Star Wars: For All Your PT, OT, ST, & AT-AT/ST Needs

[Kalbear]

I remember watching Empire in the theater when I was 6. 

It was BAD FUCKING ASS. 

The first real awesome duel and use of Jedi powers! The training with Yoda and all the gymnastics! Cloud City and Hoth were amazing!

I literally saw it 20 times in the theater, per my parents. I then pored over every single rumor about what was going to happen later on - the filming in the desert with Blue Harvest, the shots of things in "Endor", the rumors about Boba Fett, all of it. 

[RumHam]

19 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

One ship to destroy an entire fleet is cheap.

Tell that to the empire! isn't that what Star Destroyers basically are? 

Also that's not what happened, as I recall. One ship destroyed Snoke's flagship. Did the resulting explosion take out the fleet? I honestly don't recall. 

12 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Hot take: Kubricks The Shining sucks balls.

I wouldn't go that far, it's a great looking movie. Borderline incoherent compared to the far superior book though. 

[Ran]

5 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Also that's not what happened, as I recall. One ship destroyed Snoke's flagship. Did the resulting explosion take out the fleet? I honestly don't recall. 

The very beautiful image from the film shows the Supremacy cut in half, and the debris that exploded from it and at the Raddus at near-lightspeed ended up wrecking a dozen Star Destroyers:

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

25 minutes ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

So...if a noncanon source that most people haven't read gives an in-universe explanation for it, that's totes cool, but if that doesn't exist it's bad?

So until what, 1998 that scene really pissed you off, but then you were fine?

I didn't realize there was a massive controversy about this until now. Truthfully I haven't lost sleep over this at all. Nope, I'm good.

 

29 minutes ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

Well, yeah. I'm honestly not sure if you're complaining that they should have crashed more shit into shit or that you're saying it's implausible. 

Asked and answered. If it is that easy to destroy an entire fleet with a single ship, which has happened twice in the recent SW cannon, then the established battle scenarios in all the other films are idiotic within the universe where they take place. That is not the same thing as debating the physics of which way a damaged ship will veer to maximize the on screen spectacle.

Fuck I totally forgot about lightspeed skipping. Ugh. 

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

It's also interesting to me how it has suddenly become trendy for people to say Titanic was a shit film.  Funny I don't remember people saying that at the time (when it became the highest grossing film of all time and swept the academy awards).

As a 12-13 year old rebellious male, I definitely said Titanic was shit at the time precisely because it was quite trendy to say so among my peer group.  Anyway, even as an adult, LA Confidential was robbed.

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

As a 12-13 year old rebellious male, I definitely said Titanic was shit at the time precisely because it was quite trendy to say so among my peer group.  Anyway, even as an adult, LA Confidential was robbed.

Same. and yet I borrowed my sisters VHS copy a lot....

I'm still bummed that LA Confidential tv pilot didn't get picked up. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

15 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I wouldn't go that far, it's a great looking movie. Borderline incoherent compared to the far superior book though. 

I had an interesting experience watching The Shining with my niece and some of her friends.  For the first half of the film they're on their phones and even laughing and mocking the film.  For the second half, total silence; eyes riveted to the screen; barely even breathing. I've never seen a reaction like that.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

24 minutes ago, Ran said:

The very beautiful image from the film shows the Supremacy cut in half, and the debris that exploded from it and at the Raddus at near-lightspeed ended up wrecking a dozen Star Destroyers:

 

Now imagine that was the Death Star. 

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

41 minutes ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

I remember watching Empire in the theater when I was 6. 

It was BAD FUCKING ASS. 

The first real awesome duel and use of Jedi powers! The training with Yoda and all the gymnastics! Cloud City and Hoth were amazing!

I literally saw it 20 times in the theater, per my parents. I then pored over every single rumor about what was going to happen later on - the filming in the desert with Blue Harvest, the shots of things in "Endor", the rumors about Boba Fett, all of it. 

I honestly couldn't say what my initial reaction to empire was.

Spoiler

After the Taun Taun get carved up and the ice monster almost eat Luke and seeing the hand get cut off and "No, I'm your father", I guess I was kinda numb.

 

[Kalbear]

43 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I didn't realize there was a massive controversy about this until now. Truthfully I haven't lost sleep over this at all. Nope, I'm good.

Why shouldn't there be, though? I guess that's the issue to me - why aren't you concerned about how an A-wing can cause a massive ship to just go blow up just like that?

43 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Asked and answered. If it is that easy to destroy an entire fleet with a single ship, which has happened twice in the recent SW cannon, then the established battle scenarios in all the other films are idiotic within the universe where they take place. That is not the same thing as debating the physics of which way a damaged ship will veer to maximize the on screen spectacle.

Fuck I totally forgot about lightspeed skipping. Ugh. 

It's kind of exactly the same thing, especially when they say that it's pretty much impossible to do - and until Holdo did it, no one had ever considered it at all. 

It's weird to me. The Star Wars fandom seems to want both things they've never seen before AND an entirely static, never changing universe where no one ever does anything original, we (the viewers) see it for the first time. It's remarkably reactionary. 

[Ran]

We don't really need trolling to ruin an otherwise interesting thread.

[Werthead]

 

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It's also interesting to me how it has suddenly become trendy for people to say Titanic was a shit film.  Funny I don't remember people saying that at the time (when it became the highest grossing film of all time and swept the academy awards).

There were people tearing Titanic to pieces months before it came out. When it did come out, there were a huge number of people saying it was crap, or technically impressive but the story and characters were shit. There's people who still say today that they do enjoy the movie but only from the moment it hits the iceberg and they queue it up from there on DVD or Blu-Ray.

Titanic was a hugely divisive film when it came out, and even beforehand.

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What is a valid criticism of TLJ (that I’ve not seen) is, space has no ‘atmosphere’ so there’s nothing to slow the ships. So the rebels and the 1st Order are constantly accelerating. But the distance between both appears more or less constant, which seems an unlikely occurrence; ships of completely different size have the same thruster acceleration?

You're running into a difficult position there. Some people believe that space in Star Wars works so fundamentally differently to real space that the only explanation is that the Star Wars galaxy has literally different rules of physics, so using real-world logic on it is a total waste of time.

Other people believe that space does work the same way, but the ships, stations etc all use such advanced technology that they can pretty much ignore it (i.e. the fighters are covered in tons of microthrusters which allows them to pretend they're flying in atmosphere even when they are clearly not).

It doesn't help that the canon completely contradicts itself: ships bank as if they're in an atmosphere and move accordingly in too many shots to discuss, but then the Falcon behaves in a more convincingly zero-g fashion during the Star Destroyer chase and asteroid belt fight in ESB.

Quote

It's weird to me. The Star Wars fandom seems to want both things they've never seen before AND an entirely static, never changing universe where no one ever does anything original, we (the viewers) see it for the first time. It's remarkably reactionary. 

Welcome to SFF fandom. We have cookies, but people are divided over the new flavours.

[TrueMetis]

Maybe the Holdo Maneouver will cause the people in Star Wars to remember space is big and 3d so they don't have to have their ships basically brushing up against each other? Seriously I don't know why ever ship bigger than a fighter apparently feels the need to get into knife fighting range.

As for why it's not used more often? IDK why do they have a force sensitive 8 year old fly into a ship to blow it up from the inside more often? Strategy and tactics in Star Wars have never made any sense they're not about to start now. The light speed ram isn't even the most egregious example, everything about ground battles is. Battle over Coruscant in RoTS is second though. It is however very cool looking, and that matters more.

(And this is without exploring how messed up the physics is, if we add that things just get worse)

[Slurktan]

4 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Or Vader tortured Han for no reason other than he's a villain and that's the kind of thing villains do. Stop trying to read so much into it.

This.  

4 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

It was for a reason; he knew Luke would sense it and come to rescue his friends. That was the whole reason he had a super star destroyer plus a fleet of star destroyers (some of which were damaged/destroyed by asteroids) chase a single freighter.

 

Luke is already on his way when Han is being tortured, and but lets give the thought they were doing it to bring Luke credence.  Then why wouldn't they also torture Chewie/Leia?

But to your second point... that also is the actual big plothole in TESB.  Vader knows Luke is on Hoth.  Vader goes to Hoth to get Luke.  Vader then ignores looking for Luke and just goes after the Falcon despite knowing that Luke is there and Luke is not on that ship. As the pitch meetings on Screen Rant say "Why doesn't he just look for Luke where imperials would have seen a guy with a laser sword take out an AT-AT? Because the movie needs to happen!"

[Corvinus85]

14 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

This.  

Luke is already on his way when Han is being tortured, and but lets give the thought they were doing it to bring Luke credence.  Then why wouldn't they also torture Chewie/Leia?

But to your second point... that also is the actual big plothole in TESB.  Vader knows Luke is on Hoth.  Vader goes to Hoth to get Luke.  Vader then ignores looking for Luke and just goes after the Falcon despite knowing that Luke is there and Luke is not on that ship. As the pitch meetings on Screen Rant say "Why doesn't he just look for Luke where imperials would have seen a guy with a laser sword take out an AT-AT? Because the movie needs to happen!"

Didn't the Falcon have problems with the hyperdrive? I always assumed the asteroid chase was still in the Hoth system.

While Luke grabbed an X-wing and went to lightspeed. There's no hyperspace tracking BS in this movie.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

3 hours ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

Why shouldn't there be, though? I guess that's the issue to me - why aren't you concerned about how an A-wing can cause a massive ship to just go blow up just like that?

Because it didn't.

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

 

There were people tearing Titanic to pieces months before it came out. When it did come out, there were a huge number of people saying it was crap, or technically impressive but the story and characters were shit. There's people who still say today that they do enjoy the movie but only from the moment it hits the iceberg and they queue it up from there on DVD or Blu-Ray.

Titanic was a hugely divisive film when it came out, and even beforehand.

I recall the commentary about titanic before release was how insane the production and budget was. I also remember that it didn't open especially strong but built slowly through word of mouth. That movie was in theaters for the better part of a year I think.

[Jaxom 1974]

6 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

My only memory of Empire in the theater was that it was so crowded we had to sit in the aisle. 

 

6 hours ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

I remember watching Empire in the theater when I was 6. 

It was BAD FUCKING ASS. 

The first real awesome duel and use of Jedi powers! The training with Yoda and all the gymnastics! Cloud City and Hoth were amazing!

I literally saw it 20 times in the theater, per my parents. I then pored over every single rumor about what was going to happen later on - the filming in the desert with Blue Harvest, the shots of things in "Endor", the rumors about Boba Fett, all of it. 

I was a little shy of 6 watching Empire that first time. It was amazing then. Is now.  The distinct memory of sitting on the aisle steps in the theatre with my folks and younger brother is one of my best memories of that age. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I mean, Luke sees Han and Leia being tortured in a city in the clouds and Yoda tells him not to go. It’s pretty clear cut.

"It is you and your abilities the Emperor wants. That is why your friends are made to suffer."

 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I also remember that it didn't open especially strong but built slowly through word of mouth. That movie was in theaters for the better part of a year I think.

Yeah it stayed in theaters for 10 months and was the number one movie in North America for 15 straight weeks, a record that seems impossible to ever be broken.  However, to Wert's point, as I recall a lot of people - including many critics - dismissed its popularity as largely isolated to teenage girls.  And there was plenty of criticism about the quality of the film beyond the effects/technical aspects.  Ebert ranked it ninth on his best films of 1997 list.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

20 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Yes that proves my point?

im confused again

I'm agreeing with you. When Sir Alec Guiness explains the plot, take yes for an answer.