Skahaz mo Kandaq and the Brazen Beasts

[Aline de Gavrillac]

SmK is my favorite Ghiscari.  I believe his loyalty to Dany is genuine and he can be trusted to enforce her will.  The Brazen Beasts is a fine component for an Anti-Terrorists force.  It was a great idea to hide their faces while they maintain order within the city of Meereen.  They are my second favorite of Dany's military forces.  The Unsullied are my favorite, then the Brazen Beasts, and the Dothraki.  That could change if the cadets and recruits in training were to prove their loyalty and dedication.  

[Bowen Marsh]

Skahaz is loyal to Dany and that makes me like him also.  It is Reznak's loyalty that is in question.

[Quoth the raven,]

Skahaz is indeed loyal.  His loyalty opens the way for Daenerys to leave Meereen in capable hands so she can claim her father's kingdom that is now hers.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

Well if Skahaz poisoned tbe locusts, that puts his loyalty in question. You know, I subscribe to an alternate theory though. That Skahaz’s plan was a fake poisoning. It doesn’t benefit Skahaz if Daenerys dies, nor if Hizdarh is poisoned or dies. That makes the locusts toooo random. However, I think it is possible Belwas was poisoned another way (but thr goal was not death, but illness). Still it does put Skahaz’s loyalty in question, as he is still poisoning Dany’s man for personal gain, rather than following Daenerys’s orders. 

My basic point is I think Skahaz is semi-loyal, but he is also looking out for himself first. Hizdahr was a direct threat to Skahaz’s power and even life, and he needed him removed. Which is why I do believe Skahaz is behind whatever happened to Belwas. He then perfectly played Barristan and removed Hizdahr. Anyways, that is my opinion. Semi-loyal. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

Poisoning the locusts is an insanely risky play. Besides that, he had no way of knowing if Dany is even willing to eat locusts.  
 

I think the Harpies wanted to at least disable Dany’s bodyguard. With poisoned locusts. A belly already full of liver and onions might have reduced the effects of the poison. 

[Dofs]

I don't believe he is loyal, more like he just tries to get as much power as he can.

[sifth]

The poisoned locusts never made sense to me. It’s a food that Dany doesn’t even like. Which means the poisoner would have to be an idiot.

Edited October 7, 2023 by sifth

[Craving Peaches]

7 minutes ago, sifth said:

The poisoned locusts never made sense to me. It’s a food that Dany doesn’t even like. Which means the poisoner would have to be an idiot.

I think they were for Belwas. Someone was trying to rig the games.

[BalerionTheCat]

I'm not sure, but I would believe the poisoning was not meant to be fatal. Only to incapacitate Dany for a time. To instate a coup, but without removing her. Maybe Skahaz to get rid of Hizdahr. Or the Green Grace to get rid of Skahaz.

None of the Ghiscari are loyal to Dany. They all know she will leave Meereen. They are playing their own game of throne, to seize power once she will be gone. They are playing her, one against the others. Counting on her reaction to events. She is the Dragon of the Cyvasse game.

Edited October 8, 2023 by BalerionTheCat

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

2 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I'm not sure, but I would believe the poisoning was not meant to be fatal. Only to incapacitate Dany for a time. To instate a coup, but without removing her. Maybe Skahaz to get rid of Hizdahr. Or the Green Grace to get rid of Skahaz.

None of the Ghiscari are loyal to Dany. They all know she will leave Meereen. They are playing their own game of throne, to seize power once she will be gone. They are playing her, one against the others. Counting on her reaction to events. She is the Dragon of the Cyvasse game.

Well that isn't true. The Freedmen (and women) are 100% loyal to Daenerys. Many of them are Ghiscari, whether ethnically or culturally (or both). Ghiscari are not only former slave masters, but also the former slaves.

Also, and this is more vague, I would argue the Brazen Beasts (at least some members) are loyal to her. Even if Skahaz is playing his own game, not every single Brazen Beast would be doing that. There is at least a portion of them who are probably supporting her. Just to give example from real history, abolitionists have existed pretty much in every culture in which slavery has existed. There are always those who see it as inhumane and/or immoral. I do believe some former "masters" were probably abolitionists, and many of them are probably either Shavpates or Brazen Beasts now. 

20 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Poisoning the locusts is an insanely risky play. Besides that, he had no way of knowing if Dany is even willing to eat locusts.  
 

I think the Harpies wanted to at least disable Dany’s bodyguard. With poisoned locusts. A belly already full of liver and onions might have reduced the effects of the poison. 

How would they know Belwas would eat them? That takes an even bigger leap I think. Ironically, the most likely person to eat them would be Hizdahr. Which, if the goal was to poison HIzdahr, I think the poisoner HAS to be Skahaz pretty much, as who else would want him poisoned? I guess Qynten Martell (but we see his POV, and I think he'd mention if he poisoned some locusts, lol). 

If the goal was Belwas (I think it might have been) then I think he was poisoned another way (not the locusts). Perhaps the liver and onions? And as I said above, if the goal was Belwas, then I still think it was Skahaz, with his goal being to remove Hizdahr from power. He couldn't have possibly planned for Daenerys disappearing on Drogon...so I guess he was planning to run his scheme on Daenerys instead of Barristan. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Lord of Raventree Hall

[BalerionTheCat]

2 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Well that isn't true. The Freedmen (and women) are 100% loyal to Daenerys. Many of them are Ghiscari, whether ethnically or culturally (or both). Ghiscari are not only former slave masters, but also the former slaves.

Some slaves, yes. Rather the weakest. Not the pit fighters for example. How many were cheering in the pit? Appalling! None of them understand what Dany wants. And  Astapor and its council is a sorry example of how much the slaves are united and share her vision of freedom. Some factions of them are probably jostling for power with the old masters and party in the mess.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

5 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Some slaves, yes. Rather the weakest. Not the pit fighters for example. How many were cheering in the pit? Appalling! None of them understand what Dany wants. And  Astapor and its council is a sorry example of how much the slaves are united and share her vision of freedom. Some factions of them are probably jostling for power with the old masters and party in the mess.

I mean the leader's of Dany's Free companies...seem somewhat competent and loyal to Daenerys. For example, isn't Symon Stripeback ...Ghiscari? Or am I wrong? 

[BalerionTheCat]

1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I mean the leader's of Dany's Free companies...seem somewhat competent and loyal to Daenerys. For example, isn't Symon Stripeback ...Ghiscari? Or am I wrong?

Stripeback seems (by his whipping) completely opposed to the slavery system. One of your abolitionists. I'm sure Dany has some other true support. The Stalwart Shields, the Mother's Men also seem reliable. But how many are they? Beside, their leaders could be assassinated or killed and replaced by less valorous men. I feel there are less of Stripebacks than of Cleons. Not enough to matter. And what will they do when she abandons them there? Alone to protect Meeren.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:44 AM, Bowen Marsh said:

Skahaz is loyal to Dany and that makes me like him also.  It is Reznak's loyalty that is in question.

 

On 9/17/2023 at 7:57 PM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

SmK is my favorite Ghiscari.  I believe his loyalty to Dany is genuine and he can be trusted to enforce her will.  The Brazen Beasts is a fine component for an Anti-Terrorists force.  It was a great idea to hide their faces while they maintain order within the city of Meereen.  They are my second favorite of Dany's military forces.  The Unsullied are my favorite, then the Brazen Beasts, and the Dothraki.  That could change if the cadets and recruits in training were to prove their loyalty and dedication.  

The ones who were freed and are now going through basic military training will be loyal because they owe their freedom to Dany.  Skahaz is loyal because his family was the enemy of the Loraqs.  I don't know what the feud was about but Skahaz was ready enough to accept letting the slaves go free.

[John Suburbs]

On 9/17/2023 at 7:57 PM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

SmK is my favorite Ghiscari.  I believe his loyalty to Dany is genuine and he can be trusted to enforce her will.  The Brazen Beasts is a fine component for an Anti-Terrorists force.  It was a great idea to hide their faces while they maintain order within the city of Meereen.  They are my second favorite of Dany's military forces.  The Unsullied are my favorite, then the Brazen Beasts, and the Dothraki.  That could change if the cadets and recruits in training were to prove their loyalty and dedication.  

It's hard to say if he's loyal to Dany or just disloyal to the greater families who've always looked down on his. He might be using her as an opportunity to remake Meereenese society in his favor.

[John Suburbs]

On 10/7/2023 at 6:01 AM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Well if Skahaz poisoned tbe locusts, that puts his loyalty in question. You know, I subscribe to an alternate theory though. That Skahaz’s plan was a fake poisoning. It doesn’t benefit Skahaz if Daenerys dies, nor if Hizdarh is poisoned or dies. That makes the locusts toooo random. However, I think it is possible Belwas was poisoned another way (but thr goal was not death, but illness). Still it does put Skahaz’s loyalty in question, as he is still poisoning Dany’s man for personal gain, rather than following Daenerys’s orders. 

My basic point is I think Skahaz is semi-loyal, but he is also looking out for himself first. Hizdahr was a direct threat to Skahaz’s power and even life, and he needed him removed. Which is why I do believe Skahaz is behind whatever happened to Belwas. He then perfectly played Barristan and removed Hizdahr. Anyways, that is my opinion. Semi-loyal. 

It's doubtful that Skaz did that. The more likely culprit is Hizdahr -- not to kill Dany but to purge her womb.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

2 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

It's doubtful that Skaz did that. The more likely culprit is Hizdahr -- not to kill Dany but to purge her womb.

Honestly, I think it was obviously not Hizdahr...that just isn't how GRRM writes. Hizdahr is too obvious to have been the actual culprit. He's the patsy. 

[John Suburbs]

1 minute ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Honestly, I think it was obviously not Hizdahr...that just isn't how GRRM writes. Hizdahr is too obvious to have been the actual culprit. He's the patsy. 

Could be, but even if it turns out to be the Green Grace or someone, the intent was not to kill Dany. The Meereenese undoubtedly have access to far more lethal poisons -- the strangler, ToL, etc -- that kill regardless of size or weight. If they wanted Dany dead, then Belwas would be dead now.

 

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

57 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Could be, but even if it turns out to be the Green Grace or someone, the intent was not to kill Dany. The Meereenese undoubtedly have access to far more lethal poisons -- the strangler, ToL, etc -- that kill regardless of size or weight. If they wanted Dany dead, then Belwas would be dead now.

 

Oh, I actually agree with that part. Nor do I think the goal was to kill Belwas. I think the goal was discord, or directly to implicate Hizdahr. And since Skahaz hates Hizdahr the most, that's why I think he is the most likely culprit. He just seems a little too much like a schemer (ie. Tyrion, Petyr, Olenna, Varys, esq.) for me to ignore how much it felt like he led Barristan around to do exactly what he wanted. That doesn't mean he doesn't support Daenerys. Tyrion supported Joffrey and still ran schemes. Olenna I think agreed with the idea of the marriage between Tyrell-Lannister, but still ran schemes. Heck, Skahaz even kind of has that role in Daenerys's small council. He gets information for her. 

[BalerionTheCat]

15 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Skahaz is loyal because his family was the enemy of the Loraqs

Indeed. That is not great for loyalty. It means Dany is an opportunity. Not that she is his enemy. But he is using her for his own political game. Planing on after she leaves for Westeros.

15 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

I don't know what the feud was about but Skahaz was ready enough to accept letting the slaves go free.

He had no choice, if he wanted to enter Dany's team. The feud was probably a business affair. Unlikely an humanitarianism ideal about freeing slaves.