How the Five-Year Gap Would Have Changed ASOIAF

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

Feast /Dance could easily be stretched out up to two years

Can you imagine Dany daydreaming about Daario for two years? Ugh.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

17 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm going to contradict myself a bit here, but I do sometimes get the feeling that Cersei's descent into the dumpster fire was somewhat sped up in AFFC. In the first three books she didn't seem that incompetent. Evil, yes, but not crazy.  

In the first 3 books she was still checked by her family. Feast and Dance are Cercei on her own without Tyrion to manipulate her or her father to intimidate her or Jamie to whatever he did for her (which didn't seem to be working anymore anyway).  Her small council are yes men and graspers and her primary fixation is on her brother, not the kingdoms. I think the pace of collapse in that light is right on target. She's drinking more and she wouldn't recognize good advise if there was anyone around her to give it. Not a sustainable situation.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:11 PM, BlackLightning said:

I know GRRM really wanted a pre-gap interlude book with the Ironborn...

He did? That would be cool. I love nautical story stuff and mining/prospecting. Ten 10towers story would be exciting. Wind, salt air, plumbing depths and mining deep.  

On 3/24/2022 at 12:11 PM, BlackLightning said:

Would the new smallfolk POVs for that majority-Ironborn gap book?

Not sure of the question.

 

On 3/24/2022 at 12:11 PM, BlackLightning said:

People were already irritated at having new highborn characters in the mix, people dislike the travelogue and foodie passages, people were very bored by Brienne's story.

True. I loved the fourth book but I know I’m the exception. I must admit I did hunger for the usual POV

Dick Crabb gives the best tour’s of the seven 7Kingdom’s but the worst dining 

I love Dick Crabb, the Reader and Aeron. But not many are fans of WillIam and Dante.

Areo I need to revisit. Never thought oh his POV as common but more foreign. His axe as well. Had this silly 7 or x=10 idea. Kept going in circles tho.

 

Honestly 

If GRRM wrote a limerick on a shithouse wall it would be great and we’d all rush to read it. 

He has proven himself to be great.   I wish he did not feel the need at this point to be clever or appeasing. If he does at all. Any way he puts the story forth will be good. Gap or no gap. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe

[Endymion I Targaryen]

I believe that Feast/Dance could cover a span of two years since many travellogues were involved. This could explain the character developpment and the current reality. 

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

If there were a five year gap, I'd have Stannis head to Essos and say there for a while until he gathers enough support from warring in the Free Cities and then decides to head to Essos.

My only problem would be if the Free Folk head to the Wall on schedule, how would the Boltons and Iron Throne handle it.

[sifth]

On 4/11/2022 at 12:15 PM, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

He did? That would be cool. I love nautical story stuff and mining/prospecting. Ten 10towers story would be exciting. Wind, salt air, plumbing depths and mining deep.  

 

Yup, all of the IronBorn and Dorne chapters from AFFC were from the 200 and something page, in between book GRRM planned to have published before the time skip.

[BlackLightning]

On 4/11/2022 at 11:15 AM, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Not sure of the question.

I was asking if this idea of having a true ordinary smallfolk POV would appear in A Feast for Crows...or in an Ironborn-only gap book

On 4/13/2022 at 8:50 PM, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

My only problem would be if the Free Folk head to the Wall on schedule, how would the Boltons and Iron Throne handle it.

They wouldn't. The North would've been overrun.

Granted, the North being the hotbed of warring wildlings, northmen and ironmen does make a five year gap believable.

[The Bard of Banefort]

41 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

I was asking if this idea of having a true ordinary smallfolk POV would appear in A Feast for Crows...or in an Ironborn-only gap book

They wouldn't. The North would've been overrun.

Granted, the North being the hotbed of warring wildlings, northmen and ironmen does make a five year gap believable.

Yeah, that could be the reason why Stannis didn’t match on Winterfell yet, if he had to wrangle up some wildlings and Ironborn to fight for him first.

[The Young Maester]

I’ve always said that Martin could just introduce gaps in each book. Whenever it is  applicable.

Having a 5 year gap is just too complicated. Instead just extend the periods that happen within the books, and also add a yearly gap in between each book.

[The Bard of Banefort]

21 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

I’ve always said that Martin could just introduce gaps in each book. Whenever it is  applicable.

Having a 5 year gap is just too complicated. Instead just extend the periods that happen within the books, and also add a yearly gap in between each book.

He definitely could have put a year long gap between Clash and Storm, since Stannis was defeated and it would have been realistic for Tyrion to take a while convalescing, for the Tyrells to pack up their court and relocate to KL, and for Robb to keep fighting battles that we don’t really need to hear about in real-time. I’m not sure how it would affect Jaime and Brienne though.

[The Young Maester]

21 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

He definitely could have put a year long gap between Clash and Storm, since Stannis was defeated and it would have been realistic for Tyrion to take a while convalescing, for the Tyrells to pack up their court and relocate to KL, and for Robb to keep fighting battles that we don’t really need to hear about in real-time. I’m not sure how it would affect Jaime and Brienne though.

Jamie and Brienne stay longer in riverrun. Jamie in the comfort of his cell, and Brienne in the service of catelyn. Postpone the ironborn invasion since the only reason Martin had them invade the north was for plot convenience reasons. This way cat and robb arent grief stricken to do what they did until ASOS.

Another can be introduced in between ASOS AFFC. Stannis can remain at dragonstone licking his wounds. Wilding attack of the wall can also be either longer or postponed due to black brothers successfully skirmishing and maybe northmen like umber and mountain clans send men (which honestly should’ve happened). Roose trapped south of moat cailin because of ironborn, Ramsey and ryswells unable to liberate the moat. Maybe have crannogmen skirmish with Bolton and frey men at border between the twins and neck. I still find it unrealistic that roose and company were allowed to March through the neck without breaking a sweat.

Correct me if I’m wrong since most of what I wrote is from what I can remember from the top of my head.

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

On 4/15/2022 at 7:26 AM, BlackLightning said:

They wouldn't. The North would've been overrun.

Granted, the North being the hotbed of warring wildlings, northmen and ironmen does make a five year gap believable.

That or the North is torn by a multi-sided civil war that the Iron Throne could only give limited assistance as guerrilla forces in the North make total subjugation impossible.

[BlackLightning]

On 4/15/2022 at 12:14 PM, The Young Maester said:

Jamie and Brienne stay longer in riverrun. Jamie in the comfort of his cell, and Brienne in the service of catelyn. Postpone the ironborn invasion since the only reason Martin had them invade the north was for plot convenience reasons. This way cat and robb arent grief stricken to do what they did until ASOS.

You can't postpone the invasion too much because that will then have a negative impact on the storylines of Bran and Theon.

Granted, I do think it is more interesting if Bran is trying to cross the Wall at the same time as Mance's attack. But what is Bran supposed to do in Winterfell up until then?

On 4/13/2022 at 8:50 PM, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

If there were a five year gap, I'd have Stannis head to Essos and say there for a while until he gathers enough support from warring in the Free Cities and then decides to head to Essos.

The problem with this is that it would inevitably put him on a collision course with Aegon if not both Aegon and Dany

[The Young Maester]

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

You can't postpone the invasion too much because that will then have a negative impact on the storylines of Bran and Theon.

Granted, I do think it is more interesting if Bran is trying to cross the Wall at the same time as Mance's attack. But what is Bran supposed to do in Winterfell up until then?

Bran would be doing the same thing he was doing throughout acok. Just chilling at winterfell and ruling. Maybe expand into the hornwood crisis and make it a bit spicier.

Some interesting plot can be created for the north in which bran will witness. 

[sifth]

On 4/15/2022 at 12:37 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

He definitely could have put a year long gap between Clash and Storm, since Stannis was defeated and it would have been realistic for Tyrion to take a while convalescing, for the Tyrells to pack up their court and relocate to KL, and for Robb to keep fighting battles that we don’t really need to hear about in real-time. I’m not sure how it would affect Jaime and Brienne though.

Same with the first and second book I feel.

[James Arryn]

You guys are talking about the 5 year gap in terms of how it could have been built-in from the start, but isn’t the whole point that GRRM didn’t realize it was unworkable until I think after book 3?

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:47 AM, BlackLightning said:

The problem with this is that it would inevitably put him on a collision course with Aegon if not both Aegon and Dany

Doesn’t have to. If Stannis just stays strictly around Pentos and the Disputed Lands for example I don’t think he’ll be able to have trouble with Dany. As for fAegon, assuming he doesn’t start his bid for power immediately after Tywin dies, he and his partners can lay low too as to not get into a unnecessary conflict with another claimant to the throne.

Edited April 21, 2022 by SeanBeanedMeUp

[BlackLightning]

5 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

Doesn’t have to. If Stannis just stays strictly around Pentos and the Disputed Lands for example I don’t think he’ll be able to have trouble with Dany. As for fAegon, assuming he doesn’t start his bid for power immediately after Tywin dies, he and his partners can lay low too as to not get into a unnecessary conflict with another claimant to the throne.

Yeah but the best time to get rid of a rival claimant like Stannis would be while he is in Essos, especially the Disputed Lands.

I think you might be underestimating how Dany, fAegon, JonCon, Illyrio would feel to know that the Baratheons are their new next door neighbors.

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

On 4/21/2022 at 6:25 AM, BlackLightning said:

Yeah but the best time to get rid of a rival claimant like Stannis would be while he is in Essos, especially the Disputed Lands.

I think you might be underestimating how Dany, fAegon, JonCon, Illyrio would feel to know that the Baratheons are their new next door neighbors.

Dany is too far away to do anything. Only the Golden Company and their allies will try to do something about Baratheon (not openly though lest it raise too much questions). My guess is that Stannis either tries to play well with them or try to avoid them as much as he can knowing their reputation.

[LynnS]

Here's BryndenBFish analysis on the gap with salty language.

The Jeffisode: I Am Right: The Five Year Gap Was Bad - YouTube

I don't know anything about it, so I had to listen to someone who can explain it.  It is interesting that some chapters that we have read were written with an age progression in mind for some characters.  But man, is it confusing.  I will say that not knowing anything about didn't impact me in any way.  

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by LynnS