directly impacted by the decision.

States will either opt out of the enhanced payments, or will sue to block them because they'll have to pony up an extra $100/week for everyone claiming unemployment.  

The orders also don't appear to address small business assistance (not that I've seen anyway), which means we will see spiking unemployment numbers in the months leading up to the election. Republicans won't be able to spin messaging about failure to come to a compromise because the news will only be covering the increasing rates of homelessness, poverty, and hunger. I'm not saying that this will ensure a Trump loss, but I am saying that the only way he'll be able to win is if the massive civil unrest interferes with voting.

This is a bluff, and I'm fairly certain that Pelosi knows it's a bluff. I'm desperately hoping she's earned enough trust in her caucus, Schumer in his as well, to convince their members to hold the line. She's earned my trust: ; I was concerned by Hoyer's comments before negotiations commenced, but she has been relentless in her messaging and negotiating and has expertly avoided the many Republican land mines so far. If Democrats can hold their line, Republicans will come crawling back begging for any deal.

If Democrats can hold the line for the next few weeks, they'll be able to dictate terms in the bill that gets passed. This tactic is breathtaking in its stupidity.

It looks like a really terrible bluff. The UE executive order is even worse than that. It sets up a new program to distribute those funds which would take months to do. And that's if the states pony up those funds and the federal funds are actually provided. And all this so that Republicans can cut the generous benefits down to 400. Apparently the 200 was a lie, too, as they seem to have abandoned that position.

It doesn't look like the eviction order will work as intended. The Student loan one is probably the only one that will work as intended. I'm not sure about the payroll taxes one, but it seems pretty fishy. Also seems a bad political move, as Biden is already smashing Trump about raiding Social Security and Medicare funds.

Also, where is our stimulus payment? If Trump can just move money around at will like a King, why is he being so cheap?

Edited by Martell Spy

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I was watching a report on CNN this morning about the right wing media attacks on Biden, especially on radio. I'd tell you the names of the radio hosts involved but, since none of them were familiar to me, I can't remember a single one. The talking point is that Biden is old and decrepit, cannot form a sentence, is not hiding in the basement, is actually sequestered in a nursing home, and, the best one of all, will act as president for 3 months and then afterwards the job of president wll be taken over "by the communist he appoints as vice president".

Somewhat on a more positive note, Fox actually broadcast a scene of Biden, his wife, other family members and secret service, going on a bike ride yesterday. No wonder Trump is constantly bad-mouthing Fox.

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3 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Trump inquired about having his face added to Mt Rushmore.  Because of course he did.

I think you should totally do it.

That way, pretty much all the murcians will look at it with a mixture of shame and anger, just like the Native Americans do right now.

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9 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I think you should totally do it.

That way, pretty much all the murcians will look at it with a mixture of shame and anger, just like the Native Americans do right now.

Nooooo! We can't. I can already predict the dumb-ass thing he would say.

"The African Americans? They love me! They even carved my face into the Black Hills."

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4 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I was watching a report on CNN this morning about the right wing media attacks on Biden, especially on radio. I'd tell you the names of the radio hosts involved but, since none of them were familiar to me, I can't remember a single one. The talking point is that Biden is old and decrepit, cannot form a sentence, is not hiding in the basement, is actually sequestered in a nursing home, and, the best one of all, will act as president for 3 months and then afterwards the job of president wll be taken over "by the communist he appoints as vice president".

Somewhat on a more positive note, Fox actually broadcast a scene of Biden, his wife, other family members and secret service, going on a bike ride yesterday. No wonder Trump is constantly bad-mouthing Fox.

It's a race to the bottom. The only way to get ahead in right wing media is to be to the right of whoever you're talking with.

It's amazing Shep Smith lasted as long as he did at Faux.

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Posted (edited)

So S.S. and Medicare gutted and a payroll tax cut that employees, without collective bargaining packages, may not even receive.

I could see numerous RTW, Red state employers, just refusing to pass on the employee half of the payroll cut. Get ready to read about that happening in Texas real soon for instance.

Edited by DireWolfSpirit

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4 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Would love to better understand the implications of these big post office moves by Trump.  Sounds bad.  

Laying the tracks to call the election rigged. He really does want to be Putin.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

It looks like a really terrible bluff. The UE executive order is even worse than that. It sets up a new program to distribute those funds which would take months to do. And that's if the states pony up those funds and the federal funds are actually provided. And all this so that Republicans can cut the generous benefits down to 400. Apparently the 200 was a lie, too, as they seem to have abandoned that position.

It doesn't look like the eviction order will work as intended. The Student loan one is probably the only one that will work as intended. I'm not sure about the payroll taxes one, but it seems pretty fishy. Also seems a bad political move, as Biden is already smashing Trump about raiding Social Security and Medicare funds.

Also, where is our stimulus payment? If Trump can just move money around at will like a King, why is he being so cheap?

It's looking like a worse and worse bluff because Democrats don't seem to be taking the bait (not that it wasn't blindingly obvious as to what they were up to).

I haven't looked at the student loan one yet, but thus far, none of them work as advertised. The eviction one is more of a guideline, the payroll tax cut may not even be passed on to employees, and then the employees would have to pay the back taxes next year. Then, to take the cake, I will be shocked if anyone on unemployment ever sees that extra $400/week. There are so many strings attached that no state will ever pony up the required $100/week/individual on unemployment.

I did some quick back of the envelope math: assuming they were able to retrofit a system to pay out these new benefits by next week, there are 100,000 people currently receiving unemployment benefits in my state. An extra $100/week through the end of the year would be close to $200 million. Trump says the states can pay out of the CARES Act funding, but my state only received $1 billion. The EO also doesn't appear to account for the gig workers receiving $600/week through the PUA program, which also expired on the 31st.

It's becoming increasingly clear that Democrats didn't push too hard; they offered a $2 trillion price tag, which is a huge come-down. This EO gambit appears to have Trump's fingerprints all over it. It's so clumsy and obvious, I can't see anyone thinking of something so dumb, unless it's Kushner.

Edited by The Great Unwashed

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Posted (edited)

I have watched Larry Kudlow's interview on CNN this morning three times now, and I still can't figure out what he said.  Those right wing radio talk hosts should run that as a fine example of Republican leadership.

Edited by Fragile Bird

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Posted (edited)

The first thing I do when I log onto work tomorrow is to find out if there a way to not participate in this hairbrained plan.

I don't want to have to owe even more taxes next year than I normally do. Where will I get that money from?

 

Edited by Lany Freelove Cassandra

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Can I ask people in the US if Joe Biden is as silent as he seems? I realise the approach seems to be to just let Trump keep digging himself into a hole but when I google Biden or go to US news outlets I never see interviews or anything much. Bike riding really doesn't count! I do see the occasional policy release but it's not like he is out there selling anything. 

I can't help thinking as soon as the electorate sees the reality of a female VP running mate he will slip in the polls. and the polling is not good enough anyway.

sorry to be negative just have to let the anxiety out.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Castellan said:

Can I ask people in the US if Joe Biden is as silent as he seems? I realise the approach seems to be to just let Trump keep digging himself into a hole but when I google Biden or go to US news outlets I never see interviews or anything much. Bike riding really doesn't count! I do see the occasional policy release but it's not like he is out there selling anything. 

I can't help thinking as soon as the electorate sees the reality of a female VP running mate he will slip in the polls. and the polling is not good enough anyway.

sorry to be negative just have to let the anxiety out.

I think the polls will tighten as November approaches, and they already have. However, I suspect the VP choice won't have much effect one way or the other. 

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On 8/7/2020 at 11:17 PM, Reny of Storms End said:

So to me it looks like the reason the stimulus talks went nowhere is so now Trump can claim he's gonna save the American people via executive action. What are the chances this is the reason for the failures, and that this strategy pays off?

I say it's too little too late. People have been suffering since March while the President and Senate Republicans dick around and don't do anything. If we get another few months of eviction protection when an estimated millions of homes are sitting on eviction notices, it's literally the least that can be done. The payroll tax shit is something no one cares about either because it won't help one single bit in terms of bringing home extra money in the short term.

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9 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

It looks like a really terrible bluff. The UE executive order is even worse than that. It sets up a new program to distribute those funds which would take months to do. And that's if the states pony up those funds and the federal funds are actually provided. And all this so that Republicans can cut the generous benefits down to 400. Apparently the 200 was a lie, too, as they seem to have abandoned that position.

It doesn't look like the eviction order will work as intended. The Student loan one is probably the only one that will work as intended. I'm not sure about the payroll taxes one, but it seems pretty fishy. Also seems a bad political move, as Biden is already smashing Trump about raiding Social Security and Medicare funds.

Also, where is our stimulus payment? If Trump can just move money around at will like a King, why is he being so cheap?

The worst thing about the stimulus money is it means you won't get a refund in the Spring. They're being cheap with money that isn't theirs. 

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Posted (edited)

Trump says he's open to allowing unemployed to get enhanced benefits without states paying part of the cost

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/politics/trump-unemployment-benefits-states-cost/index.html

Quote

 

(CNN)President Donald Trump opened the door on Sunday to allowing some unemployed Americans to get enhanced unemployment benefits even if the states in which they live won't pay part of the costs.

His comments come just one day after he signed a memorandum that would require states to agree to enter into a financial arrangement with the federal government for any unemployed person living there to get any of the additional benefits.
Under the memorandum, the federal government would require states to pick up the tab for 25% (or $100) of the $400 additional benefit each person may able to receive weekly in additional aid -- an initiative that was immediately criticized by several governors because of how financially strapped many states are due to the coronavirus.
But Trump said Sunday it was possible that the federal government could pick up the entire cost if governors make a request.
"We have a system where we can do 100% or we can do 75%, they pay 25, and it will depend on the state," he said to reporters before returning to the White House from his resort in New Jersey. "And they will make a application. We will look at it, and we'll make a decision."

 

 

Edited by Martell Spy

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24 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Trump says he's open to allowing unemployed to get enhanced benefits without states paying part of the cost

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/politics/trump-unemployment-benefits-states-cost/index.html

 

That's a flat-out lie. He obviously made it up on the spot.

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44 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

That's a flat-out lie. He obviously made it up on the spot.

Hmmmm? The president spoke?

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On 8/8/2020 at 11:27 PM, Tywin et al. said:

People who know someone is conning everyone, and then instead of taking a principled stand, do what's best for their own short term interests....

What could possibli go wrong?

In the long run, it's the sum of the short term.  Democracy isn't perfect, but I don't think the anti populist bias you seemed to be showing is healthy either.  And not sure what you mean exactly about "conning everyone", when you correct for the media filter, Trump has tried to complete far more of what promised than anyone since Reagan at least.  I don't want someone to grow in office, I want someone who tries to do what he or she says they'll do.

21 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said:

So then you agree, that police unions that endorse Republicans cannot be trusted to police Democratic areas (like cities) and Democratic leaning voters (like BIPOC) entirely fairly?

Not the same K.  Do I really need to explain why counting the votes for those who make the laws needs a much higher standard than enforcing the laws derived from fair elections?  (I think we're in the midst of a breakdown because trust has been destroyed, but who wants to go on record now that post office would be scrupulously fair in the event of a mostly by mail election?)

Towards the other question, fundamentally, do you see law enforcement's role as protecting the people or oppressing them?  Go ahead and hold republicans to their own standards.  That's only fair.  We each should be accountable for our own actions.   But why is law enforcement akin to an election? 

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