Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Chad Vader]

I think, Dinkelage for instance, doesnt understand how great a character Tyrion is/will be because hasnt read (and reread) ASOIAF like most of us here. For people like him and other cast who defend season 8 its because they dont know what they are defending against.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Also, him throwing in “white” is just a cynical way to signal that he’s one of the “good guys.” Celebrities always do this. A few years ago it was feminism, before that it was gay marriage, a few years from now it’ll be something else. I can’t tell if any of these people actually believe in anything. One of the great Twitter moments from earlier this year was when Donald Glover tweeted that TV is boring now because “everyone’s afraid of getting canceled.” He was, predictably, dragged for this.

[HoodedCrow]

I’m not sure that grey characters work well on T.V. Black and White thinking is a problem for the books, too! I didn’t like the whitewashing of Cersei, Tyrion or Jon.

[SeanF]

I won't deny that I like Daenerys a lot as a book character.  I had more mixed views about the show.  I liked her for about three and a half seasons, found her increasingly cold and arrogant for the next three and a half, but actually finished Season 8 a lot more sympathetic to her than I started the season, because I found her vilification so unfair and unearned.  You aren't paranoid when you're surrounded by people who treat you like shit.  I doubt if Ding & Dong intended people to react that way.

The Starks came over pretty dreadfully throughout Season 8, basically, early season Lannisters with different hair colour. Again, I'm sure that was not the intention.

I think handled right a Daenerys/Stark final round of conflict could have been done very well.  It would be based upon differing political goals, Northern independence v retaining the united Seven Kingdoms, or Sansa making a bid for supreme power, with the backing of her relatives in the Vale and Riverlands.  Neither side would need to have been vilified, but could be portrayed with equal empathy.  But, it would have needed a season of its own.

[BlackLightning]

On 12/26/2021 at 4:17 PM, SeanF said:

I think handled right a Daenerys/Stark final round of conflict could have been done very well.  It would be based upon differing political goals, Northern independence v retaining the united Seven Kingdoms, or Sansa making a bid for supreme power, with the backing of her relatives in the Vale and Riverlands.  Neither side would need to have been vilified, but could be portrayed with equal empathy.  But, it would have needed a season of its own.

I fully agree

I think that the Targaryen/Stark conflict is something that will happen in the books and it will probably comprise of the last third of A Dream of Spring (if Martin wants to finish this series with only two more books, Dream will have to be monstrous in size...there's no other way)

I think Jon and Daenerys will be married and the Stark and Targaryen families will be united. But cultural and political differences (and maybe some lingering emotional baggage) will drive them far enough apart that someone like Tyrion can get in there and turn them against each other.

And I think it will be a completely organic conflict simply due to how different all of them are. Whereas the Starks can lean on other, Dany is alone and will likely overreact due to Jon's history of intimacy and preference for his cousins.

I think the whole thing will end up a lot like Othello or King Lear where a simple misunderstanding and/or a bout of miscommunication becomes a massive tragedy.

On 12/26/2021 at 4:17 PM, SeanF said:

I won't deny that I like Daenerys a lot as a book character.  I had more mixed views about the show.  I liked her for about three and a half seasons, found her increasingly cold and arrogant for the next three and a half, but actually finished Season 8 a lot more sympathetic to her than I started the season, because I found her vilification so unfair and unearned.

I actually am a little different. I didn't like show Dany much in season 2-4 but I started really liking her again in the second half of season 5.

On 12/26/2021 at 2:47 PM, HoodedCrow said:

I’m not sure that grey characters work well on T.V.

What makes you say that?

Do you think it's an audience thing?

[Darryk]

On 12/26/2021 at 10:47 PM, HoodedCrow said:

I’m not sure that grey characters work well on T.V. 

History would suggest otherwise. Tony Soprano, Walter White....

[HoodedCrow]

Tony is very dark. Then he goes completely dark:) Walter white is black in the end. Perhaps it is more difficult to show grey characters without a lot more work, and it can’t show detailed thoughts. It would be interesting if you could read thoughts with a lot of captions. 

[BlackLightning]

4 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Tony is very dark. Then he goes completely dark:) Walter white is black in the end. Perhaps it is more difficult to show grey characters without a lot more work, and it can’t show detailed thoughts. It would be interesting if you could read thoughts with a lot of captions. 

You mean like a comic book? 

Hahaha no thanks. That would make any show undeniably camp.

On 12/26/2021 at 2:29 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Also, him throwing in “white” is just a cynical way to signal that he’s one of the “good guys.” Celebrities always do this. A few years ago it was feminism, before that it was gay marriage, a few years from now it’ll be something else. I can’t tell if any of these people actually believe in anything. One of the great Twitter moments from earlier this year was when Donald Glover tweeted that TV is boring now because “everyone’s afraid of getting canceled.” He was, predictably, dragged for this.

I hate this culture we live in now. I like how people have become more considerate and thoughtful and more likely to take action when faced with injustice but we've gone waaaaaayyyyyy  too far. I wish people (mainly middle-to-upper class people in the western world) would grow up a bit.

[HoodedCrow]

Yes, seeing thought bubbles like a comic book would be funny, and would be very camp.

[SeanF]

General Kirrigan is a good grey character

[Crona]

Just my 2 cents. I don't think Dinklage meant the other character endings - I think he is referring to Jon and Dany getting together and King & Queen. While, I don't necessarily agree with his words (the show was bad for a while) there are a large amount of people that were upset the ending didn't have Jon/Dany on the throne. 

“No, but the show subverts what you think, and that’s what I love about it. Yeah, it was called Game of Thrones, but at the end, the whole dialogue when people would approach me on the street was, ‘Who’s going to be on the throne?’ I don’t know why that was their takeaway because the show really was more than that.”

[Le Cygne]

On 12/26/2021 at 5:17 PM, SeanF said:

I won't deny that I like Daenerys a lot as a book character.  I had more mixed views about the show.  I liked her for about three and a half seasons, found her increasingly cold and arrogant for the next three and a half, but actually finished Season 8 a lot more sympathetic to her than I started the season, because I found her vilification so unfair and unearned.  You aren't paranoid when you're surrounded by people who treat you like shit.  I doubt if Ding & Dong intended people to react that way.

The Starks came over pretty dreadfully throughout Season 8, basically, early season Lannisters with different hair colour. Again, I'm sure that was not the intention.

I think handled right a Daenerys/Stark final round of conflict could have been done very well.  It would be based upon differing political goals, Northern independence v retaining the united Seven Kingdoms, or Sansa making a bid for supreme power, with the backing of her relatives in the Vale and Riverlands.  Neither side would need to have been vilified, but could be portrayed with equal empathy.  But, it would have needed a season of its own.

I liked Dany in the books from the start, and still do, of course. I liked her well enough in season 1, but even then, they changed some big things in ways that made it clear there was something wrong with them.

It was always like aliens trying to pass as humans wrote the show. Every episode was like the Twilight Zone, they never were able to approximate human beings in the scripts. And the Outside the Episodes were a cosmic joke.

As for Sansa, it's so not like book Sansa (or most people really) to be out for supreme power. They actually thought ASOIAF was all about whose butt was on the throne. Then the ultimate wet fart, Drogon blasted it for no reason.

We look over Jon's shoulder as the fire sweeps toward the throne-- not the target of Drogon's wrath, just a dumb bystander caught up in the conflagration.

Ha ha ha. Even when they have a symbol right in front of them, a symbol of the thing they stupidly reduced the entire series to, they still couldn't use it right. They are so bad at this. They are the dumb bystanders.

[Angel Eyes]

On 1/11/2022 at 7:52 PM, Le Cygne said:

I liked Dany in the books from the start, and still do, of course. I liked her well enough in season 1, but even then, they changed some big things in ways that made it clear there was something wrong with them.

It was always like aliens trying to pass as humans wrote the show. Every episode was like the Twilight Zone, they never were able to approximate human beings in the scripts. And the Outside the Episodes were a cosmic joke.

As for Sansa, it's so not like book Sansa (or most people really) to be out for supreme power. They actually thought ASOIAF was all about whose butt was on the throne. Then the ultimate wet fart, Drogon blasted it for no reason.

We look over Jon's shoulder as the fire sweeps toward the throne-- not the target of Drogon's wrath, just a dumb bystander caught up in the conflagration.

Ha ha ha. Even when they have a symbol right in front of them, a symbol of the thing they stupidly reduced the entire series to, they still couldn't use it right. They are so bad at this. They are the dumb bystanders.

So if Drogon missed and hit the Iron Throne, why didn't he stop breathing fire until Jon was toast?

[The Bard of Banefort]

What’s the real story with D&D and Lucasfilm? I know they gave some official excuse about having too many projects or something like that, but has anyone here done any sleuthing about what really went down? The obvious answer is “Season 8 sucked” but I mean more if they were worried about negative publicity, the quality of the movies, etc.

[Apoplexy]

5 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So if Drogon missed and hit the Iron Throne, why didn't he stop breathing fire until Jon was toast?

I think Drogon was just supposed to be angry and bewildered at Dany's death and he unleashed fire in a random direction. Jon wasn't his target, Drogon was just wailing and venting. And the iron throne wasn't Dogon's target either, 'just a dumb bystander'. 

So it doesn't matter which way you look at it, it's plain idiotic.

[The Bard of Banefort]

5 hours ago, EggBlue said:

not exactly rant and rave... but I just watched MCU's Eternals and now I think we should take it easy on D&D...... at least they gave us 4 great seasons+ 1 alright one in season 6+ 1 fanservice in season 7  that if not faithful to the books, at least worked properly for the TV audience:/ 

Eternals was that bad, huh?

[EggBlue]

7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Eternals was that bad, huh?

you know how there is inconsistency of timeline in GoT in different seasons? there's that issue in Eternals in a movie and much more than in GoT... and that's the least of the problems ,I'm afraid to say...

[Darryk]

23 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So if Drogon missed and hit the Iron Throne, why didn't he stop breathing fire until Jon was toast?

 

18 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

I think Drogon was just supposed to be angry and bewildered at Dany's death and he unleashed fire in a random direction. Jon wasn't his target, Drogon was just wailing and venting. And the iron throne wasn't Dogon's target either, 'just a dumb bystander'. 

So it doesn't matter which way you look at it, it's plain idiotic.

AS far as I remember they gave contradicting explanations for this, in the script it says "just a dumb bystander", in the behind the scenes commentary they say that "if Dany's not gonna have the throne, no one will"

[Angel Eyes]

2 hours ago, Darryk said:

 

AS far as I remember they gave contradicting explanations for this, in the script it says "just a dumb bystander", in the behind the scenes commentary they say that "if Dany's not gonna have the throne, no one will"

True; they forget their own stories at times as well.

[SeanF]

22 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

What’s the real story with D&D and Lucasfilm? I know they gave some official excuse about having too many projects or something like that, but has anyone here done any sleuthing about what really went down? The obvious answer is “Season 8 sucked” but I mean more if they were worried about negative publicity, the quality of the movies, etc.

My impression is that their performance at the Austin Film Festival was their Gerald Ratner moment.  

(Ratner sold cheap jewellery, and destroyed his brand when he joked to an audience that  it cost about as much as a prawn sandwich and lasted as long).