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The more I try and logically wrap it, the less sense it makes Ashara threw herself off a tower

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I don't think she was in love with Ned; if anything it was Brandon, and he died long before Ned got to Dorne. There would have been news... Maybe if Ned rejected her, but the story sounds a lot more like it was her and Brandon who may have hooked up; he did for Barbrey Dustin as it were, it's much more within his personality.

I dunno about the Lemore thing but I really think she was a key member of the Snow conspiracy... Something is going on with House Dayne. Edric Dayne? And his nickname is Ned? That's far too uncanny. It has to be a reference to Ned; even if it was just being honorable with Dawn, but I don't believe that either. Something. Is. Up.

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I always felt it was Benjen and that’s why he took the black. It’s one of those mysteries we don’t get quite enough details on to narrow it further.

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Posted (edited)

Something is definitely up with House Dayne. 

I would however say that there are plenty of reasons for Ashara to want to kill herself that don't rely on her being in love with a Stark. Her brother has just been killed. Her friend Elia Martell has just been savagely murdered along with her children, whom Ashara likely spent some time with. 

Given the lack of Daynes in the current story, its possible Ashara lost other family members during Robert's Rebellion e.g. Her father. 

She probably also lost other friends in the Sack of Kings Landing and RR. 

Finally, if you believe Barristan, she might have also been through the traumatic experience of a stillbirth and possibly a rape as well. 

Edited by Lady_Qohor

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We seriously lack infos on her, what she's been up to during the Rebellion...

As for House Dayne imo they were definitely involved in Rhaegar's plot to overthrow Aerys, know about Jon's true parentage and helped Ned cover it up. Since Edric Dayne has the same nickname as Ned, and his real name is close to Eddard, it is clearly a reference to our lord Stark and indicate they are in good terms with him, even though he's responsible for Arthur Dayne's death.

I don't know what to think about her alleged suicide, I'm open to all possibilities.

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Posted (edited)

I always thought House Dayne as a whole was one giant red herring to detract the reader away from R+L=J. It offers the reader a simple explanation for Jon's mother with the speculation of Ned and Ashara coupled with Edric Dayne being his "milk brother." That explanation even comes with the bow tie of a legendary sword on top of it.

Edited by Lord Lannister

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I agree that it doesn't make sense. If she did kill herself, why is Ned Dayne called Ned, and why did Ned get to stay there with Jon long enough for Jon to become Ned's "milk brother"? Shouldn't the Daynes be pissed off that Ned/Brandon caused their daughter to kill herself?

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15 minutes ago, dbergkvist said:

I agree that it doesn't make sense. If she did kill herself, why is Ned Dayne called Ned, and why did Ned get to stay there with Jon long enough for Jon to become Ned's "milk brother"? Shouldn't the Daynes be pissed off that Ned/Brandon caused their daughter to kill herself?

yeah this basically. at the very least they have to be somewhat complicit in hiding Jon's true parentage. I'm just wondering if there is another layer to it like how Jon switched Aemon Steelsong with The Monster. Maybe Jon isn't the real Aegon either or something overly complex like that

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39 minutes ago, dbergkvist said:

I agree that it doesn't make sense. If she did kill herself, why is Ned Dayne called Ned, and why did Ned get to stay there with Jon long enough for Jon to become Ned's "milk brother"? Shouldn't the Daynes be pissed off that Ned/Brandon caused their daughter to kill herself?

Wylla is the name of the woman who nursed Ned Dayne and Jon and Ned gives her name when asked by Robert who Jon's mother was. Catelyn describes finding Jon with his wetnurse upon her arrival to Winterfell, this presumably was Wylla. It seems either she left Starfall temporarily to nurse Jon and later went back, or perhaps she was with Ned prior to his arrival at Starfall (maybe she had been at the ToJ?) and went to work at Starfall after nursing Jon.

I'm not convinced Ashara committed suicide, but if we presume she did, it's possible that the motivation is known to the Daynes and that they know it wasn't Ned's fault. We also don't know exactly how long it was between Ned leaving Starfall and Ashara's supposed suicide.

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If Ashara knew son of Elia well there is a possibility that those who wanted to replace him with their own candidate would have a motive to get rid of her as a loose end. 

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I think Ashara is in the Neck with Howland Reed. Meera is 16, old enough to have been born around the same time as Jon and Robb.

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She probably helped in Lyana's escape. She betrayed her friend Elia, thousands died because of her actions, her own brother got killed over it, the Targaryens were gone because of it, Brandon is dead because of her. She has plenty of reasons to feel bad about. Just because she is a more moral person than Lyana doesn't mean it's some conspiracy theory. Although I would love it if she was Jon's mother, to avoid the promised one cliche 

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Pinning Brandon and Lyanna's foolish actions on Ashara seems a bit harsh, but I suppose grief isn't always logical. I've toyed with the idea that maybe Ned Dayne and Jon Snow were switched as babies, but never can really nail it down in my head.

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1 hour ago, Nathan Stark said:

I think Ashara is in the Neck with Howland Reed. Meera is 16, old enough to have been born around the same time as Jon and Robb.

That's an interesting theory. What would be the reason for faking her own death though? While some may have found it strange, there doesn't seem to be any reason to hide a marriage between Howland and Ashara, let alone go to the extremes of faking her own suicide.

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15 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Edric is four years younger than Jon.

Yeah, but seems odd they were somehow sharing milk from the same woman. Or if they were nursing at different times from the same woman an oddly specific thing to tell a child. As I said, just a random thought in my head, not anything I've qualified. 

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12 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Yeah, but seems odd they were somehow sharing milk from the same woman. Or if they were nursing at different times from the same woman an oddly specific thing to tell a child.

GRRM himself addressed the thing.

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Ashara is Howland Reeds' wife Jyanna (a name play for Jon and Lyanna). Their daughter is Meera Reed. Howland took her with him when he and Ned visited Starfall after the Tower of Joy incident. She needed to get away from Robert B's possible grasps after the rebellion. About the only place in Westeros where she could reasonably hide and not be found was in the neck with the Crannigmen. No one visited that area from the South. As she is a "Dornish" Dayne she also would have no problem with Meera being identified as Howland's heir rather than her brother Jojen.

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1 hour ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

GRRM himself addressed the thing.

Interesting read and thanks for sharing. I'll confess I'm not the type of fan to dig up every quote Martin ever said so I miss a lot of these things. 

Though I'd call that more acknowledging more than addressing. Even with the Ned connection it just seems a really bizarre thing to tell a kid. "Hey you and this other random bastard you don't know once nursed from the same teat years apart." Even if you're deliberately planting a misleading clue about Jon's parentage on the off chance he(or in this case the reader) happens to meet Edric Dayne, that's kinda just out there.

Though to be fair everything about Edric is just odd and doesn't seem quite right. The Lord of Starfall squiring in the BWB for example.

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12 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Interesting read and thanks for sharing. I'll confess I'm not the type of fan to dig up every quote Martin ever said so I miss a lot of these things. 

Though I'd call that more acknowledging more than addressing. Even with the Ned connection it just seems a really bizarre thing to tell a kid. "Hey you and this other random bastard you don't know once nursed from the same teat years apart." Even if you're deliberately planting a misleading clue about Jon's parentage on the off chance he(or in this case the reader) happens to meet Edric Dayne, that's kinda just out there.

Though to be fair everything about Edric is just odd and doesn't seem quite right. The Lord of Starfall squiring in the BWB for example.

I mean, it's not like Edric was sent to the BWB after they were formed. His lord was caught up in the war and went rogue to protect the smallfolk. What I find weirder is the lord of a Dornish house squiring for a marcher lord.

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1 hour ago, James Steller said:

I mean, it's not like Edric was sent to the BWB after they were formed. His lord was caught up in the war and went rogue to protect the smallfolk. What I find weirder is the lord of a Dornish house squiring for a marcher lord.

Kind of what I was getting at. He was with Dondarrion when all that went down. I get warding out young lords is something of a thing, but typically you want to do that in a more controlled environment with a house that's friendly to your cause. Beric was engaged to a Dayne I guess, but that's still a very odd choice to put your House's Lord out of all the possible choices.

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