Is Job Security Dead?

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

Hi guys, so I I've been in the workforce relatively recently (I'm 24) and my company has an 'annual layoff program' every August in which thousands of employees undergo limited restructuring. Which is corporate jargon for firing. Through no fault of their own of employees, its just become an annual trimming ritual. And everywhere around me my peers job hop ever 3-4 years for fear of stagnating and getting fired anyways,since 7-8 years in the same company today makes you look mediocre for some reason (if you turn down promotions and stay at the same level to maintain a healthy work life) 

With pensions evaporated, the pace of technology exponentially increasing, do you guys firmly believe that there can never truly be long term stability in the same company nowdays? Expecially if you don't want the pressure of higher management roles and just stick to a safer and less hectic role? With the job hopping mindset and pressure to keep adapting, I keep stressing about my own job and feel that the knife could come down if I just remain 'average' and don't join the rat race of trying for promotions and working like mad.. Kinda depresses me about the fast paced, super competitive and high pressure career lives we all seem to live in (atleast in the corporate world) 

 

What are your thoughts on this? Do you constantly feel tense, scared and pressurized in your career? I'm in Account Management (B2B  IT sales) so might be part of the reason.. Sigh.. 

[Week]

Yes. I was with a very well known, extremely profitable, private company for almost 8 years - rose up quickly with a boss that I worked extremely well together with. He was let go, some reason or another, and I spent the next 3 years with 10 different bosses. One change by choice. The first and last we're particularly unpleasant - knowing your entire leadership chain is consistently lying to you while cutting your department.

I've been bouncing around since. In a good spot now though I'm throughly jaded and cynical. 

So, yup. Unfortunately, not significantly dissimilar to your experience. I have a friend from high school who reported to Lehman for her first day on September 15, 2008. Same message delivered a bit more swiftly and suddenly.

[Altherion]

Job security is still alive in much of the government sector and it also lives on in some European countries (at least for some jobs), but for the most part, don't count it. It's not worth stressing about it though -- no point in worrying about things you can't change.

[kiko]

I think we are still in a employees market. Even during corona times most companies didn't dare to let go of their workforce and some companies (including mine) even pay a "corona bonus". They know that otherwise they would have a hard time replacing their well trained employees. 
As for this yearly cull - is that still a thing? Which country do you live in where such things are both legal and could pass with workers councils or unions?

[Heartofice]

Job security hasn’t been a thing for me almost my entire life. My dad had the same job for 35 years, and was never worried about losing it. I haven’t had a job for more than 2 years, although I have been a contractor consultant for much of that time. The reason I became a contractor was because job security simply doesn’t exist so I saw no reason to take a permanent job.

Having worked for a wide variety of companies I do think that it does vary from place to place. In terms of actually firing people, I rarely saw it happen, only at the very top, or very bottom. Mostly bigger companies have quite mature HR processes that means firing staff can be drawn out and difficult. Smaller places I’ve worked have less trouble removing people they don’t want.

But i don’t know anyone in my industry who hasn’t been made redundant at least once. That is the name of the game. Companies struggle and restructure all the time and that is how people lose their jobs. We all expect it to happen. And there is very little payout for most.

Anyone expecting any level of job security is going to be greatly disappointed 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

1 hour ago, kiko said:

I think we are still in a employees market. Even during corona times most companies didn't dare to let go of their workforce and some companies (including mine) even pay a "corona bonus". They know that otherwise they would have a hard time replacing their well trained employees. 
As for this yearly cull - is that still a thing? Which country do you live in where such things are both legal and could pass with workers councils or unions?

I'm in India, work culture is pretty bad here for the most part in the private sector. Government jobs are great - although very difficult to obtain, especially at a managerial position. It especially dosent help when more than half of them are reserved on the basis of one's caste and community. 

I echo with the Heartofice, my parents also just had one job their entire lives with great pensions, it really seems like we're the unlucky generation lol. In India, things are so bad my LinkedIn is flooded daily with people begging for job referrals, so I doubt it's gonna be an employees market anytime soon here. 

I guess the only silver lining today is the ease of knowledge and training opportunities online platforms offer so pivoting into new roles isn't as difficult as it used to be... 

About the annual culling - my company has about 75,000 full time employees, at that level shedding even thousands a year dosent raise too many eyebrows. 

[BigFatCoward]

1 hour ago, Altherion said:

Job security is still alive in much of the government sector and it also lives on in some European countries (at least for some jobs), but for the most part, don't count it. It's not worth stressing about it though -- no point in worrying about things you can't change.

Job security was one of the top 3 factors in me joining the police. No matter how badly I screw up (other than a criminal act) I have a job for life. 

[BigFatCoward]

2 minutes ago, Leap said:

...Reassuring?

There are a significant number of officers who do not perform to the standard the public have every right to expect. But its impossible to get rid of them. 

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I don’t necessarily have job security, but I do have career security.

Even during the pandemic (so, most of 2020) I’ve had recruiters call and want me to jump ship. Only one opportunity was remotely appealing, but I like where I am, I like my boss, and I have a more than decent chance of moving into his role if he leaves the company for a different adventure in, say, 5 years, so my “stay” is more compelling than “go”. 

Of course, anything can happen (the market could turn to shit and the company could disappear) but I’ve got excellent prospects. 

I think the same. In my industry I always know I'll be able to find a job if I leave, hence why I've moved around so much. My role has constantly evolved and updated and you can never stand still, but I would have no worries if I lost a job tomorrow. I'm having to retrain myself every year as the market changes. 

I see the job market where I am as a slightly more slow moving gig economy, rather than seeing a job as a security blanket. Pretty much everyone I know gets a job just so they can get a mortgage, then they leave to go do something else. It's very transactional. I hardly know anyone who's been at the same place for more than 5 years, and when I do meet them it's like talking to an alien. 

We should all expect to be fired at any minute, thats the only way to prepare.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

I've been one of the lucky ones of my generation, and I managed to bag my self a "Job for life" and a "final salary pension" since I left school at 16.

I've been with the same company for 26 years.  It also offers better than average pay.  Yes I started as an apprentice and I'm effetely trapped at my job level as to go up in the company I need a degree.  At one time I had planned to stay for a few years after I'd done my apprenticeship, build up some experience and money they leave to become a full time Uni student.

Unfortunately this thing called Uni fee's happened, then they kept on increasing the cost of those Uni courses.  And I got such good pay for what I did, even with a degree it would be unlikely to earn the same or more than I do now (or then) with a different company.  And then I got this thing called a mortgage and well having little income is not a problem when living with your parents but totally different when living alone.

I also met my Husband with the company - he was one of the lucky ones and managed to get on a degree course part time sponsored by the company, they closed that program when I would have been able to apply.  - he retired last year,  so he's also had a job for life.

Of course the future is a lot less secure, as I work in the car industry and we need free flowing trade with the EU (and rest of world) but I'm still in a much better position than most of the people I was in school with, and its not down to talent just luck.  No matter what happens it normally takes a year or two to close down the plant and I'm planning to "retire" in 4 years anyway, when hubbys pension kicks in, so worst case I'm much better off than most people in the UK simply though dumb luck.   I'm also in a better position than most people I did my apprenticeship with as my Husband was also a company man so we had 2 good wages (and 2 good pensions) it seems most couples have one person on a low wage.

 

The company is also not as good to new starts as it has been to me, new people don't get the same final salary pension scheme as I do, and are on a lower pay tier.  For instance I am grade 5, which is Trade school - Electricians, Fitters ect.   A grade 2 is "Unskilled" and would work as an operator on the assembly line.   Someone who joined after 2012 (so tier 2) and does my job (grade 5) will get 2 pence an hour less than a Grade 2 operator who started before them.  and you can't move between tier 2 and tier 1.  Its not fair and we never should have allowed this.  So yeah the newer people get less and will never get the chance to earn as much as us.  I am lucky to be born when I did, the younger ones are getting screwed over.

[dog-days]

I worked abroad in a series of very insecure jobs for not much money. The combination of my personality with the job itself and the insecurity on top of that was pretty toxic, so I got out of that after a few years while I still had some sanity left. 

I moved into the public sector in the UK, going from a part-time temporary contract to a part-time permanent contract to a full-time maternity contract to a full-time permanent contract - not working my way up within the same organisation, but job and city hopping. I've worked in HE and seen first-hand how that's becoming more and more similar to the private sector in its employment practices, and more business-focused in general. I've seen obviously incomplete master's dissertations get a passing  mark because of the need to keep the punters happy. 

Now I work in a different part of the public sector - it's known for low pay, but on the bright side it offers good pensions and benefits, has a fairly humane working culture, and offers proper contracts to all its staff including afaik to the Grade 1 and 2s (cleaners & kitchen staff). Unlike many much richer universities. 

No doubt an overhaul will one day come, along with zero hour contracts. 

[Starkess]

There are some jobs with it (academia, teachers, policeman, government jobs, etc) and some without. I think in some ways it's actually a good thing, though, as it allows job hopping. Maybe it's the millenial in me, but staying at the same company for 35 years sounds like torture. But then again, people that want that shouldn't be forced out for cheap gains to the bottom line.

What I hate is the pretense that job loyalty exists and that employees should be eternally loyal to a company that will dump them as soon as it's convenient. Let's all just accept that a job is a job, not a family, and act professionally in pursuing our goals as an employee or employer.

[Kalbear]

I'll say to you what I've said to several coworkers and mentees:

You are responsible for your job security. Your company - any company - could and will fire you if it would benefit them. No matter how much goodwill, how much good work, how many relationships - you will be let go if they think they can get more out of it than keeping you. 

So you have one of two options: be your own boss - with all that entails (and it most certainly does NOT give job security) or always look for better opportunities and always keep options open. That doesn't mean burning your bridges with your current employment, but it does mean keeping things as professional and businesslike with who employs you as they will with you.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Nvn

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Job security was one of the top 3 factors in me joining the police. No matter how badly I screw up (other than a criminal act) I have a job for life. 

 

 

[williamjm]

I've been working for the same company for 16 years now. I don't think I really expected to stay so long when I started here. I do have plenty of colleagues who have been here for longer, which I think is unusual for the tech industry, one of the people on my team has been working here for 28 years and I think is probably going to retire in the next year or two so he's essentially had a job for life.

Having said that, in the time I've been here there have been three occasions where the company has reduced its workforce by 10% each time so it's not as if there's any guarantee of job security.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

I see alot of people apparently fine with the idea of just work security not job... While I'm sure that eventually one can find another job, I don't think it's fair to constantly expect a firing and always be 'ready', that mindset can be very stressful when you have dependents to support and even more so for immigrant workers who can face deportation. It's a really sad aspect of capitalism tbh. No peace of mind. 

[Heartofice]

21 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

I see alot of people apparently fine with the idea of just work security not job... While I'm sure that eventually one can find another job, I don't think it's fair to constantly expect a firing and always be 'ready', that mindset can be very stressful when you have dependents to support and even more so for immigrant workers who can face deportation. It's a really sad aspect of capatilism tbh. No peace of mind. 

Yeah, it isn’t fun. This year I’ve had to do numerous interviews and job applications. The market was flooded with job seekers for numerous reasons and actually getting to the final stages was tough. 
 

While part of me would like to work at the same place for a long time, I think it would drive me mad. I remember being at the same job for a couple of years and was struck by the depressing thought of ‘god how many times have I gone up these stairs?’. It just felt like a prison. 

[Inkdaub]

When I think of job security I think of a situation where I will not be fired unless I do something that warrants it.  I have that now for the most part.  As long as I show up and do my work I will likely never be fired.  This is the first job I have had where that is the case. 

I read an article years ago...I want to say it was a psychology article but I can't remember where I read it.  The article described the modern...at the time...relationship between employer and employee.  It said it was in the employers best interest to maintain a culture of fear in their employees.  People who can be fired at any time for any reason are afraid and easier to control.  The idea of job security was to be avoided.  That was the gist...it was decades ago I read this thing.    

[A wilding]

3 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

I see alot of people apparently fine with the idea of just work security not job... While I'm sure that eventually one can find another job, I don't think it's fair to constantly expect a firing and always be 'ready', that mindset can be very stressful when you have dependents to support and even more so for immigrant workers who can face deportation. It's a really sad aspect of capatilism tbh. No peace of mind. 

Is is a feature of capitalism, not a bug. Stress and fear of losing their job makes people tend to work harder (though probably not more effectively, for white collar jobs at least) and accept worse treatment, conditions and pay.