TheCasualObserver Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I didn't watch the episode because I'm like 4 behind and hate it, but can someone just tell me what happened and if this means it's going to happen in the books? Shireen is all but confirmed to be burned in the books. Whether Stannis has anything to do with it is a different matter. And the circumstances surrounding that will be vastly different to this even if he is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I didn't watch the episode because I'm like 4 behind and hate it, but can someone just tell me what happened and if this means it's going to happen in the books? Shireen gets burned by Stannis' orders after Ramsay kinda messed up with their resources. Selyse tried to stop them but the girl was burn nevertheless. D&D are saying that George himself told them this would happen in the next book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomagoti Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 the part i find most incredulous was Selyse having a last minute change of heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Smokin a Blunt Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Building up to it doesn't make it good writing. If X predicts Y will jump off the empire state building at the beginning of a movie and bring it up multiple times during the movie, but Y has no intention of ever doing so, but suddenly 90 minutes into the movie he inexplicably climb the ESB and then jump off. It's still shitty writing. Just because the movie has been "building up" to that moment doesn't make it good writing. In the end, Y needs a good reason to do what he doesn't regardless of what X predicts. You seem to come from the D&D school of writing where foreshadowing=characterization+motivation. They aren't the same thing and one does not replace the other. no, I've just watched television before. where you have to use visual shorthand to get things across quickly that you get pages and pages and pages to do in a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apovsic Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This is getting better and better ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 LOL the show apologism is getting really ridiculous. If D&D are right about GRRM telling them about Shireen burning, it may be the first instance where they have not only butchered the story, but also spoiled something fro mTWOW. My guess is that in TWOW, Melisandre will burn Shireen to resurrect Jon. She may have finally realized that Stannis is not Azor Ahai and start seeing Jon as AA. And the readers will get something they really wanted to happen - Jon lives again - but at the expense of something as terrible as an innocent young girl's terrible death. It would be the kind of horrible sacrifice that makes sense "for the greater good", in terms of Jon's role in the fight against the Others, as in the story of Nissa Nissa. And imagine how terrible Jon would feel when he learned how he was resurrected. That would be tragic, and epic, and morally ambiguous. This is just shit. Yes that makes sense unlike the show. It's geographically impossible for Stannis to burn Shireen. Or even send a letter to inform them they should burn Shireen. Jeez, in the books, Westeros isn't populated by wormholes that can transport people to the speed of plot. Also, we're not mad at the burning of Shireen because Shireen is not a real person. She's a character whose existence serves a plot, the plot of her father and his actions. His characterization has been so far, constant in the books. Even his outbursts of hypocrisy are constant, for God's sake. :dunno: :bowdown: Yes, they've been building up Shireen's death, but the problem lies in the execution (pun). In the show, we get five seconds of tents randomly burning (at the same time!), then suddenly Shireen needs to die. From the promo of E10 it seems to have gotten them better weather and allowed them to march to Winterfell. There's no real tension (just screaming and SHOCK FACTOR), no big dilemma, nothing. If Shireen is sacrificed by Stannis in the books, I expect (giving GRRM's competency as a writer) that there'll be a much better explanation for it. Maybe the White Walkers are almost upon them or maybe they're surrounded and ambushed by Bolton forces. Then Stannis can choose to do nothing and Shireen (plus everyone else) will get killed. Or he can burn her and save the lives of everyone else. The fact that GRRM told D&D means nothing. He probably told them that Shireen will be sacrificed in the books (which could still mean that Melisandre does it) and D&D went for the cheap shock factor. As others have pointed out, logistically it's impossible for Stannis to sacrifice Shireen in a short time span so he'll either not be involved or the circumstances will be totally different from the show. We can only hope. the part i find most incredulous was Selyse having a last minute change of heart. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahid-pk Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 wow i think i am the only one older than 17 years here. I am very old reader but i only recently started to comment. And i loved the book readers prior to this episode. Because today they are behaving childishly , literally, i can not believe i am reading things here from grown up book readers that not even a 12 years old child will say when some one take their toy and give them back similar but in a different color. I read one guying saying that D&D lied to put the blame on GRRM really ??? Or were you joking ...some are saying it is impossible to happen in the books ??? well again really ?? last time i checked age of ice and fire was famous for being interesting, shocking and unpredictable , and who said it is impossible when their are almost 2000 pages of text left. I am shocked by this reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Szal Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yes. We're on denial. I mean, it's totally our fault. No one is saying Stannis is a nice chap. He's an asshole mostly of the time. But he's not stupid. Why would he burn his own heir, for instance? So, if he dies in Winterfell, the Baratheons are over? The Lannisters won? Idiotic, tbh. That's why he's making sure that, in case he dies, his men should keep going and supporting Shireen's claim. If anything, it confirms that he won't die at Winterfell, since that'll be the last of the Baratheons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 no, I've just watched television before. Yes and apparently that's all you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Maverick Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 >believing everything you hear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 If anything, it confirms that he won't die at Winterfell, since that'll be the last of the Baratheons. Dunno. I doubt he will have any chance to go and breed :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 wow i think i am the only one older than 17 years here. I am very old reader but i only recently started to comment. And i loved the book readers prior to this episode. Because today they are behaving childishly , literally, i can not believe i am reading things here from grown up book readers that not even a 12 years old child will say when some one take their toy and give them back similar but in a different color. I read one guying saying that D&D lied to put the blame on GRRM really ??? Or were you joking ...some are saying it is impossible to happen in the books ??? well again really ?? last time i checked age of ice and fire was famous for being interesting, shocking and unpredictable , and who said it is impossible when their are almost 2000 pages of text left. I am shocked by this reaction. I for one understand their reaciton. They're Stannis fans and felt betrayed by him, and simply because they still love him, don't want to accept he went mad, or was driven mad by Melisandre and her Azor Ahai story. They will accept in the end and take him for who he really is. The rage would have been the same from me if one of may favs did something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Smokin a Blunt Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yes and apparently that's all you do.Oh this is good news, you've now passed the denial stage and moving squarely into the anger stage. Let me know when you get to bargaining because I'd really like to see you beg god or GRRM (same person btw) to make this untrue. That will be worth a good chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artihcus022 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 wow i think i am the only one older than 17 years here. Yes "you think" you are, but that doesn't mean we have any reason to believe a word of what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 wow i think i am the only one older than 17 years here. I am very old reader but i only recently started to comment. And i loved the book readers prior to this episode. Because today they are behaving childishly , literally, i can not believe i am reading things here from grown up book readers that not even a 12 years old child will say when some one take their toy and give them back similar but in a different color. I read one guying saying that D&D lied to put the blame on GRRM really ??? Or were you joking ...some are saying it is impossible to happen in the books ??? well again really ?? last time i checked age of ice and fire was famous for being interesting, shocking and unpredictable , and who said it is impossible when their are almost 2000 pages of text left. I am shocked by this reaction. Oh, I think most people expect Shireen to burn in the books. But I for one, highly doubt it'll happen for the sake of surviving the Boltons and that Stannis and Davos are gonna be able to rejoin with Melisandre, Selyse and Shireen in time to have a part in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 He was a prick in the books - you people are blind. "Ned Stark was no friend to me..." Yeah the guy died for your cause. Yeah, and Stannis has no way of knowing that. No one knows that Ned had chosen to support Stannis because Sansa told Cersei about them leaving so the letter never got out of King's Landing. It never ceases to amaze me at how poor people's reading comprehension is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Blake Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Even Elio defended the scene to some extent and he is in no way, shape or form a show apologist.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Smokin a Blunt Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yeah, and Stannis has no way of knowing that. No one knows that Ned had chosen to support Stannis because Sansa told Cersei about them leaving so the letter never got out of King's Landing. It never ceases to amaze me at how poor people's reading comprehension is.That's not true, Stannis even mentions Ned supporting his claim at the parlay with Renly before the shadowbaby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artihcus022 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Even Elio defended the scene to some extent and he is in no way, shape or form a show apologist.. My real issue is how he feels about the show spoiling the books on behind-the-scenes videos. My only concern with the burning is not so much the scene or the context just the fact that the minute it ends we cut to Dany riding Drogon, presented as an un-ironic uplifting kick-ass moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeethGrinder Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's hilarious to see apologists defending this. Even if you despise Stannis, you just saw a character with a history of being resolute to the point of madness, burn his daughter and only heir alive because it was snowing.That just happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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