Star Trek: Keeping Up With the Cardassians

[Werthead]

4 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

That sounds linked to that short where the Discovery was abandoned. So if they do that, we'll get a Discovery with a self aware AI.

Well yes, Calypso is that short.

It might be a more prosaic situation where they decided it would be completely unfeasible to not upgrade the Discovery with 32nd Century technology, but that would also mean clashing with Calypso. Eventually they said sod it.

The other explanation is that they're not intending the differences to stick and Discovery will have to revert to its prior appearance at some point.

The AI being self-aware is more explicable now if we assume that the ship's computer has merged with the sphere data, as seems to be happening in Season 3.

[DaveSumm]

43 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Well yes, Calypso is that short.

It might be a more prosaic situation where they decided it would be completely unfeasible to not upgrade the Discovery with 32nd Century technology, but that would also mean clashing with Calypso. Eventually they said sod it.

The other explanation is that they're not intending the differences to stick and Discovery will have to revert to its prior appearance at some point.

The AI being self-aware is more explicable now if we assume that the ship's computer has merged with the sphere data, as seems to be happening in Season 3.

It would’ve worked better if they’d simply left the ‘A’ off the registry, seeing as we’ve already established that refits don’t count (the Enterprise had one for The Motion Picture, and kept its registry). The nacelles you can just explain with programmable matter; they’re currently programmed to be invisible, but I assume you can change that at will.

[Werthead]

35 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

It would’ve worked better if they’d simply left the ‘A’ off the registry, seeing as we’ve already established that refits don’t count (the Enterprise had one for The Motion Picture, and kept its registry). The nacelles you can just explain with programmable matter; they’re currently programmed to be invisible, but I assume you can change that at will.

True. The Enterprise refit in TMP may have been even more thorough than this one, as well.

[SpaceChampion]

I thought the voice of the Discovery's AI in Calypso and that recent episode talking to Saru sounded like Dichen Lachman, but apparently it's Annabelle Wallis.

[Aemon Stark]

On 11/13/2020 at 4:55 PM, dog-days said:

So, I've learnt that David Cronenberg looks strikingly like Michael from The Good Place. Thanks for the life lesson, Star Trek. 

I enjoy that we've reached the point that Ted Danson is now mainly known as "Michael from The Good Place". 

On 11/17/2020 at 2:07 PM, Jace, Basilissa said:

Why is Picard making a speech a problem? 

Never is. Particularly when you have someone like Q as the audience:

https://youtu.be/E4gbsBlJwo4

[Lightning Lord]

On 11/21/2020 at 7:27 AM, williamjm said:

I do wonder if maybe the reason the Admiral always dismisses the idea of trying to figure out cause of the Burn is that he already knows but it's classified.

I think the self-sealing stem bolts were my favourite Easter egg.

I wonder if it's going to turn out that some element of The Federation caused The Burn? I also loved that easter egg!

 

Credit that this week's (now last week's, I guess) episode of STDMB for showing consequences, stupid as they are.

Spoiler

Seems like a terrible idea to keep someone on the bridge that used to be the second in command. Many of the crew look to Michael for leadership and she has a habit of doing whatever she wants, so this seems like a recipe for confusion?

Are they setting up Michael leaving Star Fleet? She says a lot about loving Star Fleet and The Federation, but she regularly undercuts her superiors and largely does whatever she wants. I know that since she's the protagonist, we're supposed to root for her and her actions will always be right, but the blatant and constant insubordination and dereliction of duty...she's in a military organization, not an anarcho-syndacalist commune.

I have to rewatch earlier episodes. I didn't understand when/where Georgiou's illness came from.

 

[karaddin]

2 hours ago, Lightning Lord said:

I wonder if it's going to turn out that some element of The Federation caused The Burn? I also loved that easter egg!

 

Credit that this week's (now last week's, I guess) episode of STDMB for showing consequences, stupid as they are.

  Hide contents

Seems like a terrible idea to keep someone on the bridge that used to be the second in command. Many of the crew look to Michael for leadership and she has a habit of doing whatever she wants, so this seems like a recipe for confusion?

Are they setting up Michael leaving Star Fleet? She says a lot about loving Star Fleet and The Federation, but she regularly undercuts her superiors and largely does whatever she wants. I know that since she's the protagonist, we're supposed to root for her and her actions will always be right, but the blatant and constant insubordination and dereliction of duty...she's in a military organization, not an anarcho-syndacalist commune.

I have to rewatch earlier episodes. I didn't understand when/where Georgiou's illness came from.

 

Couple of points

Spoiler

I don't think we are supposed to root for her in this case, this is them attempting to address the complaints that are peppered through the thread. That's why we got Saru's perspective on it, and particularly the conversation with Tilly. 

I think Georgiou's illness came from the Cronenberg character last week - that's when we started seeing it.

 

[Rippounet]

About Georgiou:

Michael said they'd found out about a Terran gene controling their agressivity didn't he? Obviously they injected her with something to inhibit it.

Except now she's quickly becoming useless.

[Lightning Lord]

Cheers to those who were more observant than me

Hope they can sort out that illness. I love-hate that character. (she's lawful evil - fun to watch, but glad I'm over here and she's over there...and fictional).

karaddin - I actually didn't mean this time, just in general. Sorry for the poor clarity of my writing.

Spoiler

I could get into the idea of Michael trying to decide if she is still keen to stay in Starfleet, but not because they turned evil? Just that their respective priorities diverged over the course of time and Michael needs to explore if it's still the right path... leaving the viewer thinking "Well, she's right.... but they're right, too..." Could be fun drama.

 

[karaddin]

16 hours ago, Lightning Lord said:

Cheers to those who were more observant than me

Hope they can sort out that illness. I love-hate that character. (she's lawful evil - fun to watch, but glad I'm over here and she's over there...and fictional).

karaddin - I actually didn't mean this time, just in general. Sorry for the poor clarity of my writing.

  Hide contents

I could get into the idea of Michael trying to decide if she is still keen to stay in Starfleet, but not because they turned evil? Just that their respective priorities diverged over the course of time and Michael needs to explore if it's still the right path... leaving the viewer thinking "Well, she's right.... but they're right, too..." Could be fun drama.

 

Ah in that case

Spoiler

I have to believe they're going somewhere with it because it just seems too blatant a conflict to be depicting without realising you're doing it. I feel the same about a critique I've seen about Star Fleet not having thought of checking the black boxes - we have to wait and see where it goes, if the burn was caused by an accident but Star Fleet were the one's that made the mistake then the disinterest in searching for answers in a deniable way makes sense. I wouldnt want it to be intentional though, an accident doesn't damn them or require them to have lost their way.

 

[Tyria]

I just finished another re-watch of DS9 recently, which is my favourite Trek, and one of my all-time favourite shows. It's the only Trek where I liked all the characters rather than just a few (actually I guess that's true for Lower Decks too. Love it!). The only one I really complain about is Bashir. I find him annoying (especially with women, ick), but I like him with Miles. The only characters I cared about or enjoyed watching for the other series: ToS: Spock and Bones; TNG: Data, Picard, Worf, Q; Voyager: Tuvok , Seven, the Doctor; Enterprise: the dog; Picard: Seven; Discovery: the cat. The rest are either pretty meh or just plain suck. 

Plus I can count on one hand how many weak episodes there are for DS9. It doesn't suffer from having the first two seasons be total crap (or several in Voyager's case). I think if you made a list of all the bad/weak episodes of all the series, DS9's end up not seeming so bad in comparison. 

Watched the latest ep of Discovery last night. This show is sadly just so meh. And the constant background music is suuuuper annoying, and sometimes overtakes the dialogue. I could barely pay attention to what was going on. I don't think I've ever watched a show where there is music throughout the entire episode. It's so pointlessly distracting. 

Mr Tyr likes it, so I'll keep watching, but it's really not that great. The characters are all so annoying. I really want to enjoy it and care what happens, but I just don't. Meh. Hopefully they'll add more cat.

[RumHam]

That was a bad episode.

 

I'm so confused. How long was Michael's mom with those dumb honesty monk's from Picard? It seems like it only should have been a year since Michael was expecting to meet her when she arrived in the future? Just what a weird, dumb thing to do with that character. 

I guess it's good that the ritual Michael invoked didn't involve fighting to the death.

Of course Ensign tilly is the new first officer. I maybe would have picked the kid with the knowledge of a dozen plus lifetimes who is familiar with the 31st century. Or you'd think the admiral might want one of his trusted people on the ship in a position of authority. That might have created some nice interpersonal jelico-esque conflict too. 

This is a minor thing but where did that hologram of Spock even come from? I get that it's from Unification II but in universe who recorded it and how? 

 

[Caligula_K3]

2 hours ago, Tyria said:

I just finished another re-watch of DS9 recently, which is my favourite Trek, and one of my all-time favourite shows. It's the only Trek where I liked all the characters rather than just a few (actually I guess that's true for Lower Decks too. Love it!). The only one I really complain about is Bashir. I find him annoying (especially with women, ick), but I like him with Miles. The only characters I cared about or enjoyed watching for the other series: ToS: Spock and Bones; TNG: Data, Picard, Worf, Q; Voyager: Tuvok , Seven, the Doctor; Enterprise: the dog; Picard: Seven; Discovery: the cat. The rest are either pretty meh or just plain suck. 

Plus I can count on one hand how many weak episodes there are for DS9. It doesn't suffer from having the first two seasons be total crap (or several in Voyager's case). I think if you made a list of all the bad/weak episodes of all the series, DS9's end up not seeming so bad in comparison. 

Watched the latest ep of Discovery last night. This show is sadly just so meh. And the constant background music is suuuuper annoying, and sometimes overtakes the dialogue. I could barely pay attention to what was going on. I don't think I've ever watched a show where there is music throughout the entire episode. It's so pointlessly distracting. 

Mr Tyr likes it, so I'll keep watching, but it's really not that great. The characters are all so annoying. I really want to enjoy it and care what happens, but I just don't. Meh. Hopefully they'll add more cat.

Aww, I like Bashir. He was definitely pretty annoying in the first couple seasons, especially with women, but I thought he developed very nicely over the course of the show. Though I do hate that they made him fall in love with Jadzia again towards the end of the show and then had that atrocious Ezri/Bashir romance, which was bad for both characters and handled in the most 90s sitcom way possible.

[sifth]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

That was a bad episode.

  Hide contents

I'm so confused. How long was Michael's mom with those dumb honesty monk's from Picard? It seems like it only should have been a year since Michael was expecting to meet her when she arrived in the future? Just what a weird, dumb thing to do with that character. 

I guess it's good that the ritual Michael invoked didn't involve fighting to the death.

Of course Ensign tilly is the new first officer. I maybe would have picked the kid with the knowledge of a dozen plus lifetimes who is familiar with the 31st century. Or you'd think the admiral might want one of his trusted people on the ship in a position of authority. That might have created some nice interpersonal jelico-esque conflict too. 

This is a minor thing but where did that hologram of Spock even come from? I get that it's from Unification II but in universe who recorded it and how? 

 

I had the same issue with the recording, it literally doesn't make any sense at all. Did Picard have a recording device on him the entire episode, but he never told anyone? I mean heck couldn't they have just found a scene where Data was with Picard and say they were pulling the information from Data's memory files? This honestly seems like such an easy fix, yet the writers couldn't be bothered to do their homework and just wanted to shove another memberberry in the episode.

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

That was a bad episode.

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm so confused. How long was Michael's mom with those dumb honesty monk's from Picard? It seems like it only should have been a year since Michael was expecting to meet her when she arrived in the future? Just what a weird, dumb thing to do with that character. 

I guess it's good that the ritual Michael invoked didn't involve fighting to the death.

Of course Ensign tilly is the new first officer. I maybe would have picked the kid with the knowledge of a dozen plus lifetimes who is familiar with the 31st century. Or you'd think the admiral might want one of his trusted people on the ship in a position of authority. That might have created some nice interpersonal jelico-esque conflict too. 

This is a minor thing but where did that hologram of Spock even come from? I get that it's from Unification II but in universe who recorded it and how? 

 

Certainly a drop after the last two episodes

Spoiler

At least give Tilly a promotion to lieutenant first, ffs, then make her No. 1. She does deserve that promotion first, on account of what she had done in the past. To be honest, not sure the Discovery even needs a no. 1. Michael really didn't do anything that a first officer should do, and they went on fine. Why is Michael still called a commander?

What most disappointed me about the ritual was that it wasn't on the planet. For all the strong visuals this show usually has, having those scenes on some random Discovery corridor instead of a richly decorated set with Vulcan & Romulan themes felt like a cheap SF show.

I'm waiting for a moment when Saru goes: Launch Shuttle 1! One of the officers responds: Can't, Book's ship is in the way! 

 

[Ran]

Spoiler

The Tilly situation is just absurd. Dumb, dumb, dumb. 90% of the crew outranks her, but no, she's just so gosh darned cute that she's the one who should be second in command. I felt my stomach heave at the gross ridiculousness.

Overall, yeah, bad episode.

[Werthead]

That was the weakest episode of the season. Some very good worldbuilding with the Romulans and Vulcans and it's a nice nod to show Spock's dream has come true, but otherwise a fairly nonsensical sequence of events.

As one reviewer put it, "the writers indicate Tilly has been on a tremendous journey of growth and achievement, which would be nice if they'd shared it with us."

[Mindwalker]

8 hours ago, Werthead said:

That was the weakest episode of the season. Some very good worldbuilding with the Romulans and Vulcans and it's a nice nod to show Spock's dream has come true, but otherwise a fairly nonsensical sequence of events.

As one reviewer put it, "the writers indicate Tilly has been on a tremendous journey of growth and achievement, which would be nice if they'd shared it with us."

I'd like to read that review.

As usual, they were lazy: Their "buildup" consisted of the previous episode, in which she really gave Saru good advice regarding Burnham. And it wouldn't have been hard to pull it off: Show a bit more growth and a little less cutesy "that-was-funny-in-the-nineties-when-Willow-Rosenberg-said-it" stuff, promote her to at least t Lieutenant a while back... oh well.

Let's face it: The reason

Spoiler

she got the job

is that she's one of the main three protagonists.

Of course she's only

Spoiler

acting XO

, so if/ when Burnham wants, she'll get it back. Unless she gets the captaincy?

Damn, I really thought the first 4 episodes of this season were much better than s1 and s2.

Not only are we back to "The universe revolves around Burnham", they also squander posibilities of this new world, like really exploring what the concepts of the Federation mean, whether they have changed (they would have in 900 ys, right), or have to change... or how to adapt to this new reality. Instead it's "we know best, we're the best, we'll fix this."

It's boring.

[Tyria]

17 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Aww, I like Bashir. He was definitely pretty annoying in the first couple seasons, especially with women, but I thought he developed very nicely over the course of the show. Though I do hate that they made him fall in love with Jadzia again towards the end of the show and then had that atrocious Ezri/Bashir romance, which was bad for both characters and handled in the most 90s sitcom way possible.

 

*Board ate my previous post...grr*

 I knew someone would disagree! I actually liked him when the show originally aired. It was during my numerous re-watches that he started to get on my nerves. I like him more in the funny scenes, but it's hard to get past the creeper aspects of the character. The whole episode with Sarina is just so gross. I mean, she'd rather go back to being catatonic (or pretending to be) than be pressured into a relationship she clearly didn't want. You could tell even Miles was uncomfortable with his behaviour, but he just said "but she's your patient" not "back the fuck off". And the whole scene where she's upset and apologizing to him?!! Even when he leaned in for the kiss as she was leaving I was like nooo!!!! Get away from her! Just let her go! And he doesn't learn from it.

Despite all that, he's still a better character than the vast majority (almost all) the characters on the other shows.

1 hour ago, Mindwalker said:

 

It's boring.

 

Indeed.

[Caligula_K3]

1 hour ago, Tyria said:

 

*Board ate my previous post...grr*

 I knew someone would disagree! I actually liked him when the show originally aired. It was during my numerous re-watches that he started to get on my nerves. I like him more in the funny scenes, but it's hard to get past the creeper aspects of the character. The whole episode with Sarina is just so gross. I mean, she'd rather go back to being catatonic (or pretending to be) than be pressured into a relationship she clearly didn't want. You could tell even Miles was uncomfortable with his behaviour, but he just said "but she's your patient" not "back the fuck off". And the whole scene where she's upset and apologizing to him?!! Even when he leaned in for the kiss as she was leaving I was like nooo!!!! Get away from her! Just let her go! And he doesn't learn from it.

 

Oh yeah, that episode definitely did not show off the character at his best. But what I appreciate about that episode is that it didn't let Bashir's behaviour off the hook; he was clearly in the wrong and this was shown (whereas early in the episode, I was afraid they were going to try to romanticize it). But you're right that the skeevy elements of his character never quite go away..

Still, what a performance in this scene: