Jump to content

UK Politics - Democracy for the 0.27% - Worst Past The Post edition


Which Tyler
 Share

Recommended Posts

And some of you said just a few years ago that Tories weren't as bad as Republicans. Seems they're identical now. You're even getting an injection of the nonsensical religious nuttery. Anyways...

Quote

The reason it took so long to get rid of him was because it was so obvious to most Tories that there was nobody to replace him and all the potential candidates were varying degrees of awful. Sure they are now trying to pretend that isn’t the case but that is also predictable. 

In a rational world this should mean the Tories cease being a political party. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And some of you said just a few years ago that Tories weren't as bad as Republicans. Seems they're identical now. You're even getting an injection of the nonsensical religious nuttery. Anyways...

In a rational world this should mean the Tories cease being a political party. 

We've even had our first call for less gun regulations in the wake of our latest shooting scandal

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And some of you said just a few years ago that Tories weren't as bad as Republicans. Seems they're identical now. You're even getting an injection of the nonsensical religious nuttery.

It has been a more sudden thing. The Tories have had a crazy wing for a long time, but since the Brexit referendum they have completely taken the party over in a comparatively short time. From my Remainer perspective this was a predictable consequence of the impossibility of making good on the promises made by the Brexiteers. Look at the way that Cameron and many of his peers made a rapid exit for example.

Edited by A wilding
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

We've even had our first call for less gun regulations in the wake of our latest shooting scandal

Freedumb!!!

52 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

If they get absolutely battered in the next election then something like that might happen. Certainly it should be a wakeup call.

No it won't. It sounds like they're prepping for defeat and leaving whoever has to take over with an even greater mess just so they can retake power a few years later without any notion of reforming themselves. Face it, Conservatives in both our countries are just like the water swirling down the shitter. 

53 minutes ago, A wilding said:

It has been a more sudden thing. The Tories have had a crazy wing for a long time, but since the Brexit referendum they have completely taken the party over in a comparatively short time. From my Remainer perspective this was a predictable consequence of the impossibility of making good on the promises made by the Brexiteers. Look at the way that Cameron and many of his peers made a rapid exit for example.

The strangest part, in both our countries, is the new willingness to accept the most obvious and dumb lies. The death of expertise is what's going to undo us all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair, the problem with replacing Johnson was not that it was obvious that there wasn't anyone to replace him: at the very least, as evidenced by what happened after he did go, many members of the Parliamentary party believed it was obvious that there were candidates amply qualified replace Johnson as PM, and a fair number believed it was them. Even now, the grass roots membership do not agree that the candidates are awful: they rather like Truss.

Sure, they're wrong. But they're the people who could have replaced Johnson earlier. The people to whom it's obvious that there are no qualified replacements, are the people who had no ability to kick him out. So they're not the reason he didn't go earlier. 

Anyway, going back to Ty's original point, the answer is that the Tory party membership believe they are getting someone almost as good. HoI's response is flawed because the fact is, Tory party members mostly aren't pretending that they think Truss is what the country needs. They genuinely think that. And that's why we're all in trouble. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, mormont said:

 

Anyway, going back to Ty's original point, the answer is that the Tory party membership believe they are getting someone almost as good. HoI's response is flawed because the fact is, Tory party members mostly aren't pretending that they think Truss is what the country needs. They genuinely think that. And that's why we're all in trouble. 

You are just wrong here, there was plenty of talk before Boris left of there being a lack of good candidates to replace him. Why do you think he won the vote of confidence? It would have been quite easy to get him out earlier if there was anyone obvious to take his place, but the Tories were well aware how shitty everyone was. Him being voted out was dragged out for a very long time for that very reason.

Tories are well aware of the weakness of their candidates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

Tory MPs are aware of the weakness of the candidates. The membership, maybe not so much

Again not really true.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/03/more-our-conservative-members-poll

When polled tory members think Boris would have been better than either candidate and are not exactly optimistic about their chances at the next election with either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

And some of you said just a few years ago that Tories weren't as bad as Republicans. Seems they're identical now. You're even getting an injection of the nonsensical religious nuttery. Anyways...

In a rational world this should mean the Tories cease being a political party. 

This is helpful, though of course the GOP have continued to careen to the right since the Manifesto project:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/26/opinion/sunday/republican-platform-far-right.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Again not really true.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/08/03/more-our-conservative-members-poll

When polled tory members think Boris would have been better than either candidate and are not exactly optimistic about their chances at the next election with either.

Sunak supporters think he's better than Johnson by a long way: Truss supporters narrowly prefer Johnson. Overall, Johnson has a plurality but not a majority of support among members. No data is offered on whether members would have been optimistic of a win under Johnson. 41% of members wanted Johnson to resign and 40% think Sunak was right to resign (which suggests that a significant number who won't vote for Sunak still support that decison).

The suggestion of this data is surely that while the majority of party members didn't want him to resign, most do believe that there were and are qualified candidates to replace him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, mormont said:

Sunak supporters think he's better than Johnson by a long way: Truss supporters narrowly prefer Johnson. Overall, Johnson has a plurality but not a majority of support among members. No data is offered on whether members would have been optimistic of a win under Johnson. 41% of members wanted Johnson to resign and 40% think Sunak was right to resign (which suggests that a significant number who won't vote for Sunak still support that decison).

The suggestion of this data is surely that while the majority of party members didn't want him to resign, most do believe that there were and are qualified candidates to replace him.

Like who?

Pretty much the entire field of contestants in their UK's Next Prime Minister casting show (aka Britain's got Talent - just not here) were to varying degree incompetent or crazy, or both. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Like who?

Pretty much the entire field of contestants in their UK's Next Prime Minister casting show (aka Britain's got Talent - just not here) were to varying degree incompetent or crazy, or both. 

Again, I'm not claiming that there are in fact qualified candidates. I'm pointing out that Tory party members believe the candidates to be qualified.

Johnson did not last in office because people in his own party recognised that there was no qualified alternative. If you know any politicians, that's not a credible claim. First, because the majority of MPs believe themselves to be qualified to be PM. Second, because the rest don't really care if they're qualified, they still want the job.

He lasted because none of the challengers felt ready to topple him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mormont said:

Again, I'm not claiming that there are in fact qualified candidates. I'm pointing out that Tory party members believe the candidates to be qualified.

Johnson did not last in office because people in his own party recognised that there was no qualified alternative. If you know any politicians, that's not a credible claim. First, because the majority of MPs believe themselves to be qualified to be PM. Second, because the rest don't really care if they're qualified, they still want the job.

He lasted because none of the challengers felt ready to topple him.

The thing about having a massive ego and ambition well beyond competence is that everyone else but me would be a worse PM than me. Therefore no one else in parliament would be a better PM than Johnson but me. Which means unless I am Sunak or Truss (or maybe Mordant) I think there is no one realistically electable as PM who would be better than Johnson, and for the moment the caucus and party as a whole have not yet recognised my greatness to bow to my superior nature and elect me PM for life. I am so jealous of Xi Jinping right now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait til the blackouts start. People being charged £6600 for an absolutely essential service that doesn't work is when we'll see some proper trouble.

Edited by Spockydog
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...