Illyrio & Varys: untruths and exaggerations

[rotting sea cow]

Quote

“How is it that the Spider became so dear to you?”
“We were young together, two green boys in Pentos.”
“Varys came from Myr.”
“So he did. I met him not long after he arrived, one step ahead of the slavers. By day he slept in the sewers, by night he prowled the rooftops like a cat. I was near as poor, a bravo in soiled silks, living by my blade. Perhaps you chanced to glimpse the statue by my pool? Pytho Malanon carved that when I was six-and-ten

- Tyrion II, ADWD

How is it Illyrio? You were a very poor young selling your sword to eat but nonetheless you were able to commission a fine artwork from an (apparently) famous artist?

Quote

Beneath his window six cherry trees stood sentinel around a marble pool, their slender branches bare and brown. A naked boy stood on the water, poised to duel with a bravo’s blade in hand. He was lithe and handsome, no older than sixteen, with straight blond hair that brushed his shoulders. So lifelike did he seem that it took the dwarf a long moment to realize he was made of painted marble, though his sword shimmered like true steel

- Tyrion I, ADWD

 

 

 

[Davjos]

Or he later had a statue made of his humble beginnings and harsh upbringing, perhaps as a constant motivator to take the power he feels he deserves. 

 

Although I don't believe both Varys' and Illyrio's backstorys, there is probably some truth in their stories. Some things might have been true, probably around 5% or so, but I don't buy their 'we came from nothing'-shtick. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Or...someone else commissioned the statue, and Illyrio later bought it from them. 

[Aegon VII]

5 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

- Tyrion II, ADWD

How is it Illyrio? You were a very poor young selling your sword to eat but nonetheless you were able to commission a fine artwork from an (apparently) famous artist?

- Tyrion I, ADWD

 

 

 

Damn great observation. Why would someone so poor have a statue carved of them at sixteen? The only way that makes sense is if someone else commissioned it. But why would someone commission a statue of a shitty bravo. I assume he's shitty because talent = paycheck and he says he poor. So if the commissioner didn't admire him for his sword skills what did he admire him for? The only thing that makes sense to me is either Illyrio is lying or he was sleeping with rich men to make money back then and one of his sugar daddy's had it made. My bet is on the lie/ exaggeration 

[KingMance]

Nice, never caught that. Do we get a description of his hair at his current age? I forget if he's bald or if it's ever brought up. The statue description is pretty spot on for (F)aegon too, so is it possible it's more recently made? 

[Lord Wraith]

4 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Or...someone else commissioned the statue, and Illyrio later bought it from them. 

It makes me lol to think of Illyrio is a male model. Illyrio Zoolander.

[Foot_Of_The_King]

8 hours ago, Ethelarion said:

Or he later had a statue made of his humble beginnings and harsh upbringing, 

Maybe he made it after he was rich to show people, "I was a sexy badass when I was young."

[bent branch]

Shortly after Illyrio and Varys met they set up their criminal enterprise. Illyrio was raking in good money when he was still quite young so he probably paid for it himself. Almost everything we learn about Illyrio and Varys' backstories is going to turn out to be true. There is no reason for them to lie about it. The only thing we will learn in the future is the bits of their backstories that they didn't tell. We won't find out anything told so far is a lie.

[Lord Varys]

The idea there is that the young Illyrio Mopatis was beautiful enough to be used as a model for this statue. He could even have been in the service of this Pytho Malanon chap at that age, for a time. A wealthy and famous sculptor could have been in need of a competent bravo to serve as his bodyguard or enforcer.

Later on Illyrio would have bought the statue from the man. Or he could have inherited it from Pytho after the man died.

[LynnS]

I wonder if this is actually a statue of young Griff given Illyrio's sentimentality when Tyrion is handed off to Duckfield.  The chest of boy's clothing could imply that fAegon lived at Illyrion's manse for a while.  The six cherry trees standing sentinel around the statue corresponding to his six guardians: Connington, Haldon Halfmaester, Septa Lemore, Duckfield, Ysilla and Yandry.  

If this is Illyrio's keepsake of fAegon; he commissioned the statue himself and tells people its a statue of himself, rather than fAegon.

The symbolism of the cherry tree is interesting;

Quote

The Sakurakai or Cherry Blossom Society was the name chosen by young officers within the Imperial Japanese Army in September 1930 for their secret society established with the goal of reorganizing the state along totalitarian militaristic lines, via a military coup d'état if necessary.^[12]

Cherry blossoms are a prevalent symbol in Irezumi, the traditional art of Japanese tattoos. In tattoo art, cherry blossoms are often combined with other classic Japanese symbols like koi fish, dragons or tigers.^[20]

 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion I

 

Beneath his window six cherry trees stood sentinel around a marble pool, their slender branches bare and brown. A naked boy stood on the water, poised to duel with a bravo's blade in hand. He was lithe and handsome, no older than sixteen, with straight blond hair that brushed his shoulders. So lifelike did he seem that it took the dwarf a long moment to realize he was made of painted marble, though his sword shimmered like true steel.

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion I

As he bathed, the girl washed his feet, scrubbed his back, and brushed his hair. Afterward she rubbed sweet-smelling ointment into his calves to ease the aches, and dressed him once again in boy's clothing, a musty pair of burgundy breeches and a blue velvet doublet lined with cloth-of-gold. "Will my lord want me after he has eaten?" she asked as she was lacing up his boots.

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion III

Beyond the tangled willows the road ended abruptly and they turned north for a short ways and rode beside the water, until the brush gave way and they found themselves beside an old stone quay, half-submerged and surrounded by tall brown weeds. "Duck!" came a shout. "Haldon!" Tyrion craned his head to one side, and saw a boy standing on the roof of a low wooden building, waving a wide-brimmed straw hat. He was a lithe and well-made youth, with a lanky build and a shock of dark blue hair. The dwarf put his age at fifteen, sixteen, or near enough to make no matter.

 

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

10 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

It makes me lol to think of Illyrio is a male model. Illyrio Zoolander.

What's funny about that? Makes perfect sense to me

2 hours ago, bent branch said:

Almost everything we learn about Illyrio and Varys' backstories is going to turn out to be true. There is no reason for them to lie about it (that we know of). The only thing we will learn in the future is the bits of their backstories that they didn't tell. We won't find out anything told so far is a lie.

(FIFY.)

Yeah, maybe, but maybe not. For me, I don't know why we'd ever trust anything that comes out of their mouths. But then again, this is fiction, and having them flat-out lie might be construed by some as the author being unfair.

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

The symbolism of the cherry tree is interesting...

Aren't cherry trees an American symbol? I think maybe IIRC George Washington fucked a cherry tree - 9 months later America was born

[Lollygag]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

I wonder if this is actually a statue of young Griff given Illyrio's sentimentality when Tyrion is handed off to Duckfield.  The chest of boy's clothing could imply that fAegon lived at Illyrion's manse for a while.  The six cherry trees standing sentinel around the statue corresponding to his six guardians: Connington, Haldon Halfmaester, Septa Lemore, Duckfield, Ysilla and Yandry.  

If this is Illyrio's keepsake of fAegon; he commissioned the statue himself and tells people its a statue of himself, rather than fAegon.

The symbolism of the cherry tree is interesting;

 

 

If the statue is really young Griff, then that is even more Northern imagery surrounding him. He's protected by trees, but they have not yet bloomed as their branches are still bare. Cherry blossoms are usually pink, a combination of red and white, though some species' blossoms are white with a red center.

[LynnS]

30 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

If the statue is really young Griff, then that is even more Northern imagery surrounding him. He's protected by trees, but they have not yet bloomed as their branches are still bare. Cherry blossoms are usually pink, a combination of red and white, though some species' blossoms are white with a red center.

That's an interesting factoid.  It would also mean that we know something about young Griff... that he has blonde hair and dark blue eyes that look purple under certain light and that he is 15 or 16 years old. 

[The Fattest Leech]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

I wonder if this is actually a statue of young Griff given Illyrio's sentimentality when Tyrion is handed off to Duckfield.  The chest of boy's clothing could imply that fAegon lived at Illyrion's manse for a while.  The six cherry trees standing sentinel around the statue corresponding to his six guardians: Connington, Haldon Halfmaester, Septa Lemore, Duckfield, Ysilla and Yandry.  

If this is Illyrio's keepsake of fAegon; he commissioned the statue himself and tells people its a statue of himself, rather than fAegon.

The symbolism of the cherry tree is interesting;

 

 

I agree with LynnS here. I always thought, well, after I became a follower of the Aegon Blackfyre cult, that this could have been Illyrio as a youth, but what the bigger clue it gives seems the important part. That and the clothes which Tyrion is given that belong to a younger boy. While those clothes could have been from Viserys, I don't think all of the details and timeline stuff works out to be so.

The cherry tree thing is great. Especially the six sentinels!!! I had all but forgotten that detail. I think this pic does justice to the cherry sentinels.

Another thing with cherry trees is the idea of cherry-picking, while it does mean to select just the juiciest bits to make a false fact seem plausible, it also means to pick the best of something. For instance, a bitchin' camaro would be considered "cherry". Varys's epilogue speech, to me, reinforces the "cherry picked" aspect of Aegon:

A Dance with Dragons - Epilogue

"Aegon?" For a moment he did not understand. Then he remembered. A babe swaddled in a crimson cloak, the cloth stained with his blood and brains. "Dead. He's dead."

"No." The eunuch's voice seemed deeper. "He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them."

By the way, when Aegon and Dany meet, are they going to serve fruit salad at the wedding shower?

2 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

~~~~

Aren't cherry trees an American symbol? I think maybe IIRC George Washington fucked a cherry tree - 9 months later America was born

Let's not forget the documentary that was made several years ago that showed us how it was done.... enjoy.

[Lollygag]

37 minutes ago, LynnS said:

That's an interesting factoid.  It would also mean that we know something about young Griff... that he has blonde hair and dark blue eyes that look purple under certain light and that he is 15 or 16 years old. 

Sorry, just getting to my first cup of coffee. Not following how your point in regards to your second sentence.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

20 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Quote

“So he did. I met him not long after he arrived, one step ahead of the slavers. By day he slept in the sewers, by night he prowled the rooftops like a cat. I was near as poor, a bravo in soiled silks, living by my blade. Perhaps you chanced to glimpse the statue by my pool? Pytho Malanon carved that when I was six-and-ten

- Tyrion II, ADWD

How is it Illyrio? You were a very poor young selling your sword to eat but nonetheless you were able to commission a fine artwork from an (apparently) famous artist?

Who says Illyrio commissioned that sculpture? Maybe it was the other way around: the sculptor hired the dirt-poor kid as model. A few years later, an older, richer Illyrio tracked down the sculpture and bought it.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

Sorry, just getting to my first cup of coffee. Not following how your point in regards to your second sentence.

Aegon hides the color of his hair by coloring it blue. The statue is of a blond haired boy and Tyrion notes Griff's eye color as dark blue/purple. Tyrion thinks the statue is a boy of 15 or 16 and makes the same assessment of young Griff. Tyrion describes the statue of the boy as lithe and handsome and he describes Griff as lithe and well made.  

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Let's not forget the documentary that was made several years ago that showed us how it was done.... enjoy.

Bear Grylls has something to say

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

One problem with the "statue is Aegon" idea is that it means that the sculptor had to have seen Aegon relatively recently if it's Aegon as a 15/16-yr old. So what, they poleboated upriver near Pentos, Aegon visits Pentos, poses for a statue - however long that takes - and then heads back to the riverboat where he waits for Tyrion?

I think if it's a clue regarding Aegon, it's a clue towards Illyrio's fatherhood of same. But I rather think that Illyrio's backstory is bullshit.

[The Fattest Leech]

17 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Bear Grylls has something to say

A familiar tinge????

16 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

One problem with the "statue is Aegon" idea is that it means that the sculptor had to have seen Aegon relatively recently if it's Aegon as a 15/16-yr old. So what, they poleboated upriver near Pentos, Aegon visits Pentos, poses for a statue - however long that takes - and then heads back to the riverboat where he waits for Tyrion?

I think if it's a clue regarding Aegon, it's a clue towards Illyrio's fatherhood of same. But I rather think that Illyrio's backstory is bullshit.

I can totally buy Illyrio's backstory as bullshit, just like I think it is quite possible that Varys and Illyrio have secrets they have kept from each other.

Either way, George has a real fetish for statues and game pieces in most of his stories and this probably comes from his real world love of chess and his own collection and fascination with miniatures.