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[DMC]

1 minute ago, IlyaP said:

Does anyone know why D&D didn't simply let someone else take over the show?

Well the first things that come to mind are money, ego, pride, or some combination of the three.

[Heartofice]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

To be fair, Feast and Dance are probably unfilmable as is whereas the first three books are far easier to put on screen.

I'd say this is pretty relevant. D&D did a pretty awful job towards the end, but I tend to not blame them so heavily. The demands of the show, pumping out season after season, back to back, on a high budget were probably too much.

Removing the safety harness of Martins books after about season 4 meant that D&D were just free falling and having to add the burden of making the story up as they went along. Suddenly they were expected to be as good at writing as GRRM, and they are not.

But could anyone else have done a better job under these circumstances? I'm not sure that's obvious.

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Well the first things that come to mind are money, ego, pride, or some combination of the three.

That's one heck of a cocktail.

[Veltigar]

I saw Top Gun 2 in IMAX yesterday. The theatre was jampacked and the audience was superdiverse. A lot of demographics that I do not think often show up for the movies anymore from fans of a certain age who must have seen the original when it came out to groups of giggling teenage girls and everything in between.

I can tell you unequivocally that they got their money's worth. It has been years since I last saw a film in IMAX that I thought was really worth the money, but this film is just incredible. Not only was it shot on IMAX Digital camera's that were custom build for this film, making it an amazing technical achievement and providing a visual action experience that tops the first movies' jet action, it is also just a magnificent film from start to finish. 

Top Gun 2 has everything you want from a blockbuster. The action is jaw-droppingly good and I was pretty much at the edge of my seat throughout the film. It is amazingly tense, and it manages to do this without losing any of its dexterity. It is easy to digest without veering into the superficial. Major props for that go to the comedic interludes. They all land and the humor is a perfect complement to the heart-thumping flying on display. In that way it is even better than the original, were a lot of the humor came from the immense camp factor and was somewhat unintentional.

The character's emotional arcs also all work. Tom Cruise's thousand watt smile has not lost any of its appeal, but also the younger characters manage to draw you in. Even if you don't have a single jingoistic bone in your body, I bet you will be rooting for the characters during the final fights. I expect great things from all of these young actors, in particular of Glenn Powell who plays Hangman. That guy is a good actor, but he also has that hard-to-define movie star appeal, so I'm very curious to see what he does with the rest of his career. 

I also loved how this film dealt with the fact that it is a legacy sequel. I don't think anyone was really waiting for a Top Gun sequel after 36 years, but like Mad Max Fury Road before it (which is a film I would compare it too quality-wise), it managed to pay homage to its roots without forgetting that it needed to be good in its own right (Disney please take note for any future project in the MCU and SW). There were often times where the old Twain quote "History does not repeat itself, but it often rhymes" came to mind. When the film decided to go back to its roots, it did so for a reason that made sense within its own story rather than for the sake of cheap fan service. On that front, it sets the bar high for sequels and I hope that Hollywood will take note.

On the negative side of the ledger, it is hard to come up with any real issues. The new music will not become as iconic as that of the original, but the film has wisely chosen not to put as much focus on the musical numbers as in the first Top Gun. There is also a love story that feels somewhat perfunctory but it is also not foregrounded really. The relationships that matter are those between Maverick and the new generation of fighters and that is what the film focuses on. The film also remains true to its roots as propaganda for the US Navy. I'm pretty sure that this will inspire a great many people to become (fighter) pilots so on that front that initial relationship keeps paying dividends for everyone involved with the movie.

Now I know that I am an admirer of the original, so that makes me a biased source of information. Top Gun 2 however seems to be that rare film that manages to captivate critics and general audiences alike given the reactions I saw in the theatre and the rave reviews that are popping up everywhere. It is the kind of film that strengthens my faith in the continued existence of multiplexes, because you cannot properly replicate this experience on a smaller screen. if I was not about to leave on a long journey, I would probably go and see it again in IMAX next week. So therefore, I will close this review by saying that you should do yourself a favor and treat yourself to an IMAX screening of this film. Not only will you enjoy it tremendously, we must also give the studios a message that people will show up for big films like this even when there is no link with the MCU/DC/SW/F&F. 

 

[Isis]

I see a lot of people raving about This is Us so I decided to give it a try on a train journey this morning... I got about 15 minutes into it before I had to exit. What an absolute pile of vapid dross. It's cringe-inducingly awful. I cannot believe that pilot was successful.

[Ran]

@Veltigar

I've no intention of going to the theatre to the new Top Gun film, but out of curiosity:

Spoiler

Is anything said about what became of Maverick's relationship with Charlie, and does "Take My Breath Away" appear anywhere?

 

[Veltigar]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

@Veltigar

I've no intention of going to the theatre to the new Top Gun film, but out of curiosity:

  Hide contents

Is anything said about what became of Maverick's relationship with Charlie, and does "Take My Breath Away" appear anywhere?

 

Negative on both questions. 

And of course the mandatory "you are missing out"  

[IFR]

9 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I'd say this is pretty relevant. D&D did a pretty awful job towards the end, but I tend to not blame them so heavily. The demands of the show, pumping out season after season, back to back, on a high budget were probably too much.

Removing the safety harness of Martins books after about season 4 meant that D&D were just free falling and having to add the burden of making the story up as they went along. Suddenly they were expected to be as good at writing as GRRM, and they are not.

But could anyone else have done a better job under these circumstances? I'm not sure that's obvious.

I kind of mirror the surprise at how hostile the reception is of GoT on this board and how much antagonism is directed at Benioff and Weiss.

Nothing in terms of fantasy on TV has come close to what GoT accomplished, in ambition and execution. The show collapsed noisily at the end, but until that point it was a remarkable achievement.

Now we have shows like The Wheel of Time and The Witcher, whose best seasons are pretty much on par with season eight of GoT with respect to logic, character development, and plotting, but are substantially inferior with respect to production values.

And let's face it: as talented as Martin is, he wrote himself into a corner and can't finish his own story. Why should D&D be expected to write a satisfying ending to this highly complicated narrative when even the original author is clearly unable to manage it himself?

No, I see a lot of armchair producers who comment, but just based on what we've seen before and after GoT it was an amazing achievement.

I mean, can anyone name a better fantasy show? And I dare people to list something like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Angel, so I can engage in the cathartic experience of tearing those shows apart.

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, IFR said:

I kind of mirror the surprisie at how hostile the reception is of GoT on this board and how much antagonism is directed at Benioff and Weiss.

I don't think it's surprising. The die-hard fans of something are always going to be the most critical of any adaptation.

Some of us like the show overall but are still critical of the stupid bits. Season one has like two stupid scenes (Littlefinger explaining himself while training prostitutes, and that Lannister guard randomly deciding to stab Ned in the middle of what is clearly a one on one fight.) Still an incredible season of TV. Then more and more stupid creeps in as time goes on. I love early in season two when all those Lannister men stand there and watch the wounded Yoren kill the crossbow guy as he reloads.

Then it totally goes off the rails when they start saying "we can't adapt that plotline, lets do something else." See: Dorne.

[Heartofice]

I don't think it's just hardcore fans who are critical of the end of the show, I would think its almost a universal opinion now, I'm very surprised if I ever find anyone who thinks the show ended well or wasn't a total balls-up.

Its a good point that there really aren't very many fantasy adaptations that work, and the reason I think that GoT worked for so long was because it was barely fantasy.

[RumHam]

9 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I don't think it's just hardcore fans who are critical of the end of the show, I would think its almost a universal opinion now, I'm very surprised if I ever find anyone who thinks the show ended well or wasn't a total balls-up.

Its a good point that there really aren't very many fantasy adaptations that work, and the reason I think that GoT worked for so long was because it was barely fantasy.

You're right about the ending, but the show overall?

[Darryk]

10 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I'd say this is pretty relevant. D&D did a pretty awful job towards the end, but I tend to not blame them so heavily. The demands of the show, pumping out season after season, back to back, on a high budget were probably too much.

They could and should have hired a team of top writers to help them. It's surely unheard of for a show of that size to have just two writers (and a couple of trainees).

After watching season 3 of Succession and marveling at how brilliantly written the show is I looked up to see who wrote it and it's a team of top class writers. Imagine how much GoT could have been improved by that.

31 minutes ago, IFR said:

I kind of mirror the surprise at how hostile the reception is of GoT on this board and how much antagonism is directed at Benioff and Weiss.

The antagonism toward D+D goes overboard a lot of the time. I'm sure they're nice guys and they did a great job with the early seasons.

The hostility toward the end of the show is understandable considering how non-sensical it was. It was clearly being written by people who didn't give a crap, so they deserve the criticism (but not the personal attacks).

[Dragon in the North]

11 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I don't think it's just hardcore fans who are critical of the end of the show, I would think its almost a universal opinion now, I'm very surprised if I ever find anyone who thinks the show ended well or wasn't a total balls-up.

Its a good point that there really aren't very many fantasy adaptations that work, and the reason I think that GoT worked for so long was because it was barely fantasy.

I will never understand why people continue to make this absurd claim. Between Blu Ray sales, Emmy nominations and wins, viewership numbers, and GOT continuing to be high in demand and popularity today, I think it’s safe to say reception for the ending is overwhelmingly positive.

 

And FYI, I personally loved every season of GOT, including season 8. Many of us did.

[Darryk]

Just now, Dragon in the North said:

I think it’s safe to say reception for the ending is overwhelmingly positive.

I don't think this is safe to say at all. The show has disappeared from pop culture in a puff of smoke, no one mentions it except to say how badly it ended. I've not met anyone who like the ending, casual or hardcore.

[Dragon in the North]

5 minutes ago, Darryk said:

I don't think this is safe to say at all. The show has disappeared from pop culture in a puff of smoke, no one mentions it except to say how badly it ended. I've not met anyone who like the ending, casual or hardcore.

It’s one of the most watched shows on HBO Max. And you’re taking about internet reception, which means very little. It’s called the vocal minority for a reason. The vast majority of the show’s audience are casual viewers who don’t spend time on the internet.

 

Anyway, I think we’ll know more about the public reception when House of the Dragon airs. If it premieres with strong viewership numbers, that will be even further evidence that the ending was well received.

[RumHam]

8 minutes ago, Darryk said:

The show has disappeared from pop culture in a puff of smoke, no one mentions it except to say how badly it ended.

I've seen people say this about Avatar also, I don't really get it. How often do you expect people to talk about shows no longer airing or movies that came out years ago?

[Darryk]

2 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

It’s one of the most watched shows on HBO Max. And you’re taking about internet reception, which means very little. It’s called the vocal minority for a reason. The vast majority of the show’s audience are casual viewers who don’t spend time on the internet.

The final episode is rated 2.7 out of 10 on IMDB.

It will still be watched on HBO Max because the earlier season are good plus there's a lot of people who still haven't seen it.

I'm not just talking about internet reception but media reception in general. People in the industry and media have been outspoken about how much they disliked the ending. 

I don't see how you judge a show's reception other than by how it's received on mass media including the internet. There's no point speculating what the silent majority thinks, they could have hated it or liked it and we have no way of knowing.

[Darryk]

Just now, RumHam said:

I've seen people say this about Avatar also, I don't really get it. How often do you expect people to talk about shows no longer airing or movies that came out years ago?

It disappeared as soon as it ended. The only people talking about it afterward were hardcore fans bashing the ending. Now when you mention it to people they just cringe, unlike The Sopranos where people still talk about what a great show it was.

[Dragon in the North]

4 minutes ago, Darryk said:

The final episode is rated 2.7 out of 10 on IMDB.

It will still be watched on HBO Max because the earlier season are good plus there's a lot of people who still haven't seen it.

I'm not just talking about internet reception but media reception in general. People in the industry and media have been outspoken about how much they disliked the ending. 

I don't see how you judge a show's reception other than by how it's received on mass media including the internet. There's no point speculating what the silent majority thinks, they could have hated it or liked it and we have no way of knowing.

IMDB is included in internet reception. Besides, it’s possible to make multiple accounts and review bomb. It’s happened before.

 

 The best way to gauge public reception is with viewership numbers. After all, if people like something, they will keep watching. If they hate it, they will stop watching. The GOT finale was the most watched episode in HBO history.

[Dragon in the North]

9 minutes ago, Darryk said:

It disappeared as soon as it ended. The only people talking about it afterward were hardcore fans bashing the ending. Now when you mention it to people they just cringe, unlike The Sopranos where people still talk about what a great show it was.

People continue to talk about GOT to this day, particularly on Winter is Coming and Watchers on the Wall, though articles by the latter have been rather scarce. I don’t hear many people talking about The Sopranos or Breaking Bad, but maybe we hang out on different sites.