MisterOJ Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 To be fair, he said that there is no racism when it comes to appointing managers in England's top 4 leagues. The "Rooney Rule" in question is a load of crap anyway. How would that work, exactly? For example, Klopp decides to take up a team in the Premiership midway through the season. Are there any minority candidates that can be serious contenders for the job? The Rooney Rule just means you have to bring in a minority candidate and interview them for the job when you have an opening. Nothing more, nothing less. It's been widely viewed as a good thing. Even if the owner has a new coach already picked out, he still has to interview a minority candidate, which is good for a couple reasons. One, it puts a minority candidate face-to-face with ownership in an interview situation. Even if he has no chance at getting the job in question, if he makes a good impression, maybe the owner remembers him the next time an opening comes up and he gets the job then. It also gives minority coaches experience when it comes to interviewing for these types of jobs, which is also a good thing. For the most part, the Rooney Rule has been credited with getting a lot more minority coaches hired in the NFL since it was instituted in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Fuck Messi, check out Den Haag's [url=http://streamable.com/axco]goalie[/url] in the last minute of injury time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 This game looked to be turning into a rout but Sevilla have come back nicely. 4-3 atm. Should be a good last 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 The Rooney Rule just means you have to bring in a minority candidate and interview them for the job when you have an opening. Nothing more, nothing less. It's been widely viewed as a good thing. Even if the owner has a new coach already picked out, he still has to interview a minority candidate, which is good for a couple reasons. One, it puts a minority candidate face-to-face with ownership in an interview situation. Even if he has no chance at getting the job in question, if he makes a good impression, maybe the owner remembers him the next time an opening comes up and he gets the job then. It also gives minority coaches experience when it comes to interviewing for these types of jobs, which is also a good thing. For the most part, the Rooney Rule has been credited with getting a lot more minority coaches hired in the NFL since it was instituted in 2003. To me it seems that it's just going through the motions. You get a bunch of "minority candidates" to cover your ass and hire the guy you had in mind in the first place, wasting both your and candidates' time in the process. And as for the NFL, I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination, but I guess it's safe to say that big numbers of minority players retiring and switching to coaching has something to do with increase in numbers of minority coaches. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 And as for the NFL, I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination, but I guess it's safe to say that big numbers of minority players retiring and switching to coaching has something to do with increase in numbers of minority coaches. ;) But that's the case in football too and it hasn't happened to the same extent. The fact is that while I don't think actual racism in this particular instance is as widespread as some make out, there are several notable faces who haven't even bothered to go into coaching because they think they'd get short shrift, and thus the perception of racism is almost as damaging as the actual thing. The introduction of a Rooney Rule would at least help with that perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorshach Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 But that's the case in football too and it hasn't happened to the same extent. The fact is that while I don't think actual racism in this particular instance is as widespread as some make out, there are several notable faces who haven't even bothered to go into coaching because they think they'd get short shrift, and thus the perception of racism is almost as damaging as the actual thing. The introduction of a Rooney Rule would at least help with that perception. Also, there is Sol Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 But he is Sol Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 To me it seems that it's just going through the motions. You get a bunch of "minority candidates" to cover your ass and hire the guy you had in mind in the first place, wasting both your and candidates' time in the process. And as for the NFL, I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination, but I guess it's safe to say that big numbers of minority players retiring and switching to coaching has something to do with increase in numbers of minority coaches. ;) Black players have been the majority of NFL players since the 1960s or so. From then, until the Rooney Rule was started in 2003, there was a grand total of five black head coaches. In the 12 or so years since the Rooney Rule went into effect, there has been 14 black head coaches hired. That's not a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 To me it seems that it's just going through the motions. You get a bunch of "minority candidates" to cover your ass and hire the guy you had in mind in the first place, wasting both your and candidates' time in the process. And as for the NFL, I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination, but I guess it's safe to say that big numbers of minority players retiring and switching to coaching has something to do with increase in numbers of minority coaches. ;) I've speculated about this in one of the NFL threads, but I hypothesized that coaching in the NFL might be more meritocratic (though still full of nepotism) than any other professional sport. While you can dispute that, what's indisputable is that there are only four or five head coaches, out of thirty two, in the NFL who played in the NFL, and none were stars. So it's safe to say that the rise of black head coaches is unrelated to the number of retired black NFLers. I don't think it's the Rooney Rule either, but rather the mindset that led to the league adopting the Rooney Rule, also led to owners being less racist (or more conscious of diversity optics) and more willing to take black candidates seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 polish, how good is Grzegorz Krychowiak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercenaryChef Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Got my list of rules from nycfc on visiting the baseball stadium they play in. Apparently I am not allowed to come in costume, carry weapons, have a pet or drone, oh and I cannot curse. Great christ shit fuck dick cunt asshole bitch! This is forbid in your stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. X Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Forget it man, it's the Yankees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercenaryChef Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Forget it man, it's the Yankees. Unholy cunts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Black players have been the majority of NFL players since the 1960s or so. From then, until the Rooney Rule was started in 2003, there was a grand total of five black head coaches. In the 12 or so years since the Rooney Rule went into effect, there has been 14 black head coaches hired. That's not a coincidence. As I said, I'm not an expert in NFL even by a long shot. I've speculated about this in one of the NFL threads, but I hypothesized that coaching in the NFL might be more meritocratic (though still full of nepotism) than any other professional sport. While you can dispute that, what's indisputable is that there are only four or five head coaches, out of thirty two, in the NFL who played in the NFL, and none were stars. So it's safe to say that the rise of black head coaches is unrelated to the number of retired black NFLers. I don't think it's the Rooney Rule either, but rather the mindset that led to the league adopting the Rooney Rule, also led to owners being less racist (or more conscious of diversity optics) and more willing to take black candidates seriously. I agree with you. It's not the rule, it's that the times have changed. Racism is now at least talked about out in the open, and confronted on a regular basis. It's still present and will be for some time, and there are setbacks in the fight against it but at least things are heading in the right direction. That being said, I still don't see the point in interviewing candidates who have no realistic shot at getting a job, minorities or not. I mean, if Mourinho was sacked tomorrow, there would be only a handful of candidates in the world for such a high-profile job. Everyone else wouldn't be seriously considered, regardless of their ethnicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDonegal Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 That being said, I still don't see the point in interviewing candidates who have no realistic shot at getting a job, minorities or not. I mean, if Mourinho was sacked tomorrow, there would be only a handful of candidates in the world for such a high-profile job. Everyone else wouldn't be seriously considered, regardless of their ethnicity. I kind of get why you would interview. It's a circular argument to say that ethnicities wouldn't get Mourinho's job tomorrow and therefore they shouldn't be interviewed (since your implication is that this applies to all top jobs in football). Until they are put in the positions and given the experience needed, that might always be the case. It takes a combination of people breaking the glass ceiling and being given a foot up to do so. A failed interview at Chelsea today could be a successful one at Crystal Palace later. But I think the Rooney rule was a more important introduction in NFL than it would be in football. I read that something like 68% of NFL players are African-American, which embarrasses the number of African-American coaches there are. Not saying it's yet balanced in football, but it's certainly not as unbalanced as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hey, it's not as if major clubs sometimes make out of left field appointments, right? Oh, wait, those are always white guys. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I kind of get why you would interview. It's a circular argument to say that ethnicities wouldn't get Mourinho's job tomorrow and therefore they shouldn't be interviewed (since your implication is that this applies to all top jobs in football). Until they are put in the positions and given the experience needed, that might always be the case. It takes a combination of people breaking the glass ceiling and being given a foot up to do so. A failed interview at Chelsea today could be a successful one at Crystal Palace later. But I think the Rooney rule was a more important introduction in NFL than it would be in football. I read that something like 68% of NFL players are African-American, which embarrasses the number of African-American coaches there are. Not saying it's yet balanced in football, but it's certainly not as unbalanced as that. Not really... Failed interview at Chelsea would be a failed interview at Chelsea. Successful interview at Crystal Palace would be a completely unrelated thing. I don't see Board of Directors going through candidate's CV and say: "Oh, I see you were interviewed for Chelsea position and didn't get it. That's nice to see." If there's an available black manager good enough for Crystal Palace, I'm certain he'll be considered anyway.* And I'm not sure many managers would appreciate being given the token minority candidate role. I know that if I someone wanted to interview me for a position I'm not qualified for, I'd decline. And I'd resent it if they called me only to get their quota of white male candidates in their early 30s. EDIT: *And I'm sure that when Chelsea needs a new manager, all suitable candidates would be considered, regardless of their ethnicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Not really... Failed interview at Chelsea would be a failed interview at Chelsea. Successful interview at Crystal Palace would be a completely unrelated thing. I don't see Board of Directors going through candidate's CV and say: "Oh, I see you were interviewed for Chelsea position and didn't get it. That's nice to see." If there's an available black manager good enough for Crystal Palace, I'm certain he'll be considered anyway.* And I'm not sure many managers would appreciate being given the token minority candidate role. I know that if I someone wanted to interview me for a position I'm not qualified for, I'd decline. And I'd resent it if they called me only to get their quota of white male candidates in their early 30s. EDIT: *And I'm sure that when Chelsea needs a new manager, all suitable candidates would be considered, regardless of their ethnicity.Actually, away from football, part of the reason men's pay outstrips women's is that men do go for jobs for which they're half qualified and get them due to recruiters being impressed the men stuck their necks out, whereas women apply for jobs for which they are qualified, so become a few years behind. Applying is beneficial for both sides in this instance. The talent is thought about and is placed where it can be noticed. Often white boards don't deliberately hire white, they jut don't think to hire black - unconscious bias. The application rule removes this by making them think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Not for a moment am I trying to deny the discrimination (racial, sexual, national etc.) in our world, I just don't think that getting a bunch of token candidates, minority or not, will make the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Not for a moment am I trying to deny the discrimination (racial, sexual, national etc.) in our world, I just don't think that getting a bunch of token candidates, minority or not, will make the difference. We get that: unfortunately, you also appear to be ignoring the evidence that it can and does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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