Most stupid things Lannisters, other than Cersei and Joffrey, ever did ?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

We have talked and debatted endlessly about the incredibly crazy and stupid actions and decisions taken by Cersei and Joffrey, as queen regent and king respectively, which would have astonished even the worst Targaryen kings save perhaps for Aerys II at his maddest. 

But what about the other members of their family, the Lannister family ? What are the most crazy if not outright most stupid actions and decisions taken by other Lannisters such as Tywin, Tyrion, Jaime and others ? 

For Jaime I'd guess that acting so smug to and trying to bully and bribe a gang of sadistic and lawless madmen such as the Bloody Mummers with a condescending tone, and despite realizing that the Mummers are very dangerous and don't respect or fear him and his name, with one of them hitting him, take the cake. He was basically asking for Vargo Hoat to maim or kill him with this attitude. 

For Tyrion I would say that it is not even trying to go after Littlefinger, to actually investigate and try to get rid of him, despite knowing too well that Littlefinger framed him for the dagger and attempt on Bran Stark's life and being totally treacherous.

[James Steller]

Tywin’s most stupid act was to work so hard to make Tyrion an enemy instead of an heir. Anyone could see that Tyrion is a deeply intelligent man, if only they stopped judging him by his appearance. Tywin should have recognised how useful Tyrion was, given how well he was able to take advantage of people’s estimations.

[Otatop1000]

The Lannister who lost Brightroar comes to mind. For me.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

Tyrion doesn't confront littlefinger about the dagger

[sifth]

Jamie not getting rid of the wildfire in Kings Landing.

Edited September 6, 2023 by sifth

[Landis]

Tywin cancelling Joanna’s plan to marry the twins to Oberyn and Elia because he thought if he married Cersei to Rhaegar, or subsequently to Robert, it would help him pay his debts, despite knowing the Crown itself was obscenely debt-ridden. Oh, and not telling any of his kids about the debt, and letting them rack up further credit charges believing they were rolling in it, the utter fool.

God, like betroth them to the Tyrells or Redwynes or Hightowers. It is not that hard.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Landis

[sifth]

1 minute ago, Landis said:

Tywin cancelling Joanna’s plan to marry the twins to Oberyn and Elia because he thought if he married Cersei to Rhaegar, or subsequently to Robert, it would help him pay his debts, despite knowing the Crown itself was obscenely debt-ridden. Oh, and not telling any of his kids about the debt, and letting them rack up further credit charges believing they were rolling in it, the utter fool.

In the novels, the Lannisters aren't in debt. That was a stupid thing the tv show invented.

[Landis]

6 minutes ago, sifth said:

In the novels, the Lannisters aren't in debt. That was a stupid thing the tv show invented.

It is strongly implied.

[sifth]

Just now, Landis said:

It is strongly implied.

Where? I read the books 6 or 7 times and never picked up on that.

Edited September 6, 2023 by sifth

[Nevets]

Tywin - Letting the Tysha affair determine his attitude towards Tyrion and ruin their relationship.

Tyrion - Taking Shae to Kings Landing.  Threatening Tommen.

I give him a pass on Littlefinger. The guy is too entrenched and too well-connected to be easily dealt with.

Jaime - Having a years long affair with his sister of all people and producing three children passed off as the king's.

[Craving Peaches]

7 hours ago, Landis said:

It is strongly implied.

I would like it to be true but I don't see it. What evidence do you have? The only thing I could maybe think of is Cersei not paying off the Bank.

[Nevets]

8 hours ago, Landis said:

It is strongly implied.

 

53 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I would like it to be true but I don't see it. What evidence do you have? The only thing I could maybe think of is Cersei not paying off the Bank.

In the ADWD epilogue, Kevan Lannister thinks to himself that if the Crown can't get a loan elsewhere, that he may need to prop the government up with Lannister gold.  While he seems reluctant, there is no indication he thinks they can't afford it.  So they're not broke, and probably not even strained.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

 

In the ADWD epilogue, Kevan Lannister thinks to himself that if the Crown can't get a loan elsewhere, that he may need to prop the government up with Lannister gold.  While he seems reluctant, there is no indication he thinks they can't afford it.  So they're not broke, and probably not even strained.

Its also stupid that they are in debt given   that  (the tv writers forgot a lot of this somehow) the lannisters are still owed a monsterous sum by the crown , control  part of one of the crowns biggest ports and cities in lannisport , will have built up pricless assets from generations of being wealthy  and have  the level of wealth producing  lands one would expect of a great house all around casterly rock  !! 

When raiding the westerlands  Greatjohn umber takes control of active gold mines in 3 places one of which named is castermere......soo if the lannsiters wiped them.out and made the castermere mines work again for them  it actualy means they are wealthier than ever!!!!! The wealth from those mines is   supposedly part of what made 'the proud lord' so bold in the 1st place!!!!

Varys and LF with all their spies beteeen them have somehow not heard a peep from a.giant mining operation (esp as LF would have heard the odd reports of lannisters no longer paying in gold) running dry. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by astarkchoice

[astarkchoice]

Ok stupid mistakes 

Tyrion: taking that whore to court and drinking...if hed laid off the whores  instead of on one and drunk less  his fine work   would have had  tywins respect finaly..esp if after scaring lancel he let the boy go ,maybe even have bronn train him and podrick up to gain brownie points with his uncle too! Hed also have not threatened joff  or cersei as much too and possibly thought of more tricks for stannis.

Jamie: leading scouting parties all by his lonesome, not following up pushing bran with dislodging a heavy stone from the tower  to drop on the boy and not trying another gal but cersei 

Stafford:sentries man sentries!

Kevan: maybe check onnyour boy from time to time by raven

 

Tywin: had jamie dismissed from KG

grasped how smart tyrion was and groomed him.better

Sent letters through his sister to walder frey frim hostilites start..if the starks come south they have to pass the twins so reach out with a deal early!

Sent letters to cersei insisting ned and sansa and arya be unharmed when hed heard they were siezed.

Remarried himself to a powerful lady  outside the westerlands, set an example and form an ally

 

 

 

[Alester Florent]

1 hour ago, astarkchoice said:

Ok stupid mistakes 

Tyrion: taking that whore to court and drinking...if hed laid off the whores  instead of on one and drunk less  his fine work   would have had  tywins respect finaly..esp if after scaring lancel he let the boy go ,maybe even have bronn train him and podrick up to gain brownie points with his uncle too! Hed also have not threatened joff  or cersei as much too and possibly thought of more tricks for stannis.

 

I don't know how much of a mistake taking Shae to King's Landing actually was, in itself. He didn't take her "to court", as Tywin instructed him not to; he had her set up in a brothel away from the Red Keep, at least initially. His major mistake was threatening Tommen with a whipping in retaliation for Cersei's whipping of Alayaya. Tywin wouldn't have been thrilled that Tyrion had ignored his orders about consorting with prostitutes but so long as he kept it on the down-low I don't think he would have been too annoyed either; it was equating Tommen with a common whore that made Tywin (rightly) question Tyrion's priorities.

The real problem for Tyrion was that he was incapacitated fighting in the defence of the city, which meant that Cersei was the one to greet Tywin on his arrival in the city and immediately give him an account of Tyrion's alleged crimes without his being there to dispute them; then when he recovers he has to answer a long string of accusations. Had Tyrion been there, he'd have been the one to welcome Tywin alongside Joffrey, and the one to brief him on events in his absence, and put a better spin on his own actions so that Tywin was at least getting both sides of the story.

[Hugorfonics]

48 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

I don't know how much of a mistake taking Shae to King's Landing actually was, in itself.

She dropped like every bombshell, real and imagined, at the trial. Surely that's a mistake.

49 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

His major mistake was threatening Tommen with a whipping in retaliation for Cersei's whipping of Alayaya. Tywin wouldn't have been thrilled that Tyrion had ignored his orders about consorting with prostitutes but so long as he kept it on the down-low I don't think he would have been too annoyed either; it was equating Tommen with a common whore that made Tywin (rightly) question Tyrion's priorities.

Ok, so first of all Tywin, as seen with Tysha, literally equates every woman as a common whore.

None of this is rightly, Cersei is mentally ill and Tyrion taking Myrcella through poisoning Cersei and lying to their council (here I'll say rightly) caused her to go fucking insane and when she thought her son was now in danger she acted as she thought Daddy would and smacked up friends of the competition, Tyrion too, thought what would Daddy do?

It's a threat, not even, a bad bluff. Hear me roar? Like why the fuck is Tywin teaching his kids if he doesn't want them to use their learning?

1 hour ago, Alester Florent said:

The real problem for Tyrion was that he was incapacitated fighting in the defence of the city, which meant that Cersei was the one to greet Tywin on his arrival in the city and immediately give him an account of Tyrion's alleged crimes without his being there to dispute them; then when he recovers he has to answer a long string of accusations. Had Tyrion been there, he'd have been the one to welcome Tywin alongside Joffrey, and the one to brief him on events in his absence, and put a better spin on his own actions so that Tywin was at least getting both sides of the story.

The real problem is Tywin is bigoted against little people, equates his widowhood with his existence and most importantly is jealous af of his childrens far greater accomplishments. 

Tyrion being around with a nose would definitely, well likely, negate Tywins savor status as Tyrion would be the commander throughout the battle but as far as Cersei being like "I'm telling!", Yea, Tyrions fucked in succession. Tywin will take his princesses side over Tyrion any day. (But pretty much only Tyrion, Tywin will take anybody else's side over his princesses too) 

Imo Tywin was right about one thing, how much of a difference itd make, short of a nose, or not a nose, Who knows?

Quote

Lord Tywin studied his son's disfigured face, his pale green eyes unflinching. "Though the wound is ghastly enough, I'll grant you. What madness possessed you?"

"The foe was at the gates with a battering ram. If Jaime had led the sortie, you'd call it valor."

"Jaime would never be so foolish as to remove his helm in battle. I trust you killed the man who cut you?"

And like he was about to drown and stuff but, 

Quote

The white roses drew back, as men always did at the sight of Victarion Greyjoy armed and armored, his face hidden behind his kraken helm. They were clutching swords and spears and axes, but nine of every ten wore no armor, and the tenth had only a shirt of sewn scales. These are no ironmen, Victarion thought. They still fear drowning.

It drives me nuts in tv shows and movies, like I get you wanna show the actors faces but they really gonna have no helmet?

[Odej]

Jaime's idea of telling everyone the true about his incestuous relationship with Cersei so they could live together.

Jaime's intention of killing Arya out of Cersei's desire after Nymeria attacked Joffrey.

It's said Aerys did many things only to be contrary to Tywin's wishes cause the king was jealous of his Hand, it never ocurred to Tywin to use reverse psychology? 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Odej

[Alester Florent]

15 minutes ago, Odej said:

It's said Aerys did many things only to be contrary to Tywin's wishes cause the king was jealous of his Hand, it never ocurred to Tywin to use reverse psychology? 

A conspiracy theorist would (and I believe, did) suggest that Tywin exploited this in getting Aerys to go to Duskendale, in the hope that he would be killed.

I don't buy it myself, but it's an interesting take.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, Alester Florent said:

I don't know how much of a mistake taking Shae to King's Landing actually was, in itself. He didn't take her "to court", as Tywin instructed him not to; he had her set up in a brothel away from the Red Keep, at least initially. His major mistake was threatening Tommen with a whipping in retaliation for Cersei's whipping of Alayaya. Tywin wouldn't have been thrilled that Tyrion had ignored his orders about consorting with prostitutes but so long as he kept it on the down-low I don't think he would have been too annoyed either; it was equating Tommen with a common whore that made Tywin (rightly) question Tyrion's priorities.

The real problem for Tyrion was that he was incapacitated fighting in the defence of the city, which meant that Cersei was the one to greet Tywin on his arrival in the city and immediately give him an account of Tyrion's alleged crimes without his being there to dispute them; then when he recovers he has to answer a long string of accusations. Had Tyrion been there, he'd have been the one to welcome Tywin alongside Joffrey, and the one to brief him on events in his absence, and put a better spin on his own actions so that Tywin was at least getting both sides of the story.

it was his chance to rise above any rep of a drunken lil whoremonger and minus shae hed have had more free time to work , wouldnt have threatened cersei or joff, would have had some of his best guys working or training rookies instead of guarding her, varys would have had no leverage over him ( he wouldnt have killed the singer but that was no great loss) 

.but most of all the issue of him   seemingly fall for one whore/ commoner again, multiple whores wouldnt have been as damaging as him being loved up with one whore!

[Alester Florent]

58 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

minus shae hed have had more free time to work ,

I mean you could say the same about any relationship. I don't think that's necessarily healthy.

Not that Tyrion's relationship with Shae is healthy either, but I don't think that's a valid criticism.