Why didn't Ned think of fostering Arya with the Mormonts?

[Angel Eyes]

When Ned was trying to figure out what to do with the tomboyish Arya, why didn't he think of having her fostered with the Mormonts, who have a history of warrior women? Did he not intend for her to learn how to fight? Are the Mormonts on a low social standing? Or are they on Ned's shit list after Jorah sold poachers?

[Euron III Greyjoy]

11 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

When Ned was trying to figure out what to do with the tomboyish Arya, why didn't he think of having her fostered with the Mormonts, who have a history of warrior women? Did he not intend for her to learn how to fight? Are the Mormonts on a low social standing? Or are they on Ned's shit list after Jorah sold poachers?

I imagine Catelyn forbid it. Outside of Dorne most southerners don't really understand the whole 'women warrior' thing. She was so focused on trying to make Arya the perfect lady that she didn't understand all she was doing was making her miserable. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

46 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

When Ned was trying to figure out what to do with the tomboyish Arya, why didn't he think of having her fostered with the Mormonts, who have a history of warrior women? Did he not intend for her to learn how to fight? Are the Mormonts on a low social standing? Or are they on Ned's shit list after Jorah sold poachers?

Mormonts would rank on the lower side of Northern nobility, I'd guess.

But Ned would absolutely not honor a house with that wardship given what Jorah did

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

When Ned was trying to figure out what to do with the tomboyish Arya, why didn't he think of having her fostered with the Mormonts, who have a history of warrior women? Did he not intend for her to learn how to fight? Are the Mormonts on a low social standing? Or are they on Ned's shit list after Jorah sold poachers?

I guess the same reason why he didn't send Jon or Robb to foster with any other house. I DON'T KNOW.

[Varysblackfyre321]

Dude, he's not progressive, he humours Arya's little fad at being a tomboy but he fully expects her to fufil her societal when the time comes. Having her in the presence of women of those of house Mormont would only "confuse" her.  Also The mormonts are of low rank and are sitting ducks to Ironborn and wildling raids(many women have been kidnapped and raped by each). I mean honestly there'd real chance of Ned getting a letter of the wildlings or Ironborn having stolen her and made her into one of their wives.

1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

 

But Ned would absolutely not honor a house with that wardship given what Jorah did

I think Ned would be one to look past that embarrassing incident and give Mormont honor if they deserved it.

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Dude, he's not progressive, he humours Arya's little fad at being a tomboy but he fully expects her to fufil her societal when the time comes. Having her in the presence of women of those of house Mormont would only "confuse" her.  Also The mormonts are of low rank and are sitting ducks to Ironborn and wildling raids(many women have been kidnapped and raped by each). I mean honestly there'd real chance of Ned getting a letter of the wildlings or Ironborn having stolen her and made her into one of their wives.

I think Ned would be one to look past that embarrassing incident and give Mormont honor if they deserved it.

 

Why would the Mormonts deserve the honor of fostering a daughter of their Lord?

[shameeka]

I think it is Tully influence. When Jon Arryn wanted to foster Robert in Dragonstone or Casterly Rock, Lysa was adamant that no one was going to take her boy away from her. Catelyn's reaction to Ned deciding to take Sansa, Arya and Bran to King's Landing was similar, although far less drastic than her sister and in the end she came to terms with it. Catelyn, Lysa and Edmure all grew up in Riverrun and have never been fostered somewhere else. Maybe Tully's tradition is to have children grow up in their own home.

 

Another reason is that Arya is a girl. I may be remembering wrong but there seem to be less cases of daughters being fostered in another house than sons. Sansa went to Kings Landing to marry Joffrey and Myrcella went to Dorne to mary Trystane. Fostering noble ladies happen mostly when she is going to be future daughter-in-law.

[Bernie Mac]

3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

When Ned was trying to figure out what to do with the tomboyish Arya, why didn't he think of having her fostered with the Mormonts, who have a history of warrior women? 

Because he did not want to encourage that aspect of her, he expected her to one day marry and act as most noble women would. 

 

3 hours ago, EloImFizzy said:

I imagine Catelyn forbid it. Outside of Dorne most southerners don't really understand the whole 'women warrior' thing. She was so focused on trying to make Arya the perfect lady that she didn't understand all she was doing was making her miserable. 

Let's not blame it all on Cat, a popular past time on these boards.

Arya cocked her head to one side. "Can I be a king's councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?"

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."

Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." She folded up her right leg and resumed her balancing. Ned sighed and left her there.

 

 

Ned is always going to have wanted his daughters to grow up 'normal', he'd not want Arya to become an old maid or worse still a 'freak' like Brienne. For Ned to think differently would make him an anomaly in their society. We rightly view it is misogynistic but to them it is the norm, it would be alien for them to think differently. 

 

Also I think people are missing the point of the women of Bear Island, them learning to fight is a necessity due to them being vulnerable  to the ironborn and the men away fishing. That is not what Ned would want for his daughter, to be sent to an Island constantly under threat.

 

"We have needed to be. In olden days the ironmen would come raiding in their longboats, or wildlings from the Frozen Shore. The men would be off fishing, like as not. The wives they left behind had to defend themselves and their children, or else be carried off."

 

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Asha smiled back. "Mormont women are all fighters too."

The other woman's smile faded. "What we are is what you made us. On Bear Island every child learns to fear krakens rising from the sea."

[hodorisfaclessman]

2 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

I guess the same reason why he didn't send Jon or Robb to foster with any other house. I DON'T KNOW.

This

My own headcannon is this

We forget how powerful and intimidating ned stark is at books start (the novels are all about different perspectives)

Hes a battle hardened ruler of the north (extra secure as hes well liked by most of his bannermen too) ,his best pal is the king and his wife has relations ruling 2 other regions ! Rumours are he personaly slew one of the greatest knights to ever live  and he has the apparent heir to a 3rd region as hostage !

From that point of view he may bot have felt the same presure to match off his kids with betrothals and wardships to secure his stance as warden of the north!

[Kandrax]

Because girls are supposed to stay in house until marriage.

[zandru]

Are girls even fostered in Westeros? I'm with Kandrax: girls are most likely expected to remain at home until marriage, so they can be closely watched by their parents and don't take the opportunity that fostering would give to, as they say, "explore their sexuality" (in other words, destroy their marriageability, also known as their "maidenheads".)

It's different with boys, who have always throughout history been encouraged to "sow their wild oats" (that is, to impregnate and abandon women while they're "too young to be held responsible"). Boys might also better learn the practice of arms away from the overprotective eyes of Mother. Seeing more of the world is an almost exclusively male privilege, in part because girls might "get ideas" if they learned how other places differed. Imagine Sansa growing up with Myranda, for example.

[Angel Eyes]

12 minutes ago, zandru said:

Are girls even fostered in Westeros? I'm with Kandrax: girls are most likely expected to remain at home until marriage, so they can be closely watched by their parents and don't take the opportunity that fostering would give to, as they say, "explore their sexuality" (in other words, destroy their marriageability, also known as their "maidenheads".)

So why was it considered acceptable for Sansa to be fostered in King’s Landing with Joffrey and Myrcella in Dorne? Placing Sansa with Joffrey was a stupid idea; he just gets something to brutalize.

[zandru]

20 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So why was it considered acceptable for Sansa to be fostered in King’s Landing with Joffrey and Myrcella in Dorne?

Sansa wasn't being "fostered" - she was there with her father, as part of his family. Myrcella was sent to Dorne for her own protection, by Tyrion, not as a formal "fostering."

[Ser Leftwich]

One can't disprove a negative. We don't know what Ned didn't think.

[Faera]

Of all the families Ned could send Arya to, the Mormonts would be low on the list precisely because of their culture and non-traditional female roles, never mind Jorah's disgrace. It sends the wrong message to his other vassals. This is not a behaviour Ned would have wanted to encourage once Arya grew up. Teaching her to defend herself is a far-cry from condoning her as some sort of warrior. If Ned were to foster either Arya or Sansa with anyone, it would likely have been as part of a marriage deal. To send a son to be fostered elsewhere is to leave them in the care of is to hand them over pretty much until they reach the age of majority. With a girl, you are pretty much handing her over for an arranged marriage.

Even if Ned were to arrange for them to simply gave a position under the wing of a Great House, likely under the wing of a Lady in her own right, without the notion of marriage on the mind Ned simply doesn't seem to have had much interest in fostering his children elsewhere.  The fact that he did not foster Robb or even Jon (who Cat wanted him to send away) suggests that Ned didn't want to do it or had no clear intentions of doing it.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

It doesn't seem like Ned was interested in splitting up his family and children and I think that may have had a lot to do with the way he lost his siblings and his father. It just feels like he wanted to keep everyone at Winterfell because it was the safest place they could be. 

[Nevets]

Arya is expected to marry, bind two families together, have children, and probably run her castle.  Personally defending herself isn't on the agenda.  Bear Island is isolated and dangerous, thus not a good choice for fostering.  Also, they don't have any boys to be potential husbands, either.  Btw, at her age, sexual activity is likely not a concern,though it certainly could be later on.  Ned's taking her to KL was in part because he needed to make her suitable to find a husband, and to be able to examine potential suitors.

Ned is allowing her to learn sword-fighting to keep her quiet, and as a quid pro quo for her continued good behavior.  Thus her apology to Sansa for ruining her dress during a fight.  She'd  broken her agreement, and was sorry.  But even after she started learning to fight, Ned was still a traditionalist, as evidenced by his conversation with her on the stairs, where he told her she would marry a king, and have his children, rule his castle, etc., and not be a king's councilor or the like, as Bran might.

It is worth noting that George has himself admitted that Winterfell itself would likely be a place where children would be fostered, and there would likely be vassals' children as companions for all the Stark children.  He somewhat remedied this mistake with his description of the Tyrell family.

[John Suburbs]

3 hours ago, zandru said:

Are girls even fostered in Westeros? I'm with Kandrax: girls are most likely expected to remain at home until marriage, so they can be closely watched by their parents and don't take the opportunity that fostering would give to, as they say, "explore their sexuality" (in other words, destroy their marriageability, also known as their "maidenheads".)

It's different with boys, who have always throughout history been encouraged to "sow their wild oats" (that is, to impregnate and abandon women while they're "too young to be held responsible"). Boys might also better learn the practice of arms away from the overprotective eyes of Mother. Seeing more of the world is an almost exclusively male privilege, in part because girls might "get ideas" if they learned how other places differed. Imagine Sansa growing up with Myranda, for example.

No, girls were fostered as well -- but probably not as young as Arya. They usually went in their teens to become handmaids and ladies-in-waiting to queens or higher-rank ladies. Margaery had a number of them: Megga, Alla, Elinor, plus several others. At 14, Joanna Lannister became LiW for Rhaella Targ

[zandru]

4 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

They usually went in their teens to become handmaids and ladies-in-waiting

Thanks for the reminder! Somehow, I didn't think of that as "fostering." But I guess everything would be done differently with that "other" species, females!

[Universal Sword Donor]

52 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

No, girls were fostered as well -- but probably not as young as Arya. They usually went in their teens to become handmaids and ladies-in-waiting to queens or higher-rank ladies. Margaery had a number of them: Megga, Alla, Elinor, plus several others. At 14, Joanna Lannister became LiW for Rhaella Targ

Jaime asked Bracken for one of his daughters as well. I don't remember how old they were but I don't believe they were as old as Marg's cousins.