Given how big TWOW will be should it be released in two volumes?

[Castellan]

"how long TWOW will be" you have faith! !

when I first got on this website there was a poster saying he did not want to join in abuse of the author, but he had started reading the series from first publication and was now 70. Extrapolating from the increasing intervals between the books he figured he'd be dead before TWOW came out. That was in 2012. Now I feel I am in the same boat, though I am not 70.

[M.Alhazred]

On 7/30/2021 at 12:48 PM, Kyll.Ing. said:

As long as the book ends up being published at all, I don't care much for how many parts it will be split into. Although I suppose the publisher would rather have people buy two books at $30 apiece than one book at $45.

Here's a serious question for you: Would you be willing to buy a revised and updated edition of World if GRRM decided to bail on Dream and we get the end in a summary?

[BalerionTheCat]

On 7/21/2023 at 4:18 AM, M.Alhazred said:

Here's a serious question for you: Would you be willing to buy a revised and updated edition of World if GRRM decided to bail on Dream and we get the end in a summary?

At this point I would welcome GRRM giving up Dream (and even Winds, if he publishes it, as it is now). So long as he also publishes a note, a few pages, explaining what was his plans. The twists and plots he had in mind. So no one could finish his story and betray it by their own fiction, interpretation...

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:18 PM, M.Alhazred said:

Here's a serious question for you: Would you be willing to buy a revised and updated edition of World if GRRM decided to bail on Dream and we get the end in a summary?

I'd rather the story be finished first. Worldbuilding issues, as big as they are, are secondary comparing to the need to get the story done.

[BalerionTheCat]

21 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

I'd rather the story be finished first. Worldbuilding issues, as big as they are, are secondary comparing to the need to get the story done.

Of course. In fact, I don't care for anything else but ASOIAF. I'm not watching HOD. And certainly will not watch any other spinoff. I can't like them while I'm waiting Winds. Maybe I'll buy new D&E if they are out before Winds. But it would be half against my resolution.

Edited August 7, 2023 by BalerionTheCat

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

2 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Of course. In fact, I don't care for anything else but ASOIAF. I'm not watching HOD. And certainly will not watch any other spinoff. I can't like them while I'm waiting Winds. Maybe I'll buy new D&E if they are out before Winds. But it would be half against my resolution.

I hope GRRM sees a therapist. Maybe they can help sort out his writing block.

Edited August 7, 2023 by SeanBeanedMeUp

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

On 5/8/2022 at 5:44 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Interesting. How did you learn all of this?

I first heard of The Kingkiller Chronicles probably around 2013 or so. As of now, it looks like Patrick Rothfuss has lost a lot of good will with his fans, much more so than George has. With the exception of a few recent blog posts, George seems to enjoy talking with fans.  I’ve heard that Rothfuss is instead quite dismissive of his.

I really hope Patrick is doing ok. I wonder what happened to him.

[BalerionTheCat]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:10 PM, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

I hope GRRM sees a therapist. Maybe they can help sort out his writing block.

I'm neither a writer nor a physician. But I don't think it's a block. The story is just too complex. GRRM doesn't want his characters to act illogically or artificially, just because he needs the story to go that way. All consequences have causes. For example, maybe (idk) he needs Dany to fight Aegon, Cersei and the Others at the same time. But he doesn't see how realistically he can keep both Aegon and Cersei in power. Or how Dany and at least Aegon could ignore the threat of the Others and result in the events he needs.

He simply raised his objectives impossibly high. IMHO.

[sifth]

On 8/10/2023 at 3:26 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

I'm neither a writer nor a physician. But I don't think it's a block. The story is just too complex. GRRM doesn't want his characters to act illogically or artificially, just because he needs the story to go that way. All consequences have causes. For example, maybe (idk) he needs Dany to fight Aegon, Cersei and the Others at the same time. But he doesn't see how realistically he can keep both Aegon and Cersei in power. Or how Dany and at least Aegon could ignore the threat of the Others and result in the events he needs.

He simply raised his objectives impossibly high. IMHO.

I think you nailed it. The series is simply just too complex.

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

On 8/10/2023 at 12:26 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

I'm neither a writer nor a physician. But I don't think it's a block. The story is just too complex. GRRM doesn't want his characters to act illogically or artificially, just because he needs the story to go that way. All consequences have causes. For example, maybe (idk) he needs Dany to fight Aegon, Cersei and the Others at the same time. But he doesn't see how realistically he can keep both Aegon and Cersei in power. Or how Dany and at least Aegon could ignore the threat of the Others and result in the events he needs.

He simply raised his objectives impossibly high. IMHO.

 

1 hour ago, sifth said:

I think you nailed it. The series is simply just too complex.

I hate to admit how much of a good point you guys brought. At the same time if GRRM lowers his standards then he'd have angry fans complaining to him. So yeah he really put himself in a bad spot.

If I were in any position to advise GRRM, I'd tell him that the number of storylines should be kept to a minimum since he's already made a bunch in the last two books and that should be enough to drive the story forward. That being said, he's going to have to balance between the shit ton of POVs out there especially in Meereen with all these characters coming together. 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

Just a thought; wouldn’t it be better if the two volumes were published under different names, like Feast and Dance? Yes, that would increase the number of books in the series, but it would be much less confusing, IMHO.

[BlackLightning]

On 10/6/2023 at 5:12 AM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Just a thought; wouldn’t it be better if the two volumes were published under different names, like Feast and Dance? Yes, that would increase the number of books in the series, but it would be much less confusing, IMHO.

I agree

As long as it is divided and organized better than Feast and Dance were. The way that he did it for Feast and Dance created more problems than it solved.

[KingAerys_II]

I think he should give materials to younger authors to finish, Berserk continues despite the author death

[kav2001c]

My only hope is that the split if it happens is done better

I know this is a trait of GRRM but seriously the splits / overlaps we have seen previously (Clash+Storm & Feast+Dance) have both been done quite poorly as there was little preplanning

 

I really cant imagine what is taking so long but the delay has me very worried for quality.... I have a nagging suspicion that after HBO show leaked some of his ideas and (since zero developement) he is trying to go back and make changes but then even more issues as he tries to retcon the new story into existing outline (more unreliable narrator povs incoming I am betting)

 

 

The scariest thing imo is how we have seen such detailed minutia (which in many ways is why fans love the books, we have no idea what is important and what is just world building) and yet we know nothing about the real conflict. Song of Ice and Fire. Others are barely mentioned (most of the world thinks its a myth) and Dragons have never set foot in Westeros (instead running wild out east).

I suspect GRRM is nowhere near finished these books (certainly not the main plot lines) as he needs to tie up so many elements of the civil was and then move so many pieces around the board (many of whom are worlds away from the main plot line)

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by kav2001c
addiing details

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

9 minutes ago, kav2001c said:

I know this is a trait of GRRM but seriously the splits / overlaps we have seen previously (Clash+Storm & Feast+Dance) have both been done quite poorly as there was little preplanning.

Just out of curiosity, how would you split Clash and Storm?

[kav2001c]

On 10/13/2023 at 11:15 AM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Just out of curiosity, how would you split Clash and Storm?

You know length of that book became a big issue (many international releases even made Storm 1 and Storm 2)

Its more an issue that if GRRM had planned ahead the split he could have peeled chapters off into other novels (esp the beginning into Clash or end into Feast)

If we do a more serious rewrite it starts to effect arcs but again he could have started split after Book 1 and made Clash - Feast and Storm - Dance into two seperate narratives and then merge later on (although I said I am worried about Winds length and potential for merge not being complete yet)

 

Otherwise just scrap split idea and just go ahead as is in a single narrative

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by kav2001c

[kissdbyfire]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:05 PM, kav2001c said:

I suspect GRRM is nowhere near finished these books (certainly not the main plot lines) as he needs to tie up so many elements of the civil was and then move so many pieces around the board (many of whom are worlds away from the main plot line)

Well, it seems he sort of agrees with you. Hope springs eternal, here’s to both of you being wrong.

During the interview, which was excerpted on Reddit, Clare mentions that she has a book — The Ragpicker King — scheduled to come out in March of 2025. “The really depressing thing is that still may beat The Winds of Winter, who the hell knows?” Martin joked.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

34 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Well, it seems he sort of agrees with you. Hope springs eternal, here’s to both of you being wrong.

During the interview, which was excerpted on Reddit, Clare mentions that she has a book — The Ragpicker King — scheduled to come out in March of 2025. “The really depressing thing is that still may beat The Winds of Winter, who the hell knows?” Martin joked.

Yeah, that's a shame. He sounded way more optimistic a year ago. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

I wish we could get inside his head a bit. Because it’s really hard to figure out what’s causing him so much trouble—is it anxiety, perfectionism, boredom? Is he procrastinating, or is he blocked? Does he secretly hate all of us? There’s just no telling.

[Quaithe from Asshai]

3 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Yeah, that's a shame. He sounded way more optimistic a year ago. 

TWOW will always be 2 years away