Rogue One Spoilers Discussion: I Am With You, Jyn Erso

[DaveSumm]

1 minute ago, All-for-Joffrey said:

Yeah, this really bothered me -- not during the actual cameo but thinking about it afterwards since they blow up Jedha and everyone in the city dies. So they must have been on their way to leave the city at the very last minute, which seems like way too much of a coincidence. 

I totally forgot that......it's bad enough that they were in Jedha and then quickly (within days I guess?) made it to Tatooine so they could repeat the exact same lines to some other super relevant person, but yea.....the city got blown up.

Plus it ruins my head canon where he was actually a really nice guy going for the big promotion at his place of work ala Robot Chicken.

[Corvinus85]

I'm going to go see it again. Maybe twice more. But what I want the most is for the digital version to just be released now, so I can watch the last third of the movie over and over again.

[Fiddler]

11 minutes ago, Denvek said:

Great film, including some good cameos, but also a pretty egregious one from "My friend doesn't like you" and "I don't like you either"

Ain't gonna lie, I think that scene got the biggest chuckle out of me, lol.

 

I enjoyed the crap out of this movie.  I liked the "dark gritty" view of the universe.  I also liked the portrayal of the rebel council.  One thing I thought of as I was driving home, this was the first Star Wars movie I saw that didn't have a lightsaber battle.  Hell, they only had the quick scene with Vader's saber.  That is something I never thought I would say after a Star Wars movie (honestly thought Blind Guy was going to pop a saber out of his staff at the end).

Gotta say that Vader's two scenes were great (could tell the age of Jones' voice though) and especially loved the almost horror feel of him slaughtering his way through the soldiers in the hall.  That was a terrifying image of Vader that I think would have made Luke wet himself, lol.

[Corvinus85]

1 minute ago, DaveSumm said:

I totally forgot that......it's bad enough that they were in Jedha and then quickly (within days I guess?) made it to Tatooine so they could repeat the exact same lines to some other super relevant person, but yea.....the city got blown up.

Plus it ruins my head canon where he was actually a really nice guy going for the big promotion at his place of work ala Robot Chicken.

Still applicable. You could say that they were on a business trip to Jedha, and his asshole friend nearly got him killed there.

[ab aeterno]

17 minutes ago, felice said:

We don't see most of what the Empire does the rest of the time, and everything we do see suggests that the Death Star is business as usual, just on a bigger scale. There's no way you can reasonably claim the Sith aren't evil; Vader is physically present and capable of stopping Tarkin and getting away with it in a way none of the junior officers could, but he doesn't have a problem with it, and also tortures his daughter. And the Death Star was built to destroy planets; Tarkin was doing what the Emperor expected/wanted, and the Emperor is most certainly guilty.

I'm not saying the Emperor isn't responsible or in charge, I'm just saying that from what we're shown, nothing the Empire does outside of Alderaan and probably Kashyyyk is particularly outside the pale. The Death Star is a weapon of mass destruction, no doubt about it, but that doesn't make anyone who builds a WMD evil. The Sith do bad things, but I have a pretty high bar for truly evil, and again, based on what we actually see, Vader's the only one who really crosses that line. Massacring the Jedi Temple, allowing Tarkin to destroy Alderaan, etc. What does Palpatine actually do, or Maul, or Dooku? He orchestrates a war, and a coup. Sure, that's bad, but that's a very low bar for evil. 

17 minutes ago, felice said:

How about something like "Hah! You've lost, Vader; this was a decoy, the plans are safely on the other side of the galaxy by now. Long live the Rebell-urk *drops dead*"? Before Rogue One, I think it was safe to assume Star Destroyers had no authority to stop consular ships on diplomatic missions; the Star Destroyer fired first and the blockade runner was just defending itself.

Safe to assume how? The Empire declared martial law. if you get pulled over by a Star Destroyer (Lord Vader's SD, FWIW) and you comply, sure, then you might be excused by claiming to be a consular ship. If you refuse and fire back at them? Good luck, diplomatic immunity or Parliamentary privilege doesn't extend to shooting the police. Even if the Star Destroyer did fire first, they didn't surrender, which is what a civilian ship would do. 

And of course, the main point is, they aren't lying. Leia is a Senator, so it arguably is a consular ship anyway.

ETA: I should add, the original plan was also to expose the Death Star before the Senate, which unfortunately got disbanded shortly after this battle.

17 minutes ago, felice said:

Also, having a deliberately built-in weakness known in advance by the Rebels doesn't jibe very well with "I only hope that when the data is analyzed, a weakness can be found." A ray-shielded exhaust port too small for targeting computers to hit located at the end of a trench that nobody could possibly know about without studying the top-secret full technical readouts is hardly a glaring flaw that needed explaining; it's not like "let's not bother with a port for the exhaust, we can just let it build up inside" would have been a better design option. And why is Red Two surprised at the size of the Death Star if the rebel fleet has been in its vicinity before? Did he call in sick and miss the battle over Scarif?

No-one really knows about the weakness. They only have Jyn's word, and no proof. So it's absolutely fair to hope that this rumoured weakness actually exists. Remember, only Jyn saw the holo, and Leia wasn't even on Yavin.

Also, it's not the exhaust port that is the flaw, it's the reactor that Galen sabotaged, so that if you hit the exhaust port it would destroy the whole station. The exhaust port wouldn't make sense if it was designed to leave the reactor vulnerable to damage, and it's not. It's designed to be inert, but Galen made it into a weakness.

Can't really defend the Red 2 thing though. 

[Rhom]

When thinking about Cassian and his crew talking about the terrible things they've done, I've been thinking of the famous Clerks dialogue over the destruction of the second Death Star.   

[Corvinus85]

Just now, Rhom said:

When thinking about Cassian and his crew talking about the terrible things they've done, I've been thinking of the famous Clerks dialogue over the destruction of the second Death Star.   

And then you watch the Empire murder its own engineers, so then you realize those poor contractors were probably doomed either way.

[RhaenysBee]

I went through three phases watching the movie. 1. Are you serious, couldn't they come up with something remotely original just this once? 2. Okay, there's actually cool stuff in here, so let's get over the repetitive core plot, that's not the point of Star Wars. 3. Omfg I love this shit so much!!!! 

There were a number of things I disliked, but overall the movie bought me. It was Star Wars to the core. And whoever is making these new Star Wars movies is good at his job. They feel like part of the world, and not like bad fanfiction (coughcursedchildcough).

Onto the problems I had. 

Must we truly replay the orphaned child from a desert planet finding a cause, having a father figure sacrifice himself for them and having the actual parent die in their arms just so the sense of the cause will grow even stronger in them? Really? Really? 

Oh well, all right. Look at this mother abandoning her small child to go against family plans and take on a spaceship of stormtroopers with a single gun to save her husband from... they weren't actually there to kill him. 

Now wait a moment. This lady wakes up with black eyeliner in a prison cell? The Empire has labor camps? Get over yourself. We have beaten the 20th century history horse enough in EpVII, it's dead. Been so for decades. 

So... it's quite curious how a young female child is taken in by a big physically repulsive desert gangsta only to be raised into a badass idenpendent young woman with amazing mechanics and martial arts skills and a strong moral compass in 2010s Star Wars. I guess they are trying to make up for the unPCness of slave Leia with this fairy tale...? I mean sure. Real world, go and follow the example. 

Okay so what's the climate of this desert planet that Diego Luna is actually wearing a parka? 

I didn't like Jyn. Because she is a Mary Sue? Not really. I liked Rey. (Though I think she was much less of a Mary Sue than Jyn). I didn't dislike Luke, and heck, I liked Anakin even if he was a little bitch most of the time. Jyn was just distant and/or annoying. 

A tentacle monster? Really? 

And there was this piece of logic and waste of screentime. "So you were ordered to kill my dad, had all the chance to do it but chose not to?! You fucking pig, don't talk to me, you make me sick." 

Reenacting old Star Wars scenes check list: alliance council - check. Forest battle - check. Desert planet - check. Deactivating a shield - check. Father figure heroic death - check. Actual parent reunion and death - check. Hanging from something with one hand - check. Trying and failing to Blend in - check. Infiltrating empire base with a stolen empire ship - check. Impersonating storm troopers - check. Admiral Ackbar directing a battle - check. I suppose I just saw too much of reenacting original scenes lately (Gilmore Girls Seasons was 60% repetition too). 

Final face-off: the other good guy will have climbed up will shoot Badguy from behind. The other good guy climbed up and shot the bad guy from behind. Whatatwist! I never saw that coming. 

I hope that when I meet my maker in an atomic explosion my eyeliner will be on fleek as well. 

Stuff I particularly loved: 

you guys complain about Tarkin. I thought that was awesome. I mean if I have to choose between what to use CGI for in film, making the Great Wall (god I want to forget that trailer) and X-Men apocalypse and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 OR Tarkin's head, I'll pick Tarkin's head any Day. 

I loved the cameo of that rude pub dude and his sidekick. 

Darth Vader, my god. The creepy bath scene and the fight to break into Leia's ship were to die for. 

I loved the tropical scenery of the... that last planet with the beach and the palm trees. 

In spite of how emotionally manipulative these things are, I really loved when Jyn ran out to get that screaming child out of the cross fire. 

I liked the X wing fighter scenes, the epic star destroyer collision (even though I didn't like how a tiny ship made that happen by pushing one into the other, that was as unreal as The Great Wall - god that trailer will give me nightmares). 

And I really like how (intentionally or unintentially) the scenery in jedha mirrored the ancient sights of Syria that have been under destruction. I also loved that this movie somehow more than any other Star Wars movie highlighted the casualty of war. I loved the slow motion shots of the explosions, I loved that they killed everybody. I also hated losing those characters, but killing them off was the right thing to do for the right message and the absolutely perfect link to New Hope. 

 

 

 

[Week]

2 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

So... it's quite curious how a young female child is taken in by a big physically repulsive desert gangsta only to be raised into a badass idenpendent young woman with amazing mechanics and martial arts skills and a strong moral compass in 2010s Star Wars. I guess they are trying to make up for the unPCness of slave Leia with this fairy tale...? I mean sure. Real world, go and follow the example. 

Misunderstood the context - I had read something eerily similar written about Rogue One which is quite different and more problematic.

 

Leaving for self-shame - "big physically repulsive desert gangsta" - so much wrong here. I don't have enough patience or tolerance to read through the rest.

[Werthead]

Quote

Here's what surprised me though, we went to the same theater in Louisville that we went to for a late night showing of TFA last year.  The atmosphere couldn't have been more different. There were not groups of people standing around waiting to get in.  There wasn't an air of jubilation.  I saw a couple guys in Chewbacca onesies, but not groups of people dressed up like last year.  The crowd just didn't have the same energy.  It was a bit of a bummer overall TBH.

I had a conversation with my housemate about this. He's a big Star Wars fan, quite liked The Force Awakens, was massively hyped up for it last year but this year has really been in a take it or leave it mood for Rogue One. He said it's partially because the film isn't a "main one" so "doesn't count as much" and he thought it'd be good, but was going to miss the lightsabres.

Going into it more, I think there was an element of Star Wars not being like other franchises. We've had 15 James Bond movies since 1977, 6 Middle-earth films and 9 Harry Potter universe movies (both in 15 years), 14 Marvel movies in 8 years etc. But only 7 Star Wars movies in 40 years. It's a bit more special and a bit more of an event, sure, even it when it blows. But there is a thought that Star Wars used to be a "big event" and a lot of people saw it as such, people who count themselves as fans (sometimes big fans) but never played the video games or watched the animated series or read any of the books. By turning Star Wars into an annual franchise, there is a feeling that it's going to cheapen what was a franchise which was more of an occasional event.

Not sure how much of that I buy myself though, given that all three prequel movies were crap and that the Star Wars universe was very ripe for further exploration by more talented creators, writers and directors than just Lucas. But I must admit that my excitement for Rogue One was really not shared by many of my friends, even those who'd been chomping at the bit for Ep 7.

[Werthead]

Further regarding the Tarkin CGI controversy, I think they should have just used Guy Henry. He provided the physical performance (before the CG additions) and he's a pretty good actor (he was Cassius in HBO's Rome) and he's got the villainous voice down pat. Some make-up and away you go. If it was good enough for General "Barristan Selmy" Dodonna, should have been good for Tarkin.

An alternative choice I've seen thrown around is Charles Dance. He doesn't really look or sound like Cushing, but he has the presence, authority and body language down pat. Although I think I'd rather see him doing an original role.

[RhaenysBee]

36 minutes ago, Week said:

"big physically repulsive desert gangsta" - so much wrong here. I don't have enough patience or tolerance to read through the rest.

Yeah, Unkar Plutt is a rather petite and very attractive gentleman who runs a legal business. My bad, man, my bad.  

[Bonesy]

7 hours ago, Rhom said:

I enjoyed the movie.  I'm okay with the darker tone of the movie for the side stories.  I liked that the rebels were acknowledged to have done some bad things to achieve their ends.  It was a bit edgier than I ever thought Disney would go.   

Otherwise, much of my thoughts on the film itself are expressed by other posters.

Here's what surprised me though, we went to the same theater in Louisville that we went to for a late night showing of TFA last year.  The atmosphere couldn't have been more different. There were not groups of people standing around waiting to get in.  There wasn't an air of jubilation.  I saw a couple guys in Chewbacca onesies, but not groups of people dressed up like last year.  The crowd just didn't have the same energy.  It was a bit of a bummer overall TBH.

As I say though, the movie delivered everything I wanted as an adult Star Wars fan.  I don't know that I want to take my son next week like I did with TFA though.

I saw a matinee at Baxter today. The 2:15 was sold out so I waited around for the unadvertised 3:15 (3D). Still packed.

No one in costume that I noticed.

[Derfel Cadarn]

I agree it feels weird that Leia and the Tantive iV were on the flagship. Given how outnumbered the rebels were, why keep a perfectly good ship out of the battle?

 

Expected the characters to die, but might have been cool if Bail Organa rescued a couple and took them back to Alderaan for a well-earned rest...

[Ramsay B.]

14 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Yeah, Unkar Plutt is a rather petite and very attractive gentleman who runs a legal business. My bad, man, my bad.  

I think this is a rare case where a hard "r" would've been preferred to against the soft "a" that was used. 

[RhaenysBee]

8 minutes ago, Ramsay B. said:

I think this is a rare case where a hard "r" would've been preferred to against the soft "a" that was used. 

I have come to realize that whatever letter I choose to type, someone will be offended anyway. Beloved interwebs.

[Relic]

1 minute ago, RhaenysB said:

I have come to realize that whatever letter I choose to type, someone will be offended anyway. Beloved interwebs.

 

[dbunting]

Just got back from watching it and I loved it. I have heard people say it started slow but I didnt see it that way. I also didnt mind the cgi general, i actually kind of liked it. My only exposure to Star Wars is from the movies, haven't read books or watched animated series. I also loved the ending. 

[RhaenysBee]

 

 

All right... So there was one thing I couldn't decide if I liked or not. The new droid. He was supposed to be funny, but not really funny... he wasn't particularly cute or annoying... he was trying really hard to be the funny new droid who combines R2's brains and 3PO's talking and Chewie's strength. A 3in1 super sidekick. 

Oh the R2 and 3PO cameo was too much and it felt out of context. They didn't have anything to do with the main cast or plot here. I would have been satisfied with only the knowledge that they are somewhere there in the background with Captain Antilles. They could have been included in a big shot of a hustling crowd hurrying after Captain Antilles. But this cameo... it was really out of context. Oh well. 

[ab aeterno]

46 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

I agree it feels weird that Leia and the Tantive iV were on the flagship. Given how outnumbered the rebels were, why keep a perfectly good ship out of the battle?

Wouldn't have been any point. As Star Wars Rebels has established, CR90s are made of paper mache and go down in 1 or 2 hits.