The Fallen Commander

[SaffronLady]

6 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

The men did what they did purely to protect the people of Westeros and themselves.

Killing a skinchanger who helps hold the Wall won't protect the people of Westeros nor themselves.

[The Commentator]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:19 PM, LongRider said:

If Jon becomes a wight, he's dead and as a dead man, he is no longer a member of the Night's Watch.  He would be a wight animated by ice, more like Cold Hands, then Beric. 

I suppose Jon could think like that .  He comes back a wight instead of a living man and his vows may no longer apply.  His loyalties will belong to the winter Gods who gives him a second chance to rescue his sister.  For that he will further his betrayal and truly switch sides.  Jon has already proven over and over that he is willing to turn his coat for the Starks.  He did when he ran away with the intention to help Robb Stark.  Then did it a second time for Arya.  Although he didn't realize the woman in the vision was not actually Arya but Jeyne.

[Maegor_the_Cool]

On 10/21/2023 at 11:59 AM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Wait, people don't like Jon Snow. I feel so confused sometimes in this forum, lol. I'd like to say...I essentially like all the main characters. All of em. Daenerys, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, Jon, Catelyn, Eddard, Davos, Theon, Bran, Jaime, Brienne, Samwell - I like them all. The only main cast I "don't" like is Cersei, but I love to hate her (she is a great villain, I love her chapters in AFfC). I didn't like Theon in ACoK, and Jaime before he was a PoV, but GRRM made me like them after all. Now there are levels to my liking of them, but I like them all. I guess I do dislike some of the less main PoVs - Aeron and Asha I essentially dislike (especially Aeron) and Victorian I am at best indifferent to. Still, I guess one of reasons I like these books so much is GRRM made a lot of really interesting main characters I want to know more about. I would think disliking a character like Jon would make the book much harder to enjoy..he is like...the second most POV chapters or something right? Granted, Tyrion (who has the most) pisses me off at times, but in the end I find his chapters highly entertaining (I guess I love to hate him, too sometimes). I can't see Jon as someone people love to hate (he isn't written villainous all that much at all). Anyways, I am rambling, I'm sorry. 

Oh, and since I want to respond to this actual topic - I agree with @LongRider above, I think Jon will be actually alive, not a reanimated corpse. I don't know how that will work exactly, but...I just can't see him being dead. 

The people who make these threads are just trolls tbh

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 7/2/2023 at 11:37 AM, The Gizzard of Oz said:

In A Game of Thrones we are treated to one of Bran Stark's visions.  One line foretold what will happen to Jon.

Why pale?  Jon was stabbed multiple times and has already lost a lot of life blood.  His body grows hard because that is rigor mortis.  The body has died and death brings stiffness.  All that are obviously what happens to somebody who went from dying to death.  Jon will die from his wounds.  His body will follow the normal course of rigor mortis.  The more intriguing part is "as the memory of all warmth fled from him."

It is an easy interpretation, warmth is life and a dead body grows cold.  But there is a deeper meaning.  Warmth is compassion and caring.  We already know what Jon was thinking in his last seconds of life.  Revenge.  Murder.   He wants to murder all of the Crows. 

Jon has chosen his side before he died.  He chose family over duty.  He chose to betray the Night's Watch and everything it has stood for.  He broke the policy of neutrality.  He betrayed justice by sparing Mance Rayder and killing Janos Slynt.  It was corruption through and through.  He sent the Wildling criminal to rescue his sister on a mission that breaks every laws, every ethics of the Night's Watch.  Jon began the destruction of the one institution protecting Westeros from the White Walkers.  That is not all though.  He will come back and he will have the White Walkers to thank for bringing him back.  His heart will be cold and he will bring death to everyone in the North and as far South as he can take his wights.  He will reach the Trident and there he will meet his final ending through Dragonfire. 

The death of duty is what Maester Aemon warned him about.  Jon is hardheaded and doesn't follow the advice.  

[Darth Sidious]

On 11/12/2023 at 12:14 AM, SaffronLady said:

Killing a skinchanger who helps hold the Wall won't protect the people of Westeros nor themselves.

They got rid of a traitor and an oathbreaker who was putting their mission and their lives in danger. 

[SaffronLady]

36 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said:

They got rid of a traitor and an oathbreaker who was putting their mission and their lives in danger. 

Now where was that line when Ned Stark was killed or when Dany was sold off, lol.

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

Jon's decisions have placed the kingdom and the nights' watch in danger.  I don't think Jon was insane but his behavior would appear so to those men who heard him speak at the shield hall public meeting.  Jon was willing to wreck it all for the sake of Arya.  Most of the men on that wall left somebody they cared for just as much behind and they managed to keep faith with their oaths.  Jon could not.  Bowen Marsh got the support to knife Jon to save the kingdom from his leadership. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 7/4/2023 at 8:05 AM, Jon Fossoway said:

Didn't he utter 'Ghost' when he was falling to the snows?

I do remember when I read AGoT for the first time, and that Bran dream, to me, just meant Bran seeing Jon in his new environment. The Wall is a cold, hard place, and Jon did want to go there and take the vows, even though in reality he had some late hour problems with it. The vision presented Jon in the process of leaving his past (life and warmth) behind as a brother of the Night's Watch. Again, that's my interpretation. I read AGoT more 20 years ago for the first time and I found it very literal in a lot of aspects that nowadays are interpreted over and over to absurdity.

Bran saw the future. He saw Jon’s death. The injuries from the attack were fatal.  

[Gilbert Green]

1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Bran saw the future. He saw Jon’s death. The injuries from the attack were fatal.  

Fatal yes, but not to Jon.  Fatal to a (warged, glamored) Cregan Karstark,

Who will now return as a (glamored-to-look-like Jon) ice wight.

And who has a mental connection to Jon, as foreshadowed by the Varamyr prologue ("she sees me!").  Evidently, complications occur when you warg a human being who then becomes a wight.

 

[Darth Sidious]

An injured man like that is not going to last long. Jon passed on soon after he kissed the ground. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:39 AM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Jon's decisions have placed the kingdom and the nights' watch in danger.  I don't think Jon was insane but his behavior would appear so to those men who heard him speak at the shield hall public meeting.  Jon was willing to wreck it all for the sake of Arya.  Most of the men on that wall left somebody they cared for just as much behind and they managed to keep faith with their oaths.  Jon could not.  Bowen Marsh got the support to knife Jon to save the kingdom from his leadership. 

Jon Snow has always been a few fries short of a happy meal.  He's not smart but he was not insane.  He was killed because it was the only way to contain the damage he was making for everybody.  

On 12/8/2023 at 3:14 PM, Gilbert Green said:

Fatal yes, but not to Jon.  Fatal to a (warged, glamored) Cregan Karstark,

Who will now return as a (glamored-to-look-like Jon) ice wight.

And who has a mental connection to Jon, as foreshadowed by the Varamyr prologue ("she sees me!").  Evidently, complications occur when you warg a human being who then becomes a wight.

 

I don't care for Jon Snow but I think he will be back.  And it's not to save Westeros or to benefit the people.  He will come back for one little thing.  Arya.  

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 11/27/2023 at 8:18 PM, Darth Sidious said:

They got rid of a traitor and an oathbreaker who was putting their mission and their lives in danger. 

And how does that factor in with trying to kill a skinchanger who was protecting the Wall? 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Jon was stabbed by multiple assassins.  It will be ridiculous if he survived.  Jon is dead.  Jon will be revived by the White Walkers.  Jon will continue his betrayal and let the Wights inside Westeros. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Here's Looking At You, Kid

[Quoth the raven,]

Protecting the wall was not what Jon was doing in his last chapters of life.  He was undermining the wall.  He wasn't doing this on purpose but he chose to risk them all for the sake of finding his sister.  He wasn't plotting against the wall.  Jon is not smart enough for that.  What he was doing to get Arya was causing problems for the Watch. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Quoth the raven,

[Aebram]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:16 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

He [Jon Snow] was killed because it was the only way to contain the damage he was making for everybody.  

Sorry, but that is simply not true.

If Bowen was a good leader, he would not have launched his surprise attack during the meeting in The Shield Hall. Instead, he would have waited until late at night, when everyone was sleeping. Then he and a few supporters would arrest Jon and move him to a cell, or perhaps just post guards outside his chambers and confine him there. Then he would confer with a few senior brothers, to make sure he had some support for becoming temporary commander, or to choose someone else for that position. The next morning, he would announce and explain his actions to everyone, and start some sort of council to decide the future of the Watch.

But Bowen is not a skilled leader. He tried to murder Jon at a time and place where his (Jon's) support was quite strong among the brothers. This, I think, is bound to unleash chaos: distrust, doubt, anger, and confusion will engulf the Watch and the wildlings. It won't surprise me if we learn that Bowen himself was killed moments later by an angry mob.

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

Jon unwittingly started the fall of the wall.  He was too attached to Arya to do his job properly.  The harm he caused and the damage they will do in the future happened because he was not a competent leader.  He had a lot of malice and misused his authority.  Bowen felled Jon but not before the latter had already began the decay of the Night's Watch and its ability to defend Westeros from the Others.  Jon's tragedy is one where an incompetent person who lacked the skills, discipline, and the intelligence to get the job done was given the lead position.

[Quoth the raven,]

Jon didn't set out to weaken the watch but that was what he was doing.  Jon had to choose between the watch and Arya.  He chose Arya even when he knew it would weaken the watch and risk the safety of everybody in Westeros.  He was just somebody who should have never been chosen to lead.  There was no time to formally charge Jon with treason because he was ready to lead the wildlings out.

[SeanF]

14 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

Jon didn't set out to weaken the watch but that was what he was doing.  Jon had to choose between the watch and Arya.  He chose Arya even when he knew it would weaken the watch and risk the safety of everybody in Westeros.  He was just somebody who should have never been chosen to lead.  There was no time to formally charge Jon with treason because he was ready to lead the wildlings out.

Who Saves A Life Saves The World.

[The Commentator]

Jon’s vows still holds when he gets revived by the White Walkers. But Jon was never good at sticking to vows before he was killed. Vows, honor, and ethics mean nothing to somebody like Jon. 

[LongRider]

On 1/10/2024 at 9:57 AM, The Commentator said:

Jon’s vows still holds when he gets revived by the White Walkers. But Jon was never good at sticking to vows before he was killed. Vows, honor, and ethics mean nothing to somebody like Jon. 

Your fanfiction is so boring.