UK Politics - Put your mask in the bin and hug your granny

[maarsen]

45 minutes ago, mormont said:

Of more interest in that thread (and I do appreciate this is not from an unbiased source) is the finding that 99% of the accounts involved had information that would allow easy identification of the individuals behind them.

The belief that linking real names to social media accounts will deter abuse strikes me as one of those 'common sense' ideas where people haven't actually bothered to do the research to back it up. This suggests they really do need to, and I don't mean doing a YouGov poll on whether people think it would work. 

More than anything it shows that those who indulge in online abuse are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. 

[Which Tyler]

27 minutes ago, maarsen said:

More than anything it shows that those who indulge in online abuse are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. 

Or at least, think they're immune to consequences

[The Anti-Targ]

8 hours ago, mormont said:

Of more interest in that thread (and I do appreciate this is not from an unbiased source) is the finding that 99% of the accounts involved had information that would allow easy identification of the individuals behind them.

The belief that linking real names to social media accounts will deter abuse strikes me as one of those 'common sense' ideas where people haven't actually bothered to do the research to back it up. This suggests they really do need to, and I don't mean doing a YouGov poll on whether people think it would work. 

My thinking is this kind of thing needs a bit of time and some high profile examples of people actually being identified and facing consequences by enforcement and justice agencies. Deterrence doesn't really work unless you have some poster children for what happens if you get caught.

I think at this point common sense would tell us that people who commit acts of online abuse will keep doing it until they face consequences, by relevant authorities. So, anything that makes it easier for them to face consequences has to be a good thing, but only if they actually do end up facing consequences. But I do hope it doesn't end up leading to mob justice. That would be bad.

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

 

I think at this point common sense would tell us that people who commit acts of online abuse will keep doing it until they face consequences, by relevant authorities.

Why? The consequences for all sorts of crimes are known but people still keep doing them. Punishment has never been a particularly good deterrent.

And making people put their real names on stuff also runs a real risk of silencing the voices of many vulnerable people, for whom anonymity on the internet has been an invaluable tool in finding the space and strength to either speak out about stuff or just find connections and support networks not entangled with whatever bullshit they have pressing them irl.

[mormont]

6 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I think at this point common sense would tell us that people who commit acts of online abuse will keep doing it until they face consequences, by relevant authorities.

My point was that 'common sense' alone isn't a good basis for policy-making. Neither are things that are 'obvious', things that 'everyone knows', etc. You have to do the research to back them up.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Can we have the Harry Dunn crash suspect if we give them Prince Andrew?

[The Anti-Targ]

7 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Why? The consequences for all sorts of crimes are known but people still keep doing them. Punishment has never been a particularly good deterrent.

And making people put their real names on stuff also runs a real risk of silencing the voices of many vulnerable people, for whom anonymity on the internet has been an invaluable tool in finding the space and strength to either speak out about stuff or just find connections and support networks not entangled with whatever bullshit they have pressing them irl.

Though I am guessing you are not going to advocate for removal of the punishment aspect for criminal behaviour. I'm not sure it's entirely true that punishment isn't a good deterrent, it just is not a universal deterrent. I would think if there was no punishment for murder there would be a lot more of it going on than we see today. People 'round here obey the forum rules because they don't want to get the ban hammer. If there was no ban hammer this would be another 4Chan. Though many of us would not be here if it was a 4Chan.

I can imagine people in vulnerable groups being very wary of any assurances like "trust us we're from the govt". But appropriately legislated security of the information, as well as needing to get a warrant for any agency to access the identity information would still allow for anonymity in online interactions among individuals and companies and other organisations and govt agencies.

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

An interesting twitter thread on the pressures faced by the UK building industry.
I’ve seen similar talk all over in recent months. After a convo with the firm I’m looking at to completely redo my songle-storey extension flat roof and ceiling as well as install interior wall insulation panels (was built in the 70’s with fuck-all insulation!), we’ve agreed to delay until next year. Timber prices are too crazy now, and going up.

God knows if it will have improved next year. Problem exacerbated by well-off professionals who suffered nondetrikent during lockdown (or got lot of OT, like doctors), unable to go on holiday last year so opting for home improvements.

The architect who drew up the plans for the ceiling (for building warrant) pretty much confirmed that; after lockdown, he had never been so busy.

 

[Spockydog]

Meh. Project Fear.

There are no driver shortages.

There are no food shortages.

There are no medicine shortages.

No businesses have been obliterated.

Brexit is a roaring success and everything wrong with this country is the fault of Covid and the liberal metropolitan elite and nothing at all to do with the people who have been in power since 2010. And the poor.

 

[Luzifer's right hand]

22 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Meh. Project Fear.

There are no driver shortages.

There are no food shortages.

There are no medicine shortages.

No businesses have been obliterated.

Brexit is a roaring success and everything wrong with this country is the fault of Covid and/or the liberal metropolitan elite.

 

Covid-19 escaped from a German lab! 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

An interesting twitter thread on the pressures faced by the UK building industry.
I’ve seen similar talk all over in recent months. After a convo with the firm I’m looking at to completely redo my songle-storey extension flat roof and ceiling as well as install interior wall insulation panels (was built in the 70’s with fuck-all insulation!), we’ve agreed to delay until next year. Timber prices are too crazy now, and going up.

God knows if it will have improved next year. Problem exacerbated by well-off professionals who suffered nondetrikent during lockdown (or got lot of OT, like doctors), unable to go on holiday last year so opting for home improvements.

The architect who drew up the plans for the ceiling (for building warrant) pretty much confirmed that; after lockdown, he had never been so busy.

 

Not sure how much of this on Brexit tbh.

AFAIK this is what happened.

Demand for materials collapsed in 2020. The Americans being ahead of the curve with the vaccines pretty much cleaned the market for building materials (along with the Chinese), particularly true for wood, but not just restricted to wood. Production (or supply if you prefer that terminology) is atm not able to keep up with the exploding demand. So it's not just the UK that has problems with the supply there, but also Germany. With the same effect, costs are very high atm. That was foreseeable, and had been reported as early as late 2020.

[mormont]

2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

 Timber prices are too crazy now, and going up.

We just had to cancel an order for picnic tables at work because the maker can't get timber at any price. 

[Spockydog]

4 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Not sure how much of this on Brexit tbh.

AFAIK this is what happened.

Demand for materials collapsed in 2020. The Americans being ahead of the curve with the vaccines pretty much cleaned the market for building materials (along with the Chinese), particularly true for wood, but not just restricted to wood. Production (or supply if you prefer that terminology) is atm not able to keep up with the exploding demand. So it's not just the UK that has problems with the supply there, but also Germany. With the same effect, costs are very high atm. That was foreseeable, and had been reported as early as late 2020.

Getting wood is the least of our concerns.

 

 

[Heartofice]

8 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Not sure how much of this on Brexit tbh.

AFAIK this is what happened.

Demand for materials collapsed in 2020. The Americans being ahead of the curve with the vaccines pretty much cleaned the market for building materials (along with the Chinese), particularly true for wood, but not just restricted to wood. Production (or supply if you prefer that terminology) is atm not able to keep up with the exploding demand. So it's not just the UK that has problems with the supply there, but also Germany. With the same effect, costs are very high atm. That was foreseeable, and had been reported as early as late 2020.

It’s only related to Brexit in a very minor way, to the point of there being almost no relationship at all.

Actually like everyone else I am also having an extension done and am having the exact same issues. The work is taking a lot longer and costs are sky rocketing. 
 

My builders have told me the real issue is the huge jump in demand this year as well as issues around Covid and even the situation in Suez! Just a number of different factors all playing a part.

Costs globally have shot up for raw materials, so it’s hard to see how Brexit has anything to do with that. I guess if you are a rabid remainer though it will be another one of those bits of confirmation biases floating around your head.

[Spockydog]

Ah yes, Cameron and Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg have turned this country into a land of milk and honey. 

There is absolutely no downside to Brexit. None whatsoever. No. No. Nope. Nope. Nope. So I'll just sit over here with my fingers in my ears. la la la la la la

 

 

[Heartofice]

Just now, Spockydog said:

Ah yes, Cameron and Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg have turned this country into a land of milk and honey. 

There is absolutely no downside to Brexit. So I'll just sit over here with my fingers in my ears. la la la la la la

 

 

*looks around for the predicted Brexit apocalypse*
 

shrug.

[Spockydog]

34 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

*looks around for the predicted Brexit apocalypse*
 

shrug.

It's being swept under the carpet by disingenuous wankers in the media. Along with all the racism that doesn't exist in this country.

 

[The Anti-Targ]

23 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Getting wood is the least of our concerns.

 

 

There is a pill for that if you're having problems.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

There is a pill for that if you're having problems.

Alternatively there's also a Golf thread on this forum.

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

Getting wood is the least of our concerns.

That may very well be the case. And there are other areas where Brexit is causing businesses varying degrees of headache. But the shortage of building supplies and, and thus costs in that sector going through the roof atm is not really a Brexit issue, as was implied in the twitter thread Derfel linked.

[Luzifer's right hand]

6 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Alternatively there's also a Golf thread on this forum.

That may very well be the case. And there are other areas where Brexit is causing businesses varying degrees of headache. But the shortage of building supplies and, and thus costs in that sector going through the roof atm is not really a Brexit issue, as was implied in the twitter thread Derfel linked.

That is a worldwide problem. Prices for building materials started exploding a few months ago when the USA started its economic recovery.