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HBO Developing Jon Snow Spin-off


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On 8/23/2022 at 4:43 PM, Maia said:

I wrote this for another thread, but it fits here even better:

Jon will get his high-fantasy/horror? arc against the Others that was excised from GoT, and the outcome of that last is going to be treated as merely a respite, a False Spring. What else of interest is there still for him to do? Overthrow Sansa?:rolleyes:.

In hindsight, it seems that GRRM's subversion intent has always been limited to a Fisher King archetype becoming the "high king" rather than an  Arthurian archetype, who would be the the prophesised savior, but remain largely unknown and unaknowledged. The idea that a woman might play either of these roles was clearly a step too far for him and only used as a diversion. 

In fact, the initial outline* spells rather clearly IMHO that Tyrion, Jon and Bran - i.e. "dwarfs, bastards and broken things"  were supposed to be the overall main characters, with everybody else being merely a source of conflict or motivation for these 3. So, "Snow" could just go back to the roots, as it were, and somewhat redeem all the various set-ups of the Others, the Long Night, the prophecies, etc. Since the main political part is done, and Dinklage is unlikely to want to come back, they could even dispense with Tyrion at this point. There could be some limited politicking between various northern and wildling factions instead, if called for.

*Which clearly demonstrates, along with WoIAF an FaB that GRRM's "gardening", despite all the annoyance and delays that it caused, tends to greatly improve on his original ideas.

P.S. Re-doing season 8 is clearly a pipe dream, but salvaging the Long Night/ menace of the Others/prophecies  is doable and even indicated, if they want Westeros to be a franchise. Build in a time skip, so that physical changes of the  actors don't feel jarring.

P.S.S. I hope that they wouldn't try to put back in side-plots that clearly have been already overtaken by the show narrative and aren't relevant  any more - i.e. UnCat, Arianne, etc. Unless they can be somehow re-tooled to tie into new and different arcs.

It could be that Sansa dies without an heir and he has to return to rule Winterfell.

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20 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

For me, there's one way for SNOW to become as big a hit as Game of Thrones was and House of the Dragon is shaping up to be: Martin, Martin, Martin.

There's a massive amount of cut A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE material that could and should be harvested for this show. It would be anachronistic and require a lot of retcons to fit into a new timeline and Post-Game of Thrones world but it'll still be superior to anything that random TV writers would be able to come up with.

Just off the top of my head:

* Mace Rayder survived with magic
* Lady Stoneheart ("There's more Freys to kill!")
* Val
* Alys Karkstark (Sansa is doing a shit job reigning in her lords)
* Craster's children
* Young Griff (Yes, straight up have Westeros invaded by a Targaryen pretender and force Jon Snow to man up that he is the REAL Aegon Targaryen)
* Victarion Greyjoy ("I was at sea!")
* Arianne Martell (another branch of the Martells have assumed power)

As a jumbled up incoherent mess of harvested plotlines, it would STILL be better than 99% of all television out there.

I think Alys is dead; she was with Theon in the godswood and Theon was the only one left standing.

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4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I think Alys is dead; she was with Theon in the godswood and Theon was the only one left standing.

"The other Alys!"

"There's two Alys?"

"Yes."

Sort of like how there's a Prince of Dorne at the end of Game of Thrones we don't know but somehow exists.

(I choose to believe that's Quentyn Martell who hilariously missed Daenerys in Essos and thus survived)

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Kit seems like a pretty serious guy who was very emotionally invested in the role. I think this is about providing closure for both him and the character. Based on the clip of the cast doing the read-through for S8, he was horrified to learn that Jon kills Dany (even when she’s a mass murderer, it’s hard for a modern person to view someone who kills his girlfriend as a good guy). It wouldn’t surprise me if he wants to “redeem” Jon somehow.

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11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Kit seems like a pretty serious guy who was very emotionally invested in the role. I think this is about providing closure for both him and the character.

But still, it's like if Elijah Wood decided to create a Frodo show taking place after LOTR, even though there is no source material to base it on. It would just feel... wrong. :unsure:

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17 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I wonder if Kit will publicly turn and say season eight was a disservice to him or something 

No, it would be unprofessional.

I do think that Jon's character was comprehensively trashed in the last couple of seasons, however.  He went from hero to weakling.  In his shoes, I'd have been pretty upset at what D & D did with Jon.

Edited by SeanF
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Again, this sounds very similar to the Dexter reboot - a mea culpa on a horrible ending without actually saying the mea culpa part out loud...albeit the Dexter people kinda did say it out loud.

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On 8/28/2022 at 10:52 AM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I guess they could call it Jon Snow: Return of the King... in the North.

Yes, and then we could have "Somehow, the Night King returned." 

Actually, having Bran be the Night King, or have some portion of him, and that he was the one screwing everyone up would be cool. 

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1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Yes, and then we could have "Somehow, the Night King returned." 

Actually, having Bran be the Night King, or have some portion of him, and that he was the one screwing everyone up would be cool. 

 

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Yes, and then we could have "Somehow, the Night King returned." 

Actually, having Bran be the Night King, or have some portion of him, and that he was the one screwing everyone up would be cool. 

They reach out for aid to the surviving Dothraki, and Unsullied, and get the response “Well, it sucks to be you.”

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11 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But still, it's like if Elijah Wood decided to create a Frodo show taking place after LOTR, even though there is no source material to base it on. It would just feel... wrong. :unsure:

That would depend - IMHO GoT used very little of the plot that GRRM envisioned for Jon after his assassination attempt. What we got instead was mostly a mix of Stannis's and (F)Aegon's arcs. And since the Long Night was flubbed as well and Jon was in all likelyhood integral to it, well, it would be reasonable to go in "they were wrong that the threat was decisively dealt with" direction. Certainly, focus on the prophecies in HoTD would make zero sense otherwise.

Honestly, if GRRM is prepared to share, it would be less of a fan-fic than the last 2 seasons of GoT.

Edited by Maia
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I haven't rewatched GoT since it aired, so maybe my memory's at fault. But IIRC the show never says that The Night's King is The Great Other, right? So, while it would probably be tough to naturally introduce, they could potentially have Snow be all about another, much larger invasion by the Others/White Walkers.

It wouldn't solve the problems of S8; but there's no way to do that without just redoing the season, which would never happen. But it would let The Long Night finally be shown as the true threat it is; which, based on how HotD so directly mentioned it as well, seems much more integral to the long-term underlying lore necessary for an extended franchise than how quickly Dany goes mad (which I assume is GRRM's plan for her and not a D&D invention; since it'd would've been a fine plot point with better pacing and set-up). 

Edited by Fez
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7 minutes ago, Fez said:

 But it would let The Long Night finally be shown as the true threat it is; which, based on how HotD so directly mentioned it as well, seems much more integral to the long-term underlying lore necessary for an extended franchise

Yes, indeed. If this Chekov's gun doesn't fire, all the build-up, which even continues in HoTD would feel pretty ridiculous, like the last seasons of GoT did.

 

7 minutes ago, Fez said:

than how quickly Dany goes mad (which I assume is GRRM's plan for her and not a D&D invention; since it'd would've been a fine plot point with better pacing and set-up). 

 

It would be  pretty bad writing after Cersei was already depicted as quite mad in her PoVs in AFFC and ADwD, though. GoT, of course, completely cut this aspect of her character.

GRRM really needs to take a hard look at how he writes women who wield or aspire to wield hard power - so far it seems that he intends to vindicate all the bigots from WoIaF and FaB. Certainly, 12-13th century in England and France produced more capable noblewomen actively involved in politics and even war than the fake history of Westeros.

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