polishgenius

Yeah it sucks. I like several Besson films but I can't support him at this point.

I dunno if we're just arguing semantics, but I feel like 'plagiarism', specifically, has a way higher bar than a lot of people realise. A plot similarity that vague was never gonna hit that bar. I mean, look at some of the LotR/Star Wars ripoffs hitting bookshelves in and around the 80s- way more plot-similar and in no danger of committing actual plagiarism. Was it derivative? Maybe, though I think TLJ is twisting on and subverting the plot points more than blindly following it than TFA did. Also: it was TFA that set up Ren training with Luke- it was TLJ that tried to spin off from the idea.

Besson was at the time in a relationship with a girl he met when she was 12, 'officially' started dating when she was 15, and got pregnant (and married) at 16. She's said since that the film was based on their relationship. He may have sanitized it for the movie but knowing that makes Portman's portrayal in it really fucking gross to me. There is also a script floating around that supposedly has scenes where they do fuck, but I don't know if that's ever been confirmed as real. There was a deleted scene filmed where they 'sleep' together but it is 'just' sleeping. I do also know that Portman feels now she was sexualised in the movie.

I've got to say, really, criticising the sequels as a whole as 'plagiarism' or a retread is unfair. TFA, obviously, yes. A lot of the criticism of TLJ was that it wasn't faithful enough, though (and a lot of the praise from those of us who are correct about it like it is because it played with expectations, too). And although it clearly ran out of ideas when somehow, Palpatine returned, TROS isn't really specifically derivative of anything- if only because it's too much of an incoherent mess to resemble anything.

Man, talk about films that are creepier in hindsight. And it's not as if it wasn't creepy at the time but knowing there's a good chance Luc Besson didn't think he was being creepy just... makes it waaaaaay worse.

I cannot imagine writing on a touchscreen myself (I barely even tweet or whatsapp from my phone), but who cares if someone does?

Quote here that describes it, albeit the OG source is gone now. The actor for Nute Gunray alludes to it here, the story for how they arrived at Thai is a little different (though it could easily just be that Carson didn't know the whole story), but it confirms that they were imitating Thai voices.

Can you seriously not tell the difference between speaking with an accent and being a racist caricature. Bear in mind that apparently the way they arrived at those voices for the Neimoidians is that they got the (English) actors to do the lines, then they recorded Thai actors repeating those lines, then recorded the original actors doing imitations of the Thai actors and used that for the film.

I'm sure they're rarer, but I've seen a few Arsenal fans online claim they'd rather City win than Spurs.

Well, yeah. The point isn't that he didn't make it, it's that 'Ewoks fighting with rubbish tech is based on the Vietcong fighting with rubbish tech' isn't racist. I suppose you could argue with the word 'primitive', if that's what he specifically used, but even that depends on how he used it. 'They used primitive weaponry' isn't the same as 'they were primitive'. Urgh. That's a tricky one.

The first one you might have a point, though I don't think the Sand People (or Tusken Raiders) are based on any specific stereotypes of Bedouin? They just wear clothes like them, coz they live in the desert. So it's not really the same as the outright horrendous racial stereotypes all over the Nemodians, or Watto. The rest is just reaching tbqh. The only thing about the Ewoks and the Vetcong was the idea that a force with massively inferior technology can defeat a superpwoer. There are no actual features about Jabba that echo stereotypes of Turks or Ottomans. Soviets isn't even a race so why would that be an issue- is it a problem that the Empire is openly Nazi? No. Borrowing isn't really the issue. The issue is when it becomes offensive stereotype. I actually do think western fantasy has an inbuilt problem because two of its foundational texts- LotR and Narnia- were written by old English Christians who were born just early enough to be terrified of the Ottoman Empire, put that prejudice (in subtler or less subtle ways) in their writing, and that carried over to the genre decades later via people who don't even realise they're doing it. You also get that crossing over with an older cultural fear of the Mongol empire in Western civilisation (which is where I think the Dothraki come from, though in terms of actual depiction they, again, avoid caricature. Martin mostly does, and much of Essos is based on Rome and Byzantium. I can't say he never trips into potentially problematic stuff, but nothing comparable to the goofy-talking yellowface in Phantom Menace). So yeah, racist stereotyping or caricature can be a problem in a lot of SF/F. That doesn't make it okay. And still very little of it is as bad as what happened with The Phantom Menace. And the thing is, I totally believe it wasn't on purpose. But it all came together horribly. And someone at some point should have noticed.

Who wants to see a cop pepper spray himself in the face.

I think the first two films in the sequel trilogy are better individually than any of the prequels - even though TFA is bland as shit- but TROS is so bad it brings the entire trilogy down retroactively, plus the lack of planning between the three does hurt the story as a whole, because there isn't one. Also: the sequels don't have the racism problems of the prequels. At least not on-screen, even though the way Fynn and Rose were treated in TROS leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I don't know it's because of the racist fan backlash.