Covid-19 #36: I am the Apples and the Oranges

[SpaceChampion]

7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Wouldn’t surprise me if this was a fake story pushed out to increase vaccination levels. Nothing will get men to get the jab quicker than if they feared for their own sexual prowess 

There is disinformation being pushed that the *vaccines* cause ED and fertility issues, going around the disinfosphere in the last month, but the original studies were reported in January.  Since then studies have shown NO impact by the mRNA vaccines on ED and sperm.

From January: https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20210129/covid19-reduces-fertility-in-men-study-suggests

Quote

The markers of inflammation and oxidative stress in sperm cells of men with COVID-19 were increased by more than 100% compared with controls, according to the researchers. Sperm concentration was reduced by 516%, mobility by 209% and sperm cell shape was altered by 400%.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

59 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

 

Didn’t realise this but would explain the difference in outcomes. Seems insane to not prioritise vaccinations by age group so strictly given the obviously different outcomes 

We did just that. However, older individuals are more likely to be Republicans and the vaccine has been a partisan issue for many, and the news sources they largely watch have been peddling Covid denial and vaccine skepticism for a long time. 

[Old Zog]

51 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Quoting from: https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20210129/covid19-reduces-fertility-in-men-study-suggests

"Sperm concentration was reduced by 516% [...]"

 

What does this even mean? Are they suggesting men who'd been through Covid had a negative sperm concentration?

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Padraig said:

Cases in Ireland have started to go up again, again.  We finally allowed pubs and restaurants to open for indoor services a few weeks ago.  Maybe that is to blame.  But only the vaccinated were supposedly allowed to use them indoors.  Who knows....

Bridges for sale!  Many many bridges I can sell you!  Bridges that will increase your sperm count and erectile function!

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

There is disinformation being pushed that the *vaccines* cause ED and fertility issues, going around the disinfosphere in the last month, but the original studies were reported in January.  Since then studies have shown NO impact by the mRNA vaccines on ED and sperm.

From January: https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20210129/covid19-reduces-fertility-in-men-study-suggests

 

Yeah that is hardly conclusive either. 

[Zorral]

A different mask protest:

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-nyc-mayoral-race-curtis-sliwa-covid-vaccine-mandate-protesters-20210805-5a6hiql5qzc3dekyb77w7ssyla-story.html

 

Quote

 

. . . . Republican mayoral hopeful Curtis Sliwa struggled to get his message across at an anti-vaccine mandate rally in Manhattan on Thursday as a group of face mask-clad protesters kept jeering him over his insistence that the city’s new inoculation policy is oppressive.

Even before he started talking at the rally outside City Hall, the hecklers got up in Sliwa’s face and taunted him and his entourage for not wearing masks.

“None of them have masks — disgusting!” one shouted at Sliwa’s crew, which included a handful of GOP candidates for City Council and other offices. . . .

 

 

[Zorral]

Finally! The uber-riche can do something good for the non uber-riche too!

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/08/climate-denial-and-covid-denial

Quote

 

. . . .What Krugman calls performative anti-rationality on the American right wing is no longer merely a tactic, to be embraced when politically convenient. The American right wing, and most especially its institutional manifestation as the Republican party, has now been taken over completely by its most irrationalist and radical reactionary elements.

These people have always been around, and are always an important factor in any right wing coalition. In America today, however, they have overwhelmed both the money men and the true believer libertarians, and genuinely taken over, to the point that the Republican party is now an authoritarian death cult, that is destroying liberal democracy, and, much more disturbingly, cutting into day to day corporate profit margins.

The radical reactionaries reject science, empiricism, evidence, and even simple logic on principle, even when doing so costs a lot of rich people a lot of cash money. This latter fact is probably the best hope we have of surviving the ongoing devolution of the Republican party into an authoritarian death cult dominated by eschatologically-minded religious lunatics: Eschatological religious lunacy eventually becomes bad for business, which is the one sin that America cannot forgive.

At the bottom of the Republican COVID craziness, which leads to the amazing spectacle of the governors of the nation’s largest red states banning public schools and even private businesses from taking anti-pandemic measures, is something that goes beyond owning the libs. It is the open embrace of anti-modern irrationalism for its own sake. This is what fascist ideology and fundamentalist religion have always had in common, which is why fascism, when it came to America, was always going to be a movement led by evangelical Protestants and reactionary Catholics.

So here they are, and here we are.

 

 

[Fragile Bird]

More on the Canadian Moderna plant. Moderna will build the plant and Canada will buy vaccines from them. The government has invested in other vaccine facilities but they weren't mRNA facilities. Right now Moderna is talking to various provinces to, among other things, find out what kind of talent pool is out there, before they make their final decision. The plant is supposed to be ready by 2024.

[Clueless Northman]

 

Having a Moderna plant is good, not only for covid, but for future other MRNA treatments.

  

6 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

To be fair to the Germans and the Czechs it's possible that enough of the population is behaving sensibly enough to help slow the spread. I don't know the situation on the ground there. 

Since I was in Prague 2 weeks ago, I can do a bit of field report, I suppose.

Entering the country requires some covid pass - PCR test or vaccine certificate basically -, hotel asked me to see it as well, but no one else after that. Restaurants are open, indoors and outdoors, museums, theatres, zoo, malls, bars, massage parlours. Life seems to be mostly back on track, from my limited touristy view of walking across the bulk of the city centre. and beyond. Few tourists, and pretty much only European-based ones.

No masking outdoor at all. People are basically supposed to wear FFP2 masks indoors, in public transportation and the like. This was overkill before delta but might help significantly right now. Of course, you more or less have 2/3 with FFP2, a good chunk of the tourists and some local people with basic medical mask, and something like 15% who don't have any or wear them under the nose or the chin. In restaurants, few people usually, some of the waiters withotu masks (or basically under chin), mostly with FFP2 though but far from absolute compliance. Unlike London or Paris, the metro didn't look like a complete madhouse, which helps to limit the spread, though buses and trams were reasonably crowded.

Behaviour might be a little bit more sensible than in other European places and way more than in some US states, but nothing earth-shattering at all. Country isn't yet surrounded by Delta hotspots, which helps. Country got massively hit last winter, so people might be a bit more cautious and get tested more often, or there are still many people with partial immunity.

Anyone actually Czechia-based would of course provide better information on the current situation and mindset of the people.

[Padraig]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Bridges for sale!  Many many bridges I can sell you!  Bridges that will increase your sperm count and erectile function!

I get that.   If enforced, the cert is pretty solid though.  But I have no idea of how well it is enforced.  It is definitely better than no check.

This UK report doesn't have the best numbers.  Although, it doesn't seem to focus on serious cases of COVID.

Quote

Using self-reported vaccination status, we estimated adjusted vaccine effectiveness against infection in round 13 of 49% (22%, 67%) among participants aged 18 to 64 years, which rose to 58% (33%, 73%) when considering only strong positives (Cycle threshold [Ct] values < 27); also, we estimated adjusted vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection of 59% (23%, 78%)

There are so many reports out there though.  This article talks about Moderna being possibly better than Pfizer and breakthrough cases being correlated with time since vaccination (hardly surprising but good to see the research is out there).

 

[The Anti-Targ]

20 minutes ago, Padraig said:

I get that.   If enforced, the cert is pretty solid though.  But I have no idea of how well it is enforced.  It is definitely better than no check.

This UK report doesn't have the best numbers.  Although, it doesn't seem to focus on serious cases of COVID.

There are so many reports out there though.  This article talks about Moderna being possibly better than Pfizer and breakthrough cases being correlated with time since vaccination (hardly surprising but good to see the research is out there).

 

I would be interested to know what the differences in the vaccines are. They are based on the same mRNA technology. I wonder if they used slightly different spike protein DNA sequences to construct the mRNA, and the moderna sequence is closer to delta's DNA sequence so the immunity is slightly more effective as a result. Immune cells recognise Delta faster, antibodies attach to spike proteins more effectively.

Or does Moderna just elicit a stronger immune response?\

I see the UK fall in case numbers has stalled, but it seems it could have levelled off which is hopeful that pretty much the best case scenario from freedom day is the result. It'll be a few weeks yet before we can get a good sense of which direction the graph is going to go.

[Fragile Bird]

Let me go wild and crazy here - the Pfizer second shot comes after 21 days, the Moderna after 28 days. Could the extra week help?

It will be interesting to see what happens in Canada where 1.3 M people had a Pfizer first shot and a Moderna second shot. And most of them from between 8 and 12 weeks after the first!

[The Anti-Targ]

Stage 1 of re-opening to the world looks like it's going to be shorter quarantine periods for New Zealanders who are fully vaccinated and who travel overseas for short periods. This seems to be likely to happen early next year. What exactly "early" means hasn't been specified, but I guess traditionally we think of early as meaning Q1.

2 minutes ago, L'oiseau français said:

Let me go wild and crazy here - the Pfizer second shot comes after 21 days, the Moderna after 28 days. Could the extra week help?

It will be interesting to see what happens in Canada where 1.3 M people had a Pfizer first shot and a Moderna second shot. And most of them from between 8 and 12 weeks after the first!

Maybe.

Reports are suggesting the longer you wait the stronger the immunity. I cancelled my second shot that was supposed to happen on Monday and pushed it out to the full 10 weeks that reports seem to indicate gives a strong immune response. We are exclusively using Pfizer here at the moment, and to push the double jab through for everything they are giving people a 3 week call back. We might be setting ourselves up for higher rates of infection than necessary once we inevitably let the virus back in.

[mcbigski]

Well, looks like Hartford is back to an indoor mask mandate starting tomorrow night.  Went to the bar after ultimate frisbee and there were are bunch of signs up.  Thankfully, the Delta and Lambda variants also pose no threat while seated, from what I can glean.  I fucking love science.

[Impmk2]

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I would be interested to know what the differences in the vaccines are. They are based on the same mRNA technology. I wonder if they used slightly different spike protein DNA sequences to construct the mRNA, and the moderna sequence is closer to delta's DNA sequence so the immunity is slightly more effective as a result. Immune cells recognise Delta faster, antibodies attach to spike proteins more effectively.

Or does Moderna just elicit a stronger immune response?\

The vaccines have been sequenced and published. The amino acids encoded for are 100% the same. Here's an alignment:

 

Quote

 

Sequence ID: Query_22325Length: 1273Number of Matches: 1

Range 1: 1 to 1273GraphicsNext MatchPrevious Match

Alignment statistics for match #1

Score	Expect	Method	Identities	Positives	Gaps
2638 bits(6837)	0.0	Compositional matrix adjust.	1273/1273(100%)	1273/1273(100%)	0/1273(0%)

 

There is different codon usage in the vaccine, which could effect translation efficiency. However I think the main difference between the 2 is the dosage. Moderna is going with a 100µg shot, Pfizer 30µg.

[Impmk2]

Going back a page or 2 to vaccine efficacy and boosters - I personally find it encouraging how much efficacy the current vaccines are giving with over 18 months and 200+ million infections later. It's testament to how good they are and how really quite well conserved (stable) the spike protein is despite the huge number of people this virus has passaged through. The nightmare scenario of an escape mutant which renders our vaccines pretty much useless propagating throughout the world doesn't seem to have come to pass (yet).

Boosters for immunocompromised and at risk populations before winter seem a pretty much done deal in much of the world (though the science really still is out about how necessary that is). Anyway personally I'm more inclined to wait until (hopefully early) next year for a Delta / escape mutant specific booster which are in trials right now. Our current vaccines are first generation, designed in January last year. I think it's probable an updated vaccine with a mix of the VoC sequences could offer even greater protection and really stomp on this virus hard. Though then, as always, the problem is the next mutation.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

8 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Anyone wondering if the unvaccinated men will face some kind of Children of Men future because covid-19 gives them erectile dysfunction and low sperm count? Studies show even very mild cases of covid can cause this.  But we don't yet know how widespread this is.  Kind of frightening.... and kind of schadenfreude.

There are more ACE2 receptors in the testicles than elsewhere.

 

Yay! I have so much love to give!

8 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Viagra doesn't helped with covid-caused ED though. apparently.

They should be running these commercials day and night. Tell unvaccinated men under 50 their junk will be irreparably damaged and they'll be tearing the doors off the vaccination clinics.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I hope you're getting more than just a baked potato for those prices, Chats. 

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Impmk2 said:

The vaccines have been sequenced and published. The amino acids encoded for are 100% the same. Here's an alignment:

 

There is different codon usage in the vaccine, which could effect translation efficiency. However I think the main difference between the 2 is the dosage. Moderna is going with a 100µg shot, Pfizer 30µg.

Didn't know there was a difference in dose. Dose-response seems like the best explanation at this point.

[Luzifer's right hand]

7 hours ago, L'oiseau français said:

Let me go wild and crazy here - the Pfizer second shot comes after 21 days, the Moderna after 28 days. Could the extra week help?

It will be interesting to see what happens in Canada where 1.3 M people had a Pfizer first shot and a Moderna second shot. And most of them from between 8 and 12 weeks after the first!

The UK did not stick to the intervals recommended by the manufacturers either afaik. 

Here in Austria we did stick to it for a few months then switched to 6 weeks and switched back again once supply exceeded demand.

There is a lot of data out there I guess I  dunno if it is collected though.