NBA Playoffs - Joker's Wild

[Proudfeet]

I don't get the situation. Was he trying for a 4 point play to tie?

Otherwise, shooting percentages aside, in a 2 possession game with the shot clock off, surely the priority is for the fastest play (not the three)?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

On 9/5/2023 at 10:02 AM, Rhom said:

I honestly don't know if he was just arguing to be contrarian (he turns 13 next week...), or if he really believed that.

Option three, you let him become a Wisconsin fan. They take bad threes and miss them all the time. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

In actual NBA news, Christian Wood signed a vet minimum contract with the Lakers.  I'm really surprised he was available for that price, I remember a lot of people being really high on him a couple of years ago.  His defense does leave a lot to be desired, but if he's playing next to Davis, I'm sure the Lakers can manage.  Seems like a potentially very good signing for them. 

I suspect there's some underlying "locker room" issues with the guy.

He seems very efficient getting the counting stats, but few seem to want him as a team-mate? Ive noticed over the years theres always a handful of players that seem good on paper but for various reasons they arent conducive to the system or they are a blackhole once the balls passed to them, they stall ball movement  etc.

Or they can also just be toxic and bring team morale down, those are the ones that end up being addition by subtraction and are easily mistook for having value because, you know, the skill at getting those counting stats.

I do not trust Woods and dont think id want him in my rotation but its more or less a suspicion, maybe he'll thrive as a Laker, we shall see?

Edited September 6, 2023 by DireWolfSpirit

[Maithanet]

I agree that the knock on Wood seems to be that he's only good for counting stats, but not for winning.  Being a bad defensive player certainly contributes to that.  Bringing down team morale is obviously a possibility, although I'm sure Wood wants to get paid and this is a "prove it" contract where he can opt out after one year.  If you can't look like a winner playing with a great defender like Davis and a great playmaker like Lebron, then his career is all but over anyway.  But I think there's a good chance that he has a good year. 

Is he "the missing piece" for the Lakers?  Almost assuredly not, that team overachieved to make the WCF and probably wasn't better than Phoenix (doubly so now that they've mortgaged their future for Beal).  Hard to imagine Wood even getting significant minutes in a playoff series against Denver, although I guess he does provide some size options if they want to go with Davis/Wood/Lebron together.  But he's a valuable rotation guy and the Lakers need depth badly. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I'm surprised Canada lost today. They were the favorite to win. Meanwhile USA is down against Germany. I do not get the way they ref this sport under European rules. They understand block/charge even worse than NBA refs do. A German player just jumped right into one of our guys taking the ball up the court and it was a foul on him? How? 

I'll never get how international games aren't played by NBA rules. It's objectively a shittier game. 

[Ramsay B.]

USA’s defense was embarrassing all game. Nonstop wide open shots by the Germans, and just out hustling USA. 

[Relic]

Yeah that was bad. Kerr coaching really shit too. Edwards taking bad shots and throwing the ball away. Just trash all around 

 

[baxus]

36 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm surprised Canada lost today. They were the favorite to win. Meanwhile USA is down against Germany. I do not get the way they ref this sport under European rules. They understand block/charge even worse than NBA refs do. A German player just jumped right into one of our guys taking the ball up the court and it was a foul on him? How? 

I'll never get how international games aren't played by NBA rules. It's objectively a shittier game. 

First of all, no way was Canada ever a favourite to win. To win a medal maybe, but no way to win.

Second,  it's not European rules, it's world rules. Everyone other than the NBA play by these rules.

Third, refs in FIBA tournaments are horrible in general. FIBA don't appoint the best refs, they include refs from all over the world, just like FIFA does. Today, a ref from Panama was appointed to officiate the semifinal match between Canada and Serbia. He was bloody useless. What level of competition does he usually officiate? Why was he considered a better fit than Euroleague refs? Because a European team was playing? A load of crap.

Fourth, no, FIBA rules don't make "objectively a shittier game". Your opinion does not equal an objective fact. This may come as a surprise but not everyone likes an endless procession of 1 on 1s and guys jumping very high. It's a tactical game, not just physical. Also, if NBA players can't adapt to this set of rules, some questions regarding their intelligence and/or motivation need to be asked.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, baxus said:

First of all, no way was Canada ever a favourite to win. To win a medal maybe, but no way to win.

Actually they were projected to be the best team.

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Second,  it's not European rules, it's world rules. Everyone other than the NBA play by these rules.

Which is dumb. Play like the top league. 99.9% of basketball players around the world want to make it to the NBA. Playing by a different set of rules is silly. 

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Third, refs in FIBA tournaments are horrible in general. FIBA don't appoint the best refs, they include refs from all over the world, just like FIFA does. Today, a ref from Panama was appointed to officiate the semifinal match between Canada and Serbia. He was bloody useless. What level of competition does he usually officiate? Why was he considered a better fit than Euroleague refs? Because a European team was playing? A load of crap.

And this makes things better? Most NBA refs suck. So we're using a lot of refs that probably might not be D2 refs here. Awesome, that's how you crown a world champion... in 2026 I hope high school refs are assigned to the World Cup. 

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Fourth, no, FIBA rules don't make "objectively a shittier game". Your opinion does not equal an objective fact. This may come as a surprise but not everyone likes an endless procession of 1 on 1s and guys jumping very high. It's a tactical game, not just physical. Also, if NBA players can't adapt to this set of rules, some questions regarding their intelligence and/or motivation need to be asked.

Lol, you sound like the guy that says the college game is better when it's clearly an inferior product. And no, it's not about not having the ability to adapt due to a lack of intelligence. Our team is just a random group of players thrown together and most of the top players give zero fucks about FIBA so they skip it. Ant is the teams best player and he's probably not one of the 10 best US players right now. Bobby Portis got serious minutes for the team and he's not even a top 100 American player in the NBA. The tournament is just not viewed as a serious thing, hence why your best player sat it out, as did pretty much all of ours. 

[Proudfeet]

Are there any significant rule differences? The obvious one is the three point line, but what other rules do players have to adapt to?

[Slurktan]

1 minute ago, Proudfeet said:

Are there any significant rule differences? The obvious one is the three point line, but what other rules do players have to adapt to?

Goaltending.  Its much better in FIBA than in the NBA.

[David Selig]

7 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

Are there any significant rule differences? The obvious one is the three point line, but what other rules do players have to adapt to?

Defenders can stay in the paint as long as they want in FIBA while the NBA has a defensive 3 seconds rule.

[Wilbur]

FIBA vs NBA officiating is an interesting one.

Recently, FIBA began to allow a lot more pronation on the dribble in these tourneys.  Otherwise, every time an American or a player from the NBA handled the ball, it would be called a carry or travel.  In a lot of the world, through, officiating on ball handling will look a lot more like 1981 than 2001.

The goaltending call is a fun one, and it would be cool to see the NBA adopt it in order to return a little value to the big men.  I have always been surprised to see NBA bigs take so little advantage of the rule over the years when the USA sent the best, and it is probably just a lack of muscle memory that prevented guys like Ewing et al. from sweeping the rim on ever single shot that wasn't a straight swish.

The international game allows for a lot more contact, and it can be a kind of throwback to the terrible NBA of the 90s and early 2000s if the refs are feeling it.  Every time Americans play international ball, they have to adjust to this physicality, especially if NBA superstars (who get preferential treatment in the league) are involved.  This is the first area where American teams lack intensity when they first begin international play.

FIBA games are shorter by eight minutes, and in some situations the clock runs as in the old high school rules in the States.  This is another area where NBA players need to scale up their intensity, as they are used to easing their way through the first 30 minutes of play, and that won't cut it in international rules.  It is go time right from the tip.

The key is a different shape, although this has less of an effect than it used to with the type of game played today.  Also, the three-point line is only nine inches longer than the current high school standard.  Everything is a three to NBA players nowadays, and this is particularly valid under FIBA dimensions.  Early games often see American teams clanging a lot of shots from distance off the back of the rim, as they don't have a good sense of the trey until they get some games under their belt.

Timeouts and fouls have different quantities and qualities (when, what they count toward, etc.)  This also varies in the States at different levels, so the American coaches ought to be able to deal with this without too much trouble.

The biggest difference, though, as Baxus noted, is that officiating on the court can be wildly divergent from game to game because the referees come from everywhere.  A set of officials from Manila are going to have a pretty good sense of flow and allow a more NBA-style of play, while a set from Bucharest may have a more rigid understanding and blow their whistle excessively.

And of course, ref competence is at the mercy of every sending country's association.  The best comparison in the States is playing four games at the high school level, one in Arizona with AIA high school refs, one in Arizona with AAU refs, one in California with CIF refs, and the last in California with AAU refs.  The standard of officiating and the level of consistency will vary significantly from game to game across all four matches.  This is very similar to how it works in a FIBA tournament with officials from different associations and countries.  NBA players are used to a specific type of officiating, and they really struggle with the constant change.

[DireWolfSpirit]

So it will be Serbia vs Germany for the Championship congrats.

I was uneasy about Kerrs roster, as it was constructed, from the earliest scrimmages against his Select practice subs.

Them not advancing to the Gold medal game isnt coming as a complete shock for me. 

[Slurktan]

25 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

So it will be Serbia vs Germany for the Championship congrats.

I was uneasy about Kerrs roster, as it was constructed, from the earliest scrimmages against his Select practice subs.

Them not advancing to the Gold medal game isnt coming as a complete shock for me. 

Their problem (as with Team Canada) is that they have no size and so got killed on the boards.  Interesting because of how the NBA is played there's not really any besides Embid that are currently good/not hurt 24/7 to come in for the olympics.  And Embid should he play (given his injury history I wouldnt) may not even play for the States.

[DireWolfSpirit]

^^^ From earlier reports Duren and Cade on the Select(subs/B) squads posed some challenges for the main team, hence my aprehension over that team construction.

Im glad both skipped playing with the main team. Cade coming back from injury fealt he needed the time to concentrate on getting aclimated with his revamped NBA team after missing most of last year.

I think Duren would have been helpful for Team USA this round but as I mentioned with Cade, Id rather see him working on becoming better with his permanent Pistons.

Injury is such a big concern with all those NBA bigs.

Props to Serbia and Germany though one of them will be the much deserved World Champ and have earned it....on....the.....court.....no.....excuses.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I was uneasy about Kerrs roster, 

As great of a coach as Kerr is, he's probably not the guy to coach the national team. Spo would have been the better HC. Kerr has been thriving in a system/style you cannot replicate, especially with just a few weeks to train together. 

1 hour ago, Slurktan said:

Their problem (as with Team Canada) is that they have no size and so got killed on the boards.  Interesting because of how the NBA is played there's not really any besides Embid that are currently good/not hurt 24/7 to come in for the olympics.  And Embid should he play (given his injury history I wouldnt) may not even play for the States.

It was a weird decision to not try and get more of the bigs to play. Walker Kessler was on the freaking team and he didn't play. They brough only a few PFs and Cs and only two of them were players that deserved to be there (and Idk if JJJ's game is best suited for the different rules). I don't finding it surprising that we didn't win, I just didn't expect the team to look that bad. The one bright spot was Ant, so as a Wolves fan, yay! 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[BigFatCoward]

13 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

Which is dumb. Play like the top league. 99.9% of basketball players around the world want to make it to the NBA. Playing by a different set of rules is silly. 

 

This right here is why the world hates America. And you are one of the alright ones. You are one 25th of the world's population, wind your neck in. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

This right here is why the world hates America. And you are one of the alright ones. You are one 25th of the world's population, wind your neck in. 

This is basically like arguing that the PL should play by different rules China and India agreed on because their populations are larger. Play like how the top players do in the by far and away best league. Maybe it will get people to care about the tournament. The elite players sure as shit don't. Jokic wears the crown right now and didn't bother to show up. That's like Messi skipping the WC. At that point you have a fundamental problem with your event. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[Slurktan]

On 9/9/2023 at 1:22 AM, Tywin et al. said:

This is basically like arguing that the PL should play by different rules China and India agreed on because their populations are larger. Play like how the top players do in the by far and away best league. Maybe it will get people to care about the tournament. The elite players sure as shit don't. Jokic wears the crown right now and didn't bother to show up. That's like Messi skipping the WC. At that point you have a fundamental problem with your event. 

It's not like Messi skipping the world cup because the FIFA world cup is the most watched and played sport in the world by far with prize money to match.  FIBA is not at that point yet because to most of the world basketball was dogshit until 1992.

EDIT:  Also... suck it America! No bronze for you

Edited September 10, 2023 by Slurktan