Dune part 2: the spoilers must flow (Spoilers for the movies)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Guild Navigators exist, so yeah. 

Then why do the Highliners look like fixed portals that smaller ships pass through instead of starships?

[Kalbear]

19 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

There's a moment in the book - just after he discovers Jessica is the Baron's daughter- where he sees a branch in the timeline. One of the branches is the jihad, and he spends most of the book trying to avoid it before falling to it; but the other is seemingly worse ("the thought of that timeline and what lay along it sickened him"). 

The difference between them is marked out by, in the other, "he confronted an evil old Baron and said 'hello grandfather".   

Which happens in the film. 

So yes, Villeneuve appears to be deliberately making the movies an alternate timeline. 

He also mentions that the Jihad would happen no matter what, even if he dies. That said, there's some references to this being, well, another interesting storyline that would be VERY different than the books. Some speculation here.

Spoiler

The basic gist is that Leto (in Children of Dune) chides Paul for not having the courage to do the Golden Path himself, and that was the terrible choice he didn't make. The narrow path he chooses is the only possible way for him to avoid the Golden path. If that's the case, then there is no need for Paul to have kids; he's going to be the God-Emperor himself. That'd be another interesting story that would also make people angry, but would be fascinating to see. 

 

[polishgenius]

One thought I had earlier that has nothing to do with story or adaptation choices is that looking back at the first one I am glad they resisted the temptation/didn't have the means to film both together, because the conceptualisation and direction of the action scenes is so much better in 2 and I doubt it would have been that good if he hadn't had the time to build upon his experience with the first one. 

[Corvinus85]

4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Then why do the Highliners look like fixed portals that smaller ships pass through instead of starships?

I don't know how Villenueve intended to show the folding of space. But even if stargates were used, someone still needed to set them up and then use them without computers. So "navigators" would still be needed. However the dialogue in Part 1 clearly indicates the Spacing Guild was a thing. Not sure why they were thrown to the side in Part 2.

Edited March 6 by Corvinus85

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Then why do the Highliners look like fixed portals that smaller ships pass through instead of starships?

Is it? I don't know. The only time you see the highliner is when they have ships pouring out of them. I don't know what folding space is supposed to look like but seeing the other system out the ass end of the ship would be consistent with the highliner being in two places at the same time (folded space).

On balance, I'm glad the film didn't waste screen time explaining it. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Is it? I don't know. The only time you see the highliner is when they have ships pouring out of them. I don't know what folding space is supposed to look like but seeing the other system out the ass end of the ship would be consistent with the highliner being in two places at the same time (folded space).

On balance, I'm glad the film didn't waste screen time explaining it. 

Nope… in the first film you see a ship passing through a Highliner with a blue planet seen through the hole in the ship in the background.

[Luzifer's right hand]

I noticed details I did not notice before in the IMAX. So if you are a normal person unlike me and only plan to watch it once I recommend that.

I have not seen it in Dolby Cinema though and at least with the first one the sound with Dolby Atmos(which is used without Dolby Vision quite often) was superior to the one in the local IMAX. The director did recommend that sound solution for the first movie so I think you can't go wrong with picking that if you have the option as sound is a very important aspect of this movie.

 

Edited March 6 by Luzifer's right hand

[Kalbear]

24 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Nope… in the first film you see a ship passing through a Highliner with a blue planet seen through the hole in the ship in the background.

I think you're both right. It acts as a ferry and can warp things between those two places. 

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Nope… in the first film you see a ship passing through a Highliner with a blue planet seen through the hole in the ship in the background.

You see the ship come out of the highliner with a blue planet in the background. The highliner is in both places at the same time. 

Holtzman effect oooOOOOOOoooOooo scary ghost. 

Edited March 6 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Jace, Extat]

Or the planet was just behind the Highliner...

[Corvinus85]

One of those comments in the Reddit thread I think explains it well. As @Deadlines? What Deadlines? said the heighliner was in both spots in space at the same time. We don't actually see the process of folding space, we see the end of it only. I'm sure most people may have imagined that process to be near instantaneous, but maybe Villeneuve decided it would be slower. And the small ship carrying the Reverend Mother is only seen existing the heighliner, not passing through it. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

 

[Argonath Diver]

Saw it tonight on a rare night off. Just a terrific film with some superb scenes on a big screen. I'm not much for the books but I thought this one knocked it outta the park. Will read up all these spoilers once I'm home. 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

I feel like watching the children of dune miniseries now just to know what happens next,would you guys recommend it ? Haven’t read beyond Dune. 

[Jace, Extat]

38 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

I feel like watching the children of dune miniseries now just to know what happens next,would you guys recommend it ? Haven’t read beyond Dune. 

It's superb. Go for it.

[Lord Varys]

The movie gets Paul's journey very well, but not much else. Don't like fanatical godmother Jessica dancing on unborn Alia's strings. Neither the somewhat warped introduction of skeptical Fremen - Chani excluded to a point, as she knows Paul as a human being. That was a way to undermine a 'white savior' interpretation of the film, but the story, especially with 'Dune Messiah' in mind, makes it clear that the Fremen run the show and always did so. They were fed religious propaganda in the past, but they develop it themselves. Just as they turned themselves into the greatest warriors of all time. They are far better and cooler Sardaukar, and while the first movie went into Sardaukar backstory, presumably to prepare for the Fremen parallels ... the second movie did not elaborate on that.

The biggest letdown at the end is that Paul gets a real pretext/excuse for the djihad. In the book the blackmail thing works. The throne is his. He has won. But his fanatical followers torch the known universe anyway, because they must teach the heretics and heathens out there to properly respect and worship the living god. The djihad has nothing to do with seizing power or establishing Paul as emperor, it is a religious thing of the Fremen.

And, of course, the Fremen can only leave Arrakis in droves because the Guild lets them ... which they do because the Fremen can end Spice production for good. But the same thing would also force the other houses to submit. The only point of the war is religious fanaticism, there is literally no other point to it.

Also, of course, every Dune adaptation missing Hasimir Fenring sucks on principle.

Not sure about Shaddam's portrayal. His grief for Leto is nice, but why exclude that he and Leto were cousins, too, and Leto didn't marry because he aimed for an Imperial bride? And thinking about that ... Herbert himself fails to explain why sonless Shaddam didn't marry Irulan or another daughter to either Leto or Paul to diffuse the tension and set up the successor he needed. The whole Harkonnen plot only makes sense in a context where the Atreides have formed an alternative power center House Corrino cannot possibly integrate into their system. But that isn't the case.

Mohiam wanting to discard an entire bloodline in that silly fashion sounds like utter stupidity. Speaking of her, while her being Jessica's mother comes up only later in the books, it could have been interesting to show that here.

And Vladimir's plan to perhaps oust Shaddam by way of revealing the truth about the Atreides plan sounds like utter nonsense as this would likely also include the destruction of House Harkonnen by the great houses. It would have made more sense if they had planned to have Feyd-Rautha marry Irulan.

[Jace, Extat]

Ah, Count Fenring. A genetic eunich and the Emperor's only friend...

"In this I do you a favor, Your Majesty." 

Respect, Varys. Respect. That's a sublime deep cut. 

Get it? Deep. Cut. 

 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

great interview with the screenwriter - apparently the banquet scene, gurney singing, additional scenes with Thufir Hawat had all been shot but cut for Part 1 due to pacing reasons. I wonder if it’s the same with more emperor/exposition scenes in this one which people in general are complaining are missing.  Again I’m reiterating - give us an extended edition Denis ! 

Edited March 6 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II

[Heartofice]

7 hours ago, polishgenius said:

One thought I had earlier that has nothing to do with story or adaptation choices is that looking back at the first one I am glad they resisted the temptation/didn't have the means to film both together, because the conceptualisation and direction of the action scenes is so much better in 2 and I doubt it would have been that good if he hadn't had the time to build upon his experience with the first one. 

In the first movie I recall there was a ‘flashforward’ with everyone fighting and Chani in some combat suit. My heart sunk when I saw this as it was pretty uninspired and looked like Halo or something. My assumption was the second movie would be like this.

Thankfully it wasn’t and that scene was never recreated.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

In the first movie I recall there was a ‘flashforward’ with everyone fighting and Chani in some combat suit. My heart sunk when I saw this as it was pretty uninspired and looked like Halo or something. My assumption was the second movie would be like this.

Thankfully it wasn’t and that scene was never recreated.

Yep even comparing Paul fighting Jamis which I thought was great when I watched Part 1,now looks uninspired compared to the Paul Vs Feyd fight which was shot in a much more interesting manner. I rewatched Part 1 yesterday and Part 2 is definitely a far superior film in comparison.

Edited March 6 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II