Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well, we are only at the halfway point of the story. Who's to say a thoughtful rebuttal isn't located somewhere in the second half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well, we are only at the halfway point of the story. Who's to say a thoughtful rebuttal isn't located somewhere in the second half? In a way Chole himself is a kind of rebuttal. Sure he may have "figured it all out" but the man is clearly a mess in both time periods, it's only a matter of degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 In a way Chole himself is a kind of rebuttal. Sure he may have "figured it all out" but the man is clearly a mess in both time periods, it's only a matter of degrees.Spot on, hubby. Cohle's deeply flawed lifestyle undermines his philosophical nihilistic preachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 This is fast becoming one of my favourite pieces of tv especially given the mediocre shows on at the moment, its one of the few were i'm actively wishing I hadn't heard of it until after it had finished so I wouldn't have to wait for a week each time. Also was that last 7-ish minutes one straight shot cause if so holy shit that's great directing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sertravisredbeard Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Wow. That escalated quickly now didn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabronius Maximus Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 In a way Chole himself is a kind of rebuttal. Sure he may have "figured it all out" but the man is clearly a mess in both time periods, it's only a matter of degrees.I don't know if I would call 2012 Cohle 'a mess'. Sure he looks like a mess, but he looks more sure of himself than '95 Cohle could ever be. Now, 2012 Cohle looks like he's just given up on life, what with the dead look in his eyes. But he appears to have accepted who he is, so I wouldn't call him a mess.'95 Cohle seems to be a halfway point between earlier Cohle and his 2012 self. He spouts all of this nihilistic stuff, while likely holding on to some shred of hope that life is worth living. So at this stage (1995) he seems very volatile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't know if I would call 2012 Cohle 'a mess'. Sure he looks like a mess, but he looks more sure of himself than '95 Cohle could ever be. Now, 2012 Cohle looks like he's just given up on life, what with the dead look in his eyes. But he appears to have accepted who he is, so I wouldn't call him a mess.'95 Cohle seems to be a halfway point between earlier Cohle and his 2012 self. He spouts all of this nihilistic stuff, while likely hold on to some shred of hope that life is worth living. So at this stage (1995) he seems very volatile. You make a good point. I think from what we've seen so far the '95 Cohle is probably the more unstable version. Still the 2012 Cohle by his own admission spends his free time drinking alone. To the point where he demands a sixer (while he's already got a flask on him, mind you) before he will continue with the interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Taking AHS as an example the danger is you have a shit season and people never come back. I couldn't stand season 3 and I'm wary of watching season 4 as each installment has been worse. The concept for season 4 has to be a lot stronger. I wouldn't have a problem with a shared world anthology. The wire almost did it but we could have a second season in a world where Rust and Hart still exist even if they aren't the key players. That way there is an option for them returning if there is a story and the actors are willing. That said, we're assuming they both make it out alive. Sure, a terrible season can leave viewers jaded, but as we move ever more to binge-watching, instant downloads, Netflix and Amazon and HBO Connect, etc scheduled shows and ratings won't matter; the critic that praises a show for a great season will be key to the anthology's success. A critic or groups of friends that says "Watch the first two seasons, skip the 3rd, maybe watch the 4th" will result in the producers knowing from download numbers and sales figures which season worked, which didn't, and learn from it. Seems like a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I would do terrible things to nice people if Alexanda Daddario asked me to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 http://acculturated.com/2014/02/11/true-detective-nihilism-and-god/ It happens sometimes that I agree with the criticism of something, yet consider the overall impact on my enjoyment to be minor. This is one of those cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yeah, I don't know if it was this way for anyone else but I started out thinking the show was going for an "everyone is full of shit...except maybe for this guy Cohle" vibe. But then I pretty quickly came to realize Cohle is full of shit, too. It's just a different kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yeah, I don't see the need to balance cohle with some anti cohle. This is a guy who is a drug addict, drug seeker, completely unable to connect with others and is close to being a sociopath. And nothing he's done indicates that he's right either. We aren't seeing evil church goers or all Christianity is bad. They're just people. Good and bad. And some of the worst we have seen so far are cohle and Marty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delete this account pls Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yeah, I don't know if it was this way for anyone else but I started out thinking the show was going for an "everyone is full of shit...except maybe for this guy Cohle" vibe. But then I pretty quickly came to realize Cohle is full of shit, too. It's just a different kind. Yeah, definitely. He's a drug addict who starts a race riot. This dude is not the moral center of the show. And its clear to me by now Cohle really doesn't believe all his BS. If he did why would he even be a cop? He'd be with Ginger and the other "outlaws" for real. He certainly wouldnt take a moment during the raid to make sure the little kid was ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobmartell Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It's seems like as soon as people took Matthew serious as a actor he in turn did the same. His performances in TD and DBC are some of the best acting I've seen out of anyone in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I thought about this too. The line is blurry between Cohle and these guys, and it seems like an environment he could thrive in if he wanted to. Likes drugs. Doesn't like authority. Is indeed smarter than most people around him. Heh, he could himself become a cult leader. Definitely. I think Rust really is the bad man fighting the other bad men. I think the best evidence of his humanity if one wanted to make the case is his loss for his child coupled with him getting the kid into the bathtub when a shootout was coming. And losing a kid also seems like it might have been the proximate cause of his God-hate. Yeah, even though Rust wants the world to think he doesn't care, don't let him fool you, he still cares about some things. He seems to adhere to a sort of code at the very least. He's certainly not all bad or good. I hope we get even more info about his motivation because I, at least, don't feel like I necessarily have it figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think the show is definitely presenting us with two characters who have a particular way they self-identify themselves, and yet their actual functioning personality is quite different. Both Cohle and Hart describe themselves and their actions in a way that they continually betray with their actions. Hart's not a psycho. He's just a regular type dude with a big dick. He's a "good old boy". That's what he thinks about himself, how he fits in. But like every other person on the planet, he doesn't perfectly fit into this mold. In fact he's grossly out of whack with it. Same goes for Cohle. He builds up this hyper-pessimistic, Liggottian philosophy about how absolutely nothing matters, and yet it's just another identity he has created the way everyone does, just another "self" -- and it's one he regularly defies. He puts an incredible amount of value (not to mention personal stakes) on this Dora Lange case, going to almost absurd and possibly unnecessary extremes. These extremes also let him live out the drug-fueled, high-intensity lifestyle of an outlaw. And yet even then, his identity is compromised. He clears the stash-house and tries to protect a kid inside (none of the other gangsters were going to do that -- he acted like a cop, which I suspect is what Rust really identifies himself as; from his point-of-view he's nearly untouchable, and so he is privileged to dole out justice). To my knowledge he only uses his gun a single time, against the guy the Bikers have lead them to the stash-house, though I don't know why. The point is that, just as Hart said to him during the Revival Preaching, Rust seems to care an awful lot about an existence he claims is meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobmartell Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think the show is definitely presenting us with two characters who have a particular way they self-identify themselves, and yet their actual functioning personality is quite different. Both Cohle and Hart describe themselves and their actions in a way that they continually betray with their actions. Hart's not a psycho. He's just a regular type dude with a big dick. He's a "good old boy". That's what he thinks about himself, how he fits in. But like every other person on the planet, he doesn't perfectly fit into this mold. In fact he's grossly out of whack with it. Same goes for Cohle. He builds up this hyper-pessimistic, Liggottian philosophy about how absolutely nothing matters, and yet it's just another identity he has created the way everyone does, just another "self" -- and it's one he regularly defies. He puts an incredible amount of value (not to mention personal stakes) on this Dora Lange case, going to almost absurd and possibly unnecessary extremes. These extremes also let him live out the drug-fueled, high-intensity lifestyle of an outlaw. And yet even then, his identity is compromised. He clears the stash-house and tries to protect a kid inside (none of the other gangsters were going to do that -- he acted like a cop, which I suspect is what Rust really identifies himself as; from his point-of-view he's nearly untouchable, and so he is privileged to dole out justice). To my knowledge he only uses his gun a single time, against the guy the Bikers have lead them to the stash-house, though I don't know why. The point is that, just as Hart said to him during the Revival Preaching, Rust seems to care an awful lot about an existence he claims is meaningless.He even makes the comment about being a bad guy, being a police officer allows him to hurt other people with impunity. He helps the kid in the tub but busts on Marty for giving the young prostitute cash to do something else and calls him soft about the shit he cares about, other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 When Cohle told Maggie at the diner that children are the only reason for man and woman to be together. That is the most heartfelt and sincere statement he made the whole series to this point. It was also the least nihilist statement he made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 When Cohle told Maggie at the diner that children are the only reason for man and woman to be together. That is the most heartfelt and sincere statement he made the whole series to this point. It was also the least nihilist statement he made. Little moments like him watching Hart's daughters have really helped build up that element of his character in a subtle way. That whole 'how dare a parent have the audacity bring a child into this world' is the single biggest piece of self-loathing bullshit he has ever said. I'm starting to think the reason he and Hart have the relationship they do is because he used to be a lot like Hart before his daughter's death. Maybe he sees a bit of his old way of being there. Or maybe he wants a bit of what Hart has in his family, hence his hanging around Hart's house. Of course he'd never admit it. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Wow. Just watched it then. I had too much homework and studying to watch it earlier, but just... wow.For most of the episode something felt off to me. It didn't feel like the normal True Detective I'd grown used to and loved. It felt weird, like really fast-paced and like it's on hyperactive mode or something. I was feeling very lukewarm about this episode....Until the last ten minutes, more specifically the amazing single take, which is easily the greatest filmed scene I've ever seen in my life. I never thought anything would surpass Children of Men in terms of visceral and intense single-takes, but this did it. I was completely stunned at the final six minutes of this episode. Truly a masterpiece of directing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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