The Lord of the Crossing Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 On 5/7/2023 at 1:45 AM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said: I think you will like my new writing style. I will be talking about these characters for this topic. Subject: Jaime Lannister Other Characters: Cersei Lannister, King Aerys Targaryen II, Melara, Margery Tyrell, Daenerys Targaryen, Bran Stark, Arianne Martell, Aegon ??, Gerold Dayne, and Myrcella Baratheon. Most Hated Person in Westeros Jaime Lannister is the most hated person in all of Westeros because: he murdered King Aerys Targaryen II, the king he has taken vows to defend and to protect with his life. pushed Bran Stark from the tower while guesting in Winterfell. sleeps with his new king's wife and fathers the bastards who inherits the throne. participated in the breaking of his brother's marriage. Jaime's Enemies Tyrion Lannister Bran Stark Daenerys Targaryen Aegon ?? Arya Stark Who will kill Jaime? Bran Stark is the most likely killer from the list. But there is one other who has as good a chance. The younger, more beautiful queen. And she is not on the list. This person will take everything away from Cersei. This is the clue which eliminates Daenerys Targaryen as the one who will murder everyone Cersei loves. The Tyrells already murdered Joffrey whom Cersei loved. This suspect is a Tyrell, a female, and a queen. Margery Tyrell. Myrcella, Jaime, and Tommen will be killed by the Tyrells. Margery is already a queen. Sansa can't be queen as long as Margery is alive and she is not smart enough. Arianne is younger but not more beautiful. The word valonqar comes from Valyrian. Why use this term unless the killer is Valyrian. Daenerys Targaryen is the only proven Valyrian on the suspect list but the person is someone's younger brother. My suspect is Aegon ??. He is unproven but he might have enough blood to pass for Valyrian even if it's diluted. Aegon will choke Cersei and Melara will get her justice. Gerold Dayne has no quarrel with Cersei but he is a possible Targaryen bastard. Bran Stark's Revenge The Lame One will get his revenge on Jaime but through indirect means. He might do something to put Jaime and Cersei in a defenseless situation. Bran can do the dirty deed in so many ways. Daenerys Targaryen The next book is called The Winds of Winter. All hell will break loose before Queen Daenerys Targaryen comes to Westeros. Most of the family fighting between the nobility will have been resolved before she comes. Martin is not waiting until A Dream of Spring to thin his cast of characters. Daenerys will arrive in the last book. We can interpret "taken" differently. It doesn't have to mean killed. The younger, more beautiful queen could simply take Jaime from Cersei. As in sexually. Maybe even turn him to her side. The identity of the younger, more beautiful queen is reduced to Margaery and Sansa. The prophecy from the witch says this woman will take everything from Cersei. Joffrey was taken by the Tyrells. We know but the people don't know. They all believe it was Sansa who murdered Joffrey. Beautiful is subjective and the witch might think Sansa looks better. Daenerys and Aegon have reasons to hate Jaime but they also would know him to have high political value. Daenerys will not kill Jaime unless he loses his political value. Aegon might lose his temper and have Jaime killed. Bran would kill Jaime in a heartbeat. It will be the Starks who will kill the Lannister twins and their children. Aldarion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Among the fandom, I think that Jaime is generally held in higher regard than he deserves. Springwatch, Aldarion, Quoth the raven, and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 30 minutes ago, SeanF said: Among the fandom, I think that Jaime is generally held in higher regard than he deserves. Facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 On 5/7/2023 at 1:45 AM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said: I think you will like my new writing style. I will be talking about these characters for this topic. Subject: Jaime Lannister Other Characters: Cersei Lannister, King Aerys Targaryen II, Melara, Margery Tyrell, Daenerys Targaryen, Bran Stark, Arianne Martell, Aegon ??, Gerold Dayne, and Myrcella Baratheon. Most Hated Person in Westeros Jaime Lannister is the most hated person in all of Westeros because: he murdered King Aerys Targaryen II, the king he has taken vows to defend and to protect with his life. pushed Bran Stark from the tower while guesting in Winterfell. sleeps with his new king's wife and fathers the bastards who inherits the throne. participated in the breaking of his brother's marriage. Jaime's Enemies Tyrion Lannister Bran Stark Daenerys Targaryen Aegon ?? Arya Stark Who will kill Jaime? Bran Stark is the most likely killer from the list. But there is one other who has as good a chance. The younger, more beautiful queen. And she is not on the list. This person will take everything away from Cersei. This is the clue which eliminates Daenerys Targaryen as the one who will murder everyone Cersei loves. The Tyrells already murdered Joffrey whom Cersei loved. This suspect is a Tyrell, a female, and a queen. Margery Tyrell. Myrcella, Jaime, and Tommen will be killed by the Tyrells. Margery is already a queen. Sansa can't be queen as long as Margery is alive and she is not smart enough. Arianne is younger but not more beautiful. The word valonqar comes from Valyrian. Why use this term unless the killer is Valyrian. Daenerys Targaryen is the only proven Valyrian on the suspect list but the person is someone's younger brother. My suspect is Aegon ??. He is unproven but he might have enough blood to pass for Valyrian even if it's diluted. Aegon will choke Cersei and Melara will get her justice. Gerold Dayne has no quarrel with Cersei but he is a possible Targaryen bastard. Bran Stark's Revenge The Lame One will get his revenge on Jaime but through indirect means. He might do something to put Jaime and Cersei in a defenseless situation. Bran can do the dirty deed in so many ways. Daenerys Targaryen The next book is called The Winds of Winter. All hell will break loose before Queen Daenerys Targaryen comes to Westeros. Most of the family fighting between the nobility will have been resolved before she comes. Martin is not waiting until A Dream of Spring to thin his cast of characters. Daenerys will arrive in the last book. We can interpret "taken" differently. It doesn't have to mean killed. The younger, more beautiful queen could simply take Jaime from Cersei. As in sexually. Maybe even turn him to her side. I hate Jaime. I want Drogon to burn Jaime to crispy bacon level of well-done. However, it will be Cat/LSH and Bran who will kill Jaime. Quoth the raven, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Darth Sidious said: I hate Jaime. I want Drogon to burn Jaime to crispy bacon level of well-done. However, it will be Cat/LSH and Bran who will kill Jaime. I’m taking a picture of this so I have proof to show you when you are wrong Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 I’d have no issue with the Starks executing Jaime. They have good reason too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said: I’m taking a picture of this so I have proof to show you when you are wrong I seriously doubt Bran will have any role in Jaime's death. However, I would not be at all surprised if Cat/LSH played a part. I'm of the opinion Jaime dies in the early going in Winds. Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 On 5/8/2023 at 8:48 PM, Castellan said: Speaking of mob justice, the one person who truly call out for it is Ramsay Snow. I mean talk about most hated person. How can anyone read about him and not put him at the top of the list. As I was reading the books I was thinking I wish all these other characters would just call a truce in their wars and disputes, hunt down Ramsay Snow and kill him, and then get back to it. Like that'll happen. Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 10 hours ago, Darth Sidious said: I hate Jaime. I want Drogon to burn Jaime to crispy bacon level of well-done. However, it will be Cat/LSH and Bran who will kill Jaime. Reverse UNO, I want Jaime to murder the absolute heck out of Drogon. Nothing against Drogon, I would just find it amusing if the one handed pretty boy took down a literal dragon in addition to a metaphorical one. Curled Finger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 6:35 AM, SeanF said: Among the fandom, I think that Jaime is generally held in higher regard than he deserves. I agree with this. He is a very fascinating character though, in my opinion. He has a false/broken redemption arc for sure, but it's the way his motives switch at the push of a button for me. He'll go from genuinely believing he's doing the right thing, to just "doing the right thing" simply because he thinks it would be funny and unexpected. He would be the epitome of "never let them know your next move" if he wasn't so terrible at trying to be unpredictable. The only person he ever surprises is himself. #boyfail Honestly, I love him the way he is. I love an entertaining character. Curled Finger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said: I agree with this. He is a very fascinating character though, in my opinion. He has a false/broken redemption arc for sure, but it's the way his motives switch at the push of a button for me. He'll go from genuinely believing he's doing the right thing, to just "doing the right thing" simply because he thinks it would be funny and unexpected. He would be the epitome of "never let them know your next move" if he wasn't so terrible at trying to be unpredictable. The only person he ever surprises is himself. #boyfail Honestly, I love him the way he is. I love an entertaining character. The thing is, redemption has to involve more than feeling bad about the bad things you’ve done. He does some good, like protecting Pia, and rescuing Brienne, but he has no qualms about breaking the terms of Catelyn’s release, and threatening her brother and his unborn son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, SeanF said: The thing is, redemption has to involve more than feeling bad about the bad things you’ve done. He does some good, like protecting Pia, and rescuing Brienne, but he has no qualms about breaking the terms of Catelyn’s release, and threatening her brother and his unborn son. And given where he is now he might not get the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, SeanF said: The thing is, redemption has to involve more than feeling bad about the bad things you’ve done. He does some good, like protecting Pia, and rescuing Brienne, but he has no qualms about breaking the terms of Catelyn’s release, and threatening her brother and his unborn son. I agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) Quote Jaime’s family is too strong for the Starks at the moment. Bran will have to use unfair methods to get to Jaime. Whereas the Tyrells are strong enough to attack Jaime directly. They won’t even need an excuse because Jaime is widely despised. Edited May 10, 2023 by Moiraine Sedai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 11 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Like that'll happen. well, that's my fantasy novel. or chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said: Jaime’s family is too strong for the Starks at the moment. Bran will have to use unfair methods to get to Jaime. Whereas the Tyrells are strong enough to attack Jaime directly. They won’t even need an excuse because Jaime is widely despised. Well, Jaime's headed right in one of their directions. If a miracle doesn't happen, he'll get a short drop and a sudden stop (and GRRM isn't the type for miracles). Edited May 11, 2023 by Angel Eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illrede Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 13 hours ago, SeanF said: The thing is, redemption has to involve more than feeling bad about the bad things you’ve done. He does some good, like protecting Pia, and rescuing Brienne, but he has no qualms about breaking the terms of Catelyn’s release, and threatening her brother and his unborn son. The desire for reform is there, but there's just not much opportunity and he still is a bit of a narcissist (albeit a sometimes self-loathing one) and he means to get away with it all (he'll sin no more, but he's not going to submit to judgement for anything). He was pretty honest with the Blackfish (in that there was nothing at all to be done, once he got to Kings Landing), and he told no lies in the White Book. It's enough to be tragic, I think. He did move himself out of "problem" category and into the "solution" one, there is that. I don't think he deserves anything in the way of public credit, mind- he was part of the problem. Aldarion, Ser Arthurs Dawn and SeanF 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 On 5/10/2023 at 6:04 AM, SeanF said: The thing is, redemption has to involve more than feeling bad about the bad things you’ve done. He does some good, like protecting Pia, and rescuing Brienne, but he has no qualms about breaking the terms of Catelyn’s release, and threatening her brother and his unborn son. You know, I've thought about this. In general I enjoy this character and by nature tend to sympathize with traumatized kids. I don't love Jamie. He just gives me hope, feeble tenuous hope. It's so good to see a lousy bastard try to do better, turn it around. And you know you can't trust him though you want to. Then I wonder what Martin is placing value on in the character of Jamie Lannister. What's real and what's window dressing? Love him or hate him, he is a damned interesting character. That said what should he have done at Riverrun? He didn't harm the Tullys, only threatened to. What would have happened if Edmure had said, "So?" You are in Jamie's head. You read his thoughts. Menace isn't there, it's keeping straight and narrow, fantasizing he might some day be the Just Golden Hand or some absurd thing. What would you have done if you were writing Jamie Lannister in this situation knowing what's in his head? FWIW I haven't come up with a better resolution than what I read. The Kingslayer won't be a good guy no matter how good he gets. He is broken though there is real decency in him. Yet he may be a hero when a hero is needed. Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 5 hours ago, Curled Finger said: You know, I've thought about this. In general I enjoy this character and by nature tend to sympathize with traumatized kids. I don't love Jamie. He just gives me hope, feeble tenuous hope. It's so good to see a lousy bastard try to do better, turn it around. And you know you can't trust him though you want to. Then I wonder what Martin is placing value on in the character of Jamie Lannister. What's real and what's window dressing? Love him or hate him, he is a damned interesting character. That said what should he have done at Riverrun? He didn't harm the Tullys, only threatened to. What would have happened if Edmure had said, "So?" You are in Jamie's head. You read his thoughts. Menace isn't there, it's keeping straight and narrow, fantasizing he might some day be the Just Golden Hand or some absurd thing. What would you have done if you were writing Jamie Lannister in this situation knowing what's in his head? FWIW I haven't come up with a better resolution than what I read. The Kingslayer won't be a good guy no matter how good he gets. He is broken though there is real decency in him. Yet he may be a hero when a hero is needed. Internally, he comments about not making threats you won’t carry out. He’d have killed the baby. I also think he’s interesting. But, I think his redemption is (at this point) not far advanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 14 hours ago, SeanF said: Internally, he comments about not making threats you won’t carry out. He’d have killed the baby. I also think he’s interesting. But, I think his redemption is (at this point) not far advanced. If he ever gets that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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