Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 So I found this vey interesting detail in ACOK, when Varys talks with Tyrion about the Martells Quote [Doran] still mourns for Elia and her sweet babe Babe. Not babes. Now either Varys is playing the ultimate 16D chess with us and Tyrion, or this is a Freudian slip and evidence that Aegon is indeed who he claims he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Nice find. Sweet could imply not salty. Sweet water and saltwater. Sweet sister. Sweet bay Laurels? Babe has a lot of strange definitions. Old woman and peasant among them. Infant appears the most consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Babe. Not babes. Now either Varys is playing the ultimate 16D chess with us and Tyrion, or this is a Freudian slip and evidence that Aegon is indeed who he claims he is. I don't think it's him slipping up as him knowing that people don't really pay attention to things like this. Tyrion is like us. He could easily chalk it up as Varys misspeaking since he wouldn't know any better. In AGoT, when Varys goes to visit Ned in the black cells, he mentions only Rhaenys to him and how she died. He never mentions Aegon even though it's his death Ned thinks of the most. In ACoK, there's a really tight parallel between Aegon/Rhaenys and Gendry/Barra and Varys's role in sending Gendry away, but keeping Barra in KL. I wrote a blog post about it here because there are a bunch of things that point to Aegon being very much the real deal. There are parallels between him and Egg. And there are nods to Jaehaerys and Daeron I, plus the whole episode at Ny Sar is a nod to Nymeria and the Rhoynar. Aegon being the real deal turns Varys into a much more complex character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said: Aegon being the real deal turns Varys into a much more complex character. And it also robs the Blackfyre story of a real payoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crona Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 15 minutes ago, Canon Claude said: And it also robs the Blackfyre story of a real payoff. I don’t think there is a blackfyre plot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 46 minutes ago, Canon Claude said: And it also robs the Blackfyre story of a real payoff. If there's a Blackfyre plot at all, then I don't think you need to look further than Dany's entourage to find him. There are some themes and parallels between Daemon II Blackfyre and the dude Dany was banging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 55 minutes ago, Crona said: I don’t think there is a blackfyre plot Do you mean plot as in storyline or conspiracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 12 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: So I found this vey interesting detail in ACOK, when Varys talks with Tyrion about the Martells Babe. Not babes. Now either Varys is playing the ultimate 16D chess with us and Tyrion, or this is a Freudian slip and evidence that Aegon is indeed who he claims he is. Or it could just be Varys sticking to his story. If it were a slip it would imply Doran only mourns the loss of the one child because he knows the other is still alive. The Martells don't know that, however. They thought Gregor killed Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodraven’s Spider Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 As I said many times before (and have provided what i believe the correct timeline) Aegon is legit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 32 minutes ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said: As I said many times before (and have provided what i believe the correct timeline) Sorry, I don't think that I remember. Still I am curious, what do you believe is the correct timeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I wouldn't read too much into this. George probably hadn't worked out everything about the Blackfyre plotline at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterweedstrover Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Aegon is alive. You are correct about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 hours ago, butterweedstrover said: Aegon is alive. You are correct about that. oh no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterweedstrover Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 On second thought, could Rhaenys be described as a babe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 14 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said: I don't think it's him slipping up as him knowing that people don't really pay attention to things like this. Tyrion is like us. He could easily chalk it up as Varys misspeaking since he wouldn't know any better. In AGoT, when Varys goes to visit Ned in the black cells, he mentions only Rhaenys to him and how she died. He never mentions Aegon even though it's his death Ned thinks of the most. In ACoK, there's a really tight parallel between Aegon/Rhaenys and Gendry/Barra and Varys's role in sending Gendry away, but keeping Barra in KL. I wrote a blog post about it here because there are a bunch of things that point to Aegon being very much the real deal. There are parallels between him and Egg. And there are nods to Jaehaerys and Daeron I, plus the whole episode at Ny Sar is a nod to Nymeria and the Rhoynar. Aegon being the real deal turns Varys into a much more complex character. Aegon being the real deal turns Varys into a psycho that fed Aerys's paranoia against his wife, son, etc., hastening the destruction of House Targ, and murder of Rhaegar's family, only to.... save Rhaegar's son, raise him, and put him on the throne. Makes no goddamn sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 25 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said: Aegon being the real deal turns Varys into a psycho that fed Aerys's paranoia against his wife, son, etc., hastening the destruction of House Targ, and murder of Rhaegar's family, only to.... save Rhaegar's son, raise him, and put him on the throne. Makes no goddamn sense There is no proof that Varys ever did that ... just spurious claims by Barristan the Blind (who doesn't know Varys pushed him to rejoin the Targaryens and who has no clue that Illyrio works with the eunuch he loathes) and Jaime the Insightful (who in AFfC thinks Littlefinger would be a great Hand). The claims about the rot of Aerys' reign starting with Varys don't have to mean he is responsible - it could just be a symptom of the Mad King's madness. As his paranoia worsened he started to hire spies and the like, culminating in him hiring the slimy, cockless lickspittle from Pentos. Varys doing his job doesn't mean he put the king against his wife and son ... especially if they weren't innocent. And to be sure - whatever the Aegon plan is, it isn't something this guy planned at the drawing board. It was an spur-of-the-moment opportunity that presented itself when the Rebellion ended with Rhaegar and Aerys II dead. Either because Varys ended up with the real Aegon Targaryen in his clutches (because Elia Martell entrusted him to his care) or because the real Aegon Targaryen died in a manner which would allow a man like Varys to create a convincing impostor. We should also not discount the possibility of Varys learning something. If he came to Westeros to destroy the Targaryens then the war and the fate of the people in KL and the Mad King's paranoia could have taught him valuable lessons which led to his decision to stop trying to destroy things and instead try to build something that could last. Still on his terms, of course, with a boy (and perhaps a bloodline) he chose, but still something that's going to constructive not destructive. 15 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said: I don't think it's him slipping up as him knowing that people don't really pay attention to things like this. Tyrion is like us. He could easily chalk it up as Varys misspeaking since he wouldn't know any better. In AGoT, when Varys goes to visit Ned in the black cells, he mentions only Rhaenys to him and how she died. He never mentions Aegon even though it's his death Ned thinks of the most. In ACoK, there's a really tight parallel between Aegon/Rhaenys and Gendry/Barra and Varys's role in sending Gendry away, but keeping Barra in KL. I wrote a blog post about it here because there are a bunch of things that point to Aegon being very much the real deal. There are parallels between him and Egg. And there are nods to Jaehaerys and Daeron I, plus the whole episode at Ny Sar is a nod to Nymeria and the Rhoynar. Aegon being the real deal turns Varys into a much more complex character. Yes, yes, those things are all there, and especially the curious absence of Aegon in Varys' referencing Rhaegar's children were always subtle clues that Aegon is going to show up. Those are the things the people who want to believe this was a late idea either ignore or never caught. It still could be Varys always treating Aegon as if he is the real deal so that he never lets anything slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 21 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: So I found this vey interesting detail in ACOK, when Varys talks with Tyrion about the Martells Babe. Not babes. Now either Varys is playing the ultimate 16D chess with us and Tyrion, or this is a Freudian slip and evidence that Aegon is indeed who he claims he is. Or its just GRRM erring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 9 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said: Aegon being the real deal turns Varys into a psycho that fed Aerys's paranoia against his wife, son, etc., hastening the destruction of House Targ, and murder of Rhaegar's family, only to.... save Rhaegar's son, raise him, and put him on the throne. Makes no goddamn sense I think it makes a sense for someone who regrets his actions. I think that he threw his lot in with Rhaegar before Harrenhal happened. I think Varys is the one who lit the match for Robert's Rebellion in the same way Littlefinger lit the match for the Wot5K. I don't think Varys was planning for that. I think the situation got away from him because he wasn't counting on a heedless northman riding to the Red Keep and threatening the life of the Crown Prince. I do have a speculation on Varys. We are provided with a timeline that seems to be either disregarded or deemed unimportant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 11 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said: Aegon being the real deal turns Varys into a psycho that fed Aerys's paranoia against his wife, son, etc., hastening the destruction of House Targ, and murder of Rhaegar's family, only to.... save Rhaegar's son, raise him, and put him on the throne. Makes no goddamn sense But Varys was hired to fed his paranoia nor do i think that he hastened the destruction of House Targ, it was not him who ordered the killings of the Starks, not the one who abducted Lyanna, nor the one crowned him Queen of love and beauty in Harrehall, nor the one who lost the war, nor the one who convinced Aerys to open his gates to Tywin. And we're not told much about Rhaella nor that Varys did much against her, yet he had good reasons to distrust the son. Nothing we're told hints about him wanting the Targs dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodraven’s Spider Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 On 1/4/2021 at 4:21 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said: Sorry, I don't think that I remember. Still I am curious, what do you believe is the correct timeline? I don’t have a timeline in regards to when Varys snuck Aegon away because Aegon was born at the Tower of Joy, son of Rhaegar and Lyanna... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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