GeorgeIAF Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Bottom line is killing Shireen ends his line. Even show stannis felt that way early on. Book stannis sent Massey (I think) to buy his army to place Shireen on the iron throne. Wasn't confirmed that Shireen wouldn't be able to bear children ? I'm sure a i read something about it and her treatments to avoid dying from greyscale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseHarrison Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This is pretty bad damage control by D&D. They are trying to scapegoat GRRM for something they knew owuldn't blow over well. Disgraceful. In any regard it's clear it's all taken out of context. It's implied in ADWD that Selyse (who's oddly enough is against burning Shireen in the show) is the one contemplating burning Shireen, and with Stannis away it's the perfect opportunity for her to do so. While Shireen may burn there's no indication it will be by Stannis' hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Becasue he thinks he is Azor Azhai reborn and it is his destiny to save the world. He is willing to sacrifice everything thing to do that. The original Azor Azhai sacrificed his own wife. So, we take information from the books when it's convenient but then, we put it aside when we don't? Because Stannis' motivations are definitely more complex than "I'm Azor Azhai!". If that's all that matters, then why asking Massey to keep on and try to crown him? Because, even when he believes he's AA, he knows he could die and he knows the people will still need a King. Stannis hasn't put aside the fact he still believes he has obligations as a King, not only some legendary Hero. Also, he's "yeah, whatever, my sword is cool, meh". And I'm not even saying that AA in the show is... well... is in the show at all? :dunno: Also, Stannis is not AA. Stannis' motivations in the show are also political. He is still playing the game of thrones. You can't do much without an heir. that means that, after you're dead, your line is ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Didnot watch the episode yet. Just came to notify my change of Member Title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Danford Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 You don't have a character burn a sweet innocent girl (who also happens to be that characters daughter) alive, without knowing the audience is going to turn on that character. This seems like the same heavy handed treatment Ser Meryn is getting to "sweeten" his death. Just in case you don't remember how bad he was...look, he is a pedophile. Now look, just in case you might have hang ups about Brienne shoving her warm Valerian steel into Stannis' cold heart, remember....he burns kids. At least, this is what I expect to happen. Brienne swoops in, kills Stannis, then probably mistakes Theon saving Sansa as the boy who murdered Sansa's brothers trying to kidnap Sansa, and kills him too. Or Pod does. All of it contrived because of the removal on LS, and the placing of characters where they should not be. Butterfly effect in full tilt. The events in the show are in whirlwind and anything is likely to happen. Wun-Wun might stab Jon. Gilly might sit the Iron Throne. Dany might get greyscale, find LightBringer, give it to Jorah as the sword he was promised and command him to shove it into her heart before she becomes a monster. I just don't know. Books need to get here sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Mulder Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Is cherry picking to point out the absurd decisions of the shows? Yeah, right. If you don't mind them, that's fine. That doesn't mean they aren't there. I'm not the one in denial here. And it's not just Stannis. Doran is also sending his one and only heir to the place his sister and brother got killed. Why? No idea. If Doran dies, KL has the heir of Dorne in their hands. Look how that work for Sansa Stark. Idem for Mace Tyrell. Loras is their only heir and considering his position right now, they better start to look for a cousin to continue the family line. Stannis in the show, not the books, has been portrayed to not only care for his daughter but to actually protect them because it's HIS DUTY. That's why he told Selyse. I didn't feed you because I loved you, but because I had to. He also said, in the same scene, Shireen was his heir. So, why is Stannis even fighting if he doesn't have one heir? Is Stannis planning to live forever? Is he going to get Selyse pregnant with a child that will be totally and absolutely be born male before he parts to war? He wins Winterfell and... the Baratheons are over? Where is the logic in his actions? Somewhere over the rainbow, definitely because they are not around here. If you or anybody wants to say they like the show, fine. Say you love the show. But don't say the show is consistent. Because it's not. And some of us don't turn off our brains when watching tv. It has nothing to do with being a reader. It has to do with the fact the show contradicts itself. QFT Not a huge Stannis fan by any stretch but this just didn't make sense to me. I think Melisandre will do it without permission in the books. Stannis is all about duty, it is his duty to protect his family and heir. He's a middle aged guy, so he wins and rules for a decade and the Baratheon line dies out yay victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Smokin a Blunt Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This is pretty bad damage control by D&D. They are trying to scapegoat GRRM for something they knew owuldn't blow over well. Disgraceful. In any regard it's clear it's all taken out of context. It's implied in ADWD that Selyse (who's oddly enough is against burning Shireen in the show) is the one contemplating burning Shireen, and with Stannis away it's the perfect opportunity for her to do so. While Shireen may burn there's no indication it will be by Stannis' hands.Are you kidding me? Are you listening to yourself? Yeah I'm sure D&D went out of their way to bald faced lie about this scene on International television, because there's no way that could come back to bite them. This was GRRM's idea, pure and simple, he's been laying the groundwork for this scene since ACOK. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Hapless Newbie Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 In any regard it's clear it's all taken out of context. It's implied in ADWD that Selyse (who's oddly enough is against burning Shireen in the show) is the one contemplating burning Shireen, and with Stannis away it's the perfect opportunity for her to do so. While Shireen may burn there's no indication it will be by Stannis' hands. How did you get the sense Selyse wants to burn Shireen? I never got that impression. If anything, my impression has been that the idea of it, when offered up in WoW, will give us a chance to get a better look at her character. Even a religious fanatic can balk when asked to burn their only child. Is she truly so completely beholden to Mel that she'll go along with it without even flinching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Perhaps. Anti-hero? GRRM himself called him a villain and that he wanted that kind of villain. The guy sold drugs that ruined people's lives. Children's lives. he also said he wanted o make a bigger villain than walter white as there was not one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Blake Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 So, we take information from the books when it's convenient but then, we put it aside when we don't? Because Stannis' motivations are definitely more complex than "I'm Azor Azhai!". If that's all that matters, then why asking Massey to keep on and try to crown him? Because, even when he believes he's AA, he knows he could die and he knows the people will still need a King. Stannis hasn't put aside the fact he still believes he has obligations as a King, not only some legendary Hero. Also, he's "yeah, whatever, my sword is cool, meh". And I'm not even saying that AA in the show is... well... is in the show at all? :dunno: Also, Stannis is not AA. Stannis' motivations in the show are also political. He is still playing the game of thrones. You can't do much without an heir. that means that, after you're dead, your line is ended. They don't directly say AA, but he and Melisandre obviously believe he is. His conversation with Shireen in this episode were dripping with AA/last hero prophecy. The Massey bit isn't as straightforward as people are making it seem. Assuming Stannis faked his own death in the Pink Letter, he would want to make sure the reinforcements came whehter they thought he was dead or alive. At least that was my interpreation when I read it. I wouldn't really call Stannis's motivations as political. He want's the throne because he believes it is his by right. He thinks it is his destiny and he thinks that it is owed to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramla Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Wasn't confirmed that Shireen wouldn't be able to bear children ? I'm sure a i read something about it and her treatments to avoid dying from greyscale. Im not sure to be honest. That sounds like it may be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 PSA for PSA poster: Learn to read. What is said is not what not you interpreted it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 3. GRRM has stated that Stannis burns Shireen. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Hapless Newbie Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 QFT Not a huge Stannis fan by any stretch but this just didn't make sense to me. I think Melisandre will do it without permission in the books. Stannis is all about duty, it is his duty to protect his family and heir. He's a middle aged guy, so he wins and rules for a decade and the Baratheon line dies out yay victory. Right now, the stakes are the survival of everyone in Westeros. He at least buys into that enough that he was contemplating burning an innocent child alive to ward it off. Would Stannis sacrifice his family's legacy if it meant saving everyone in Westeros? I would say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Are there any sincere Stannis fans left after tonight? Assuming something comparable happens in TWOW? Which the GRRM information suggests? I mean some people enjoy liking unlikable people. Joff and Ramsay have fans so I guess there are still probably Stannis fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornCornSnow Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Are you kidding me? Are you listening to yourself? Yeah I'm sure D&D went out of their way to bald faced lie about this scene on International television, because there's no way that could come back to bite them. This was GRRM's idea, pure and simple, he's been laying the groundwork for this scene since ACOK. Get over it. No, GRRM hasn't been laying the groundwork for this scene since ACOK, since Shireen isn't with Stannis on his march towards Winterfell. She in is Castle Black. If Shireen burns in the books it will be VERY different from what we watched on HBO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Wrong.I love how misinformation spreads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Blake Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 PSA for PSA poster: Learn to read. What is said is not what not you interpreted it to be. You're right. Because everything should always be taken at face value and ulterior motives and deeper meanings are non existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaimetheConciliator Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The audio clip "When George first told us, about, this" is so horribly and horrendously and heinously isolated and taken out of one context and smashed stupidly through bad editing into another, I can't stop laughing. Ha hahaha ha ha ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornCornSnow Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I love how misinformation spreads. We're about a day away from having "witnesses" show up who claimed they heard GRRM explicitly tell D&D to have Stannis burn Shireen. I feel like i'm trapped in some nightmare version of the telephone game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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