Jaime, the Most Hated Person

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

I think you will like my new writing style.  I will be talking about these characters for this topic.

Subject:  Jaime Lannister

Other Characters:  Cersei Lannister, King Aerys Targaryen II, Melara, Margery Tyrell, Daenerys Targaryen, Bran Stark, Arianne Martell, Aegon ??, Gerold Dayne, and Myrcella Baratheon.

Most Hated Person in Westeros

Jaime Lannister is the most hated person in all of Westeros because:

• he murdered King Aerys Targaryen II, the king he has taken vows to defend and to protect with his life.
• pushed Bran Stark from the tower while guesting in Winterfell.
• sleeps with his new king's wife and fathers the bastards who inherits the throne.
• participated in the breaking of his brother's marriage.

Jaime's Enemies

• Tyrion Lannister
• Bran Stark
• Daenerys Targaryen
• Aegon ??
• Arya Stark

Who will kill Jaime?

Bran Stark is the most likely killer from the list.  But there is one other who has as good a chance.  The younger, more beautiful queen.  And she is not on the list.

This person will take everything away from Cersei.  This is the clue which eliminates Daenerys Targaryen as the one who will murder everyone Cersei loves.  The Tyrells already murdered Joffrey whom Cersei loved.  This suspect is a Tyrell, a female, and a queen.  Margery Tyrell.  Myrcella, Jaime, and Tommen will be killed by the Tyrells.  Margery is already a queen.  Sansa can't be queen as long as Margery is alive and she is not smart enough.   Arianne is younger but not more beautiful. 

The word valonqar comes from Valyrian.  Why use this term unless the killer is Valyrian.  Daenerys Targaryen is the only proven Valyrian on the suspect list but the person is someone's younger brother.  My suspect is Aegon ??.  He is unproven but he might have enough blood to pass for Valyrian even if it's diluted.  Aegon will choke Cersei and  Melara will get her justice.  Gerold Dayne has no quarrel with Cersei but he is a possible Targaryen bastard. 

Bran Stark's Revenge

The Lame One will get his revenge on Jaime but through indirect means.  He might do something to put Jaime and Cersei in a defenseless situation.  Bran can do the dirty deed in so many ways. 

Daenerys Targaryen

The next book is called The Winds of Winter.  All hell will break loose before Queen Daenerys Targaryen comes to Westeros.  Most of the family fighting between the nobility will have been resolved before she comes.  Martin is not waiting until A Dream of Spring to thin his cast of characters.  Daenerys will arrive in the last book.

We can interpret "taken" differently.  It doesn't have to mean killed.  The younger, more beautiful queen could simply take Jaime from Cersei.  As in sexually.  Maybe even turn him to her side. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by H Wadsworth Longfellow

[Springwatch]

I think it's probably going to be important that Jaime survives, at least until magic is brought to an end - he has so much sun imagery.

Anyway - you miss out Stoneheart. I'm not sure about Stoneheart either, but she's got to come first in a list like this.

3 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

I think you will like my new writing style.

Very nice. Is it html?

[Curled Finger]

8 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Bran Stark's Revenge

The Lame One will get his revenge on Jaime but through indirect means. 

 As a disabled person, I find this comment really disparaging.  I want to say broad, mean things right back at you, OP, but this probably says enough about you all by itself.  You shouldn't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

[LongRider]

Wait, what about Jon Snow?   I've been hearing so much about how horrible and hated he is.  Now all of a sudden, it's Jamie Lannister?    

[Craving Peaches]

Literally no one who knows why Jaime killed Aerys would hate him for it apart from delusional Targaryen fanatics.

[StarkTullies]

10 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

sleeps with his new king's wife and fathers the bastards who inherits the throne

You left out the part that "his new king's wife" happens to be his sister.  I know Targaryens and their most militant supporters think that sibling fornications deserves celebration and applause, but most readers and most Westerosi would find the fact that Cersei is his twin sister far more repulsive than the fact that she is his king's wife.

10 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Tyrion Lannister

Jaime is angry that Tyrion murdered his father (and supposedly murdered his son), but vengeance on Tyrion is not top on his mind.  Jaime hates Cersei more than he hates Tyrion where the story left off, it seems.

10 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

The Lame One will get his revenge on Jaime but through indirect means.  He might do something to put Jaime and Cersei in a defenseless situation.  Bran can do the dirty deed in so many ways. 

First, I agree with the above criticism against your use of derogatory terms.

Second, there are a plethora of anti-Stark posters on this forum predicting what Bran will do "when" he finds out that Jaime attacked him... but he already remembered long ago.  And there has not been one single thought of revenge against Jaime in his mind since then.  Bran is not the Dark Lord or master of vengeance that Stark-haters want him to be.

At current time, Jaime and Bran are not enemies.

10 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

All hell will break loose before Queen Daenerys Targaryen comes to Westeros.  Most of the family fighting between the nobility will have been resolved before she comes.

All hell broke out long ago and things are likely to get worse, and will continue to do so when Dany arrives.  She does not intend to use her dragons and Dothraki as instruments of peace.

Arya's list is very specific, and Jaime is not on it.  She's given zero thought to Jaime, and though Jaime once intended to murder Arya to please Cersei, that desire is not lingering.  Jaime and Arya are not enemies either.

Lady Stoneheart is Jaime's enemy, however.

Edited May 7, 2023 by StarkTullies

[Alester Florent]

10 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Most Hated Person in Westeros

Jaime Lannister is the most hated person in all of Westeros because:

• he murdered King Aerys Targaryen II, the king he has taken vows to defend and to protect with his life.
• pushed Bran Stark from the tower while guesting in Winterfell.
• sleeps with his new king's wife and fathers the bastards who inherits the throne.
• participated in the breaking of his brother's marriage.

When you say "most hated person in Westeros" I presume you mean by other characters within the setting. In which case:

• Yes
• Nobody knows about this apart from Bran and Cat, and possibly one or two others. Its impact on Jaime's perception among the Westerosi is negligible.
• I think this affects his reputation less than you might think, in large part because the allegations were never proven and now will probably never be. It's an allegation which has had relatively little, er, penetration. On Jaime's tour of the Riverlands his popularity seems undiminished, by this allegation at least.
• At first I thought you meant Sansa and then realised you meant Tysha. Only four people know about this, of whom one (Tywin) is dead, one (Tysha) is irrelevant, and one is Jaime himself. Tyrion might be furious with Jaime about this, but he's also just one guy.

So I don't think this stands up to scrutiny if we're looking at in-world perception. Now, the first of these reasons, the killing of Aerys II, is something which has definitely caused significant damage to Jaime's reputation. But is he really more hated within the setting than Tywin, whose brutal sack of King's Landing is remembered with resentment fifteen years later, or whose ravaging of the Riverlands has caused untold suffering? Or Gregor Clegane, the animal whose atrocities are legend? Or Tyrion, the "Imp" who (for all anyone knows) murdered his nephew the king? Or Walder Frey, who violated the most sacred rule in Westeros in the most appalling way? Or Euron Greyjoy, who... well, obviously?

I don't think so.

Among the fans, the above reasoning would hold better... except I don't think this is actually borne out in practice. In the first two books, yes, Jaime is one of the most hated and hateable characters, but when we consider only people who have read all five I think that Jaime is actually one of the fan-favourite characters at least among the PoVs. There are some readers who will never stop hating him and while I may disagree, that's fine. But I don't think the contention that "Jaime is the most hated person in Westeros" holds up among either constituency.

@StarkTullies

Quote

Jaime is angry that Tyrion murdered his father (and supposedly murdered his son), but vengeance on Tyrion is not top on his mind.  Jaime hates Cersei more than he hates Tyrion where the story left off, it seems.

The OP may be referring to Tyrion's attitude towards Jaime. Tyrion is furious about the Tysha business and while he may eventually soften on this, his attitude towards Jaime throughout ADwD is hostile, in sharp contrast to previously.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Alester Florent

[csuszka1948]

Jaime is pretty widely disliked but I am not sure he is more hated than his father.

I think he will die either at the hands of the Others or by committing suicide after killing Cersei.

[Nevets]

I don't think Jaime is anywhere near the most hated.  Even among readers, when it comes to POVs Cersei is almost universally hate, and even Theon and Victarion are probably more disliked than Jaime.  

Once you get into non POVs his father is likely more hated.  And guys like Ramsay and Euron are so bad they make Jaime look like a mere naughty schoolboy.

As for his named enemies, Tyrion has it in for him.  I'm not sure about Bran.  It's unclear how much he remembers, though he doesn't think much about Jaime.  He's a long way away though, and unlikely to get closer. 

Daenerys, Aegon, and Arya barely know he exists, and vice versa.  He has nothing to fear from them, for now at least.  His immediate enemy is Lady Stoneheart.  She and those around her would like nothing more than to see him dangling from a tree.

I agree that Margaery is the younger and more beautiful that takes down Cersei.  This is because Cersei is making it so, and Margaery will do so out of self preservation.  With the valonqar, it is worth noting that Tyrion is in an area where Valerian is used (I think).  Given that he is a little brother, I can imagine him getting the nickname valonqar.

[Alester Florent]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

Daenerys, Aegon, and Arya barely know he exists, and vice versa.

I'm pretty sure Dany knows he exists! He murdered her dad, and she has Barristan on her shoulder who probably knows Jaime as well as anyone besides Brienne and the other Lannisters. Isn't there a point where she flips out at Barristan for offandedly referencing Jaime as a great swordsman?

[Castellan]

I presume Bran will not be powered by emotions such as vengeance in his horrible fate as all seeing tree.

Lady Stoneheart, Brienne or Brynden are most likely to kill Jaime when he arrives at the BWB camp, either outright or in a trial by combat for breaking his vows to Lady S.

Of course, he will probably be resurrected to be the latest undead a la Beric, Lady S and possibly, already, Brienne.

If he was ever confronted by Daenerys, he has the one slim lifeline, that if he is not too proud to give her his reasons for killing Aerys, she will recognise the scene she saw in the house of the undying where Aerys orders the destruction of KL. I can't really see him encountering her. I am not sure if all these main characters will ever meet up and its quite possible some will die obscure deaths along the path to (hopefully) driving the Others back. I think this is particularly likely for Jaime.

Jaime has not made it to Arya's kill list so I don't count her.

Tyrion certainly hates him and has dreamed of killing him.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Bran and Jaime are fated to meet again.  The war between Lannister and Stark is not done.  Bran will get his revenge on Jaime and I agree with the OP, it will be indirect.  I could see Bran using a skin changed Robert Strong to take out Jaime. 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

2 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Bran and Jaime are fated to meet again.  The war between Lannister and Stark is not done.  Bran will get his revenge on Jaime and I agree with the OP, it will be indirect.  I could see Bran using a skin changed Robert Strong to take out Jaime. 

See, I know you are just saying shit, but this would be kinda dope. As much as I love Jaime. Bran getting justice for what Jaime did to him that way would be cool. Maybe throwing him from a tower in the Red Keep. Bran likely won’t care much for revenge against Jaime though, considering his integral part in ending the Long Night.

[Darth Sidious]

 Bran and Catelyn will kill Jaime. Aegon and Daenerys haven’t met Jaime. He’s a distant enemy who killed a man they never knew. Margery gets her power from the Lannisters. And Maggy was only taunting Cersei.

[SeanF]

Jaime is pretty well hated across the Seven Kingdoms.  Partisans of the Starks, Tullys, Targaryens, as well as the Dornish, would all string him up on the spot.  And, he is widely viewed as a despicable traitor to his king.

While his motivation for killing Aerys was based upon more than self-interest, he has no qualms about his and Cersei’s selfishness sparking off a civil war, and likely condemning his children to death.  Nor is he bothered about breaching the terms upon which Catelyn released him.  

Edited May 8, 2023 by SeanF

[Aldarion]

On 5/7/2023 at 5:12 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Literally no one who knows why Jaime killed Aerys would hate him for it apart from delusional Targaryen fanatics.

Problem is that nobody knows. Jaime has literally the worst PR in the series.

And by this point, he has actually done a lot of bad stuff... which he did because he was bitter about people giving him crap for a justified action which he never bothered to explain why it was justified.

Guy's basically Stannis in that regard.

[Curled Finger]

I am reading all these replies about how (not) hated Jamie Lannister is and remembering this: 

It hadn't been until the woman slid in under his blankets and put his good hand on her breast that he roused. She was a pretty little thing, too. "I was a slip of a girl when you came for Lord Whent's tourney and the king gave you your cloak," she confessed. "You were so handsome all in white, and everyone said what a brave knight you were. Sometimes when I'm with some man, I close my eyes and pretend it's you on top of me, with your smooth skin and gold curls. I never truly thought I'd have you, though."  ASOS Jamie VI

Those are the thoughts of a no one special small folk woman.   Barristan Selmy thinks quite a bit of Jamie's skill and Brienne of Tarth thinks quite a lot of Jamie personally.  To say that the Kingslayer is the most hated man in Westeros is simply untrue.  Catelyn Stark believes he will keep his word and return her daughters following his confession of pushing her son from the tower.  Brynden Tully breaks a siege just to talk to the guy because he's Jamie Lannister.   

Looking so forward to the next topic picking on maybe Jojen Reed for being the most toxic person in Westeros or a good call for mob justice against Septon Meribald.  

[Castellan]

Speaking of mob justice, the one person who truly call out for it is Ramsay Snow. I mean talk about most hated person. How can anyone read about him and not put him at the top of the list. As I was reading the books I was thinking I wish all these other characters would just call a truce in their wars and disputes, hunt down Ramsay Snow and kill him, and then get back to it.

[LongRider]

Look, claiming Jamie is the most hated in Westeros, well, that's just the silliest thing I've ever heard.   What, have you not heard of Jon Snow?    Unbelievable.      Walks away muttering and shaking her head.

[Curled Finger]

56 minutes ago, Castellan said:

Speaking of mob justice, the one person who truly call out for it is Ramsay Snow. I mean talk about most hated person. How can anyone read about him and not put him at the top of the list. As I was reading the books I was thinking I wish all these other characters would just call a truce in their wars and disputes, hunt down Ramsay Snow and kill him, and then get back to it.

Now you've done it.  The Lord of Winterfell's gonna write you a very nasty letter.