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[Spoilers] Rant & Rave without Repercussion, Final edition

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7 minutes ago, David Selig said:

That "Great council" scene is a top contender for one of the dumbest in the whole show. Nothing about it made any sense whatsoever. Why are Brienne, Sam and Davos given votes? Why is Tyrion the prisoner given the leading role? Why didn't everyone laugh at Tyrion when he came up with the mindbogglingly stupid justification for making Bran the king "Stories are the most important thing and he has the best story, so he'd be the best king"? Why didn't Yara say "I don't give a damn about your King, the Iron Islands are independent now"? Who the hell were some of the people at this council? Why did Sam have a plastic water bottle next to his chair? So many questions...

Oh don't you know? Because that's grim reality, its not Disney :rofl:

You don't need to have all these questions dear, what you just watched is laughable epic crap. It still has a connection to reality though: s**t happens!

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The solemn gathering of the "great lords and ladies of Westeros" was impressive, wasn't it.

Starks comprised, what, 30% of the assembly? And they were gathered in the first place to...decide Tyrion's fate, I suppose. Cool.

The rules are different for Bran, of course, but it seems odd that he would choose that specific moment to reveal that he knew all along how this would resolve. Reasonable people might inquire whether he also knew hundreds of thousands of innocents would burn so he could be king.

Reasonable people might also light his wheelchair on fire, roll it toward the Blackwater, and at least TRY to sit Jon on the throne. You remember Jon, the lovable doofus whose STORY includes a freaking RESURRECTION and KILLING the woman responsible for all those CHARRED CORPSES just offscreen thus DELIVERING Planetos from more of the same...in spite of appearing to love said woman. Who, we're told, may have oh so recently and rapidly gone nuts in no small part because it was JUST SO DAMNED OBVIOUS that everyone wanted him on the throne, not her.

But fuck Jon, am I right? Sansa never liked him anyway.

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2 minutes ago, One-Eyed Raven said:

The solemn gathering of the "great lords and ladies of Westeros" was impressive, wasn't it.

Starks comprised, what, 30% of the assembly? And they were gathered in the first place to...decide Tyrion's fate, I suppose. Cool.

The rules are different for Bran, of course, but it seems odd that he would choose that specific moment to reveal that he knew all along how this would resolve. Reasonable people might inquire whether he also knew hundreds of thousands of innocents would burn so he could be king.

Reasonable people might also light his wheelchair on fire, roll it toward the Blackwater, and at least TRY to sit Jon on the throne. You remember Jon, the lovable doofus whose STORY includes a freaking RESURRECTION and KILLING the woman responsible for all those CHARRED CORPSES just offscreen thus DELIVERING Planetos from more of the same...in spite of appearing to love said woman. Who, we're told, may have oh so recently and rapidly gone nuts in no small part because it was JUST SO DAMNED OBVIOUS that everyone wanted him on the throne, not her.

But fuck Jon, am I right? Sansa never liked him anyway.

 

pretty much this.

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Posted (edited)

Here's the problem with everyone arguing that Dany was always evil:

It's not foreshadowing or character development if it was done both ways and then the audience is asked to selectively justify the outcome. This is the equivalent to drawing a target after you've fired your shot.

Let me illustrate with an exercise: Imagine  it had turned out the other way, and Dany ended up on the Iron Throne as the "people's queen". Could you look back on her actions through the show and come up with a similar collection of evidence in favor of this outcome too?

If you're being honest the answer is yes. They foreshadowed "both" outcomes then flipped a coin at the end and made her nonsensically 100% evil. 

That is not the same thing as saying the evidence was always there. If you wanted to play it either/or, you can't pivot so hard and suddenly at the end. You needed to show a logical descent. OR if you wanted it always to be the one outcome, you need to set it up so that looking back it couldn't have been any other way.

Edited by iprayiam

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19 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Do we even know who all was there?

What was the Prince of Dorne's name. Who were the other guys?

The fact that the Iron Islands aren't independent even though that was the whole point of Daenerys and Yara's alliance...

This is one the points no one is discussing and it just makes no sense at all (yay another one!).

The whole point of the Greyjoy-Dany alliance was ships for independence.

And what does Yara (to not be confused with Asha) do once in Westeros? "muh queen", "in the name of the queen" when the point was that she WAS an independent queen of the Iron Islands, just allied to Dany.

It's like the show sorta forgot the plot they created (insert memes).

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, gorkem said:

Ok this was funny. Where is the real episode?

:rofl:

9 minutes ago, iprayiam said:

Here's the problem with everyone arguing that Dany was always evil:

It's not foreshadowing or character development if it was done both ways and then the audience is asked to selectively justify the outcome. This is the equivalent to drawing a target after you've fired your shot.

Let me illustrate with an exercise: Imagine  it had turned out the other way, and Dany ended up on the Iron Throne as the "people's queen". Could you look back on her actions through the show and come up with a similar collection of evidence in favor of this outcome too?

If you're being honest the answer is yes. They foreshadowed "both" outcomes then flipped a coin at the end and made her nonsensically 100% evil. 

That is not the same thing as saying the evidence was always there. If you wanted to play it either/or, you can pivot so hard and suddenly at the end. You needed to show a logical descent. OR if you wanted it always to be the one outcome, you need to set it up so that looking back it couldn't have been any other way.

I agree completely. And it’s all on David and Dan, on their love of awesome twists ridiculous asspulls and their ever-increasing reliance on “shock”, at the expense of telling a fucking story. Hacks. 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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Posted (edited)

One episode I’m away and they call Bran Your Grace! Pfff! Has anyone watched him dancing?

As for the episode itself, Mel Brooks could not have done a better job.

Edited by hewman

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Posted (edited)

D&D: "Well, Grey Worm kind of forgot that Jon Snow can leave the Nights Watch and the Wall through main gate because he has plot armor and it is the last episode of Game of Thrones so nothing bad will happen to him".

Edited by White26

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37 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Another awful line from the episode was when Arya said "I know a killer when I see one" referencing Dany to Jon. Uh, no shit. She just slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people. Everyone knows she's a killer.

If I didn't know I was watching Game of Thrones, I would have guessed that was a line from Airplane or Naked Gun.

If only someone had said Don't call me Shirley, there might have been one good scene.

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I keep hearing a lot of people saying that GOT would have ended better if it hadn't been so "rushed"? Really? Rushed? There was enough filler in the last two seasons that if you actually cut it all out there would have probably have been about five episodes. Problem was with no books to lean on there just wasn't enough material and we all {the book reader snobs at least} knew that the D{umbasse}s couldn't write actually story content so we got 13 episodes of shit that wasn't rushed, but just that, pure shit!

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Writing something this bad is an achievement. It is really.

Bronn becomes the lord of one of the most important houses and everyone accepts it. Sansa decides that the north should be free and everyone accepts it. Arya suddenly decides that she should be an explorer.

They could have done like this. Tyrion says the same things to Jon. Jon goes to Dany as he did but this time he can't kill her. So he tries to leave but Dany tries to stop him. When he says that "he will leave her" or something she tries to kill him but Drogon doesn't obey her so he leaves. Dany sends messengers to throughout the Westeros and demands that everyone should bend the knee. Nearly everyone does except the Starks and the north. Dany decides to attack north, she starts to ready his army. At this point, Arya decides that she should kill her but while trying she dies. Because of this, Jon decides that he should kill Dany. So, Jon goes and kills Dany. Drogon burns the throne and the same things happen. Except for stupid Bran thing. Every kingdom declares its independence. Bran goes to the north to love a tree or something.

Or this is even better. Night king destroys the wall and kills everyone. Except for Drogon, Ghost, and Nymeria. Drogon takes them to a safe place. Then they have hundreds of good bois and girls.

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Posted (edited)

I'm still fuming over this shite. Building Dany up over all this time only to turn her into comic book villain of the month in a mere two episodes. Eff the hell off. Building up Jon all these years to just send him packing back up into obscurity. Eff that.

And Tyrion....Did Tyrion kill his Dad for sacking Kings Landing? For the dead Baby-Targs? For the Red Wedding? No, he killed him because he treated him like crap and was shagging his girlfriend the whole time. It seems to me Tyrion would have been hunky-dory with everything his father did if Tywin treated him well, so just eff-off with the whole hoity-toity modern morality speeches. 

-Where the futz did all this modern morality come from anyway...and all out of the mouths of killers themselves? Good grief! The only thing I got a kick out of this whole episode was the Lords all laughing off democracy, lol.

-Yara Greyjoy, an ultra-tough, fearless leader and warrior getting shushed off with a threat by little Ms fanservice Jedi-Ninja. And then just sitting quietly by while the North asserts their freedom when the Iron-Born of have been fighting for theirs the whole time. Same for Bowed, Bent and Broken Dorn. Groan.

-Bran does nothing but get his friends sacrificed, sit around saying weird things, doing nothing to help out and then gets elected King for his troubles. Tywin, Cersei, Little-Finger, Olleena Tyrell, Varys.....buncha posers. Bran 'Thug-Life' Stark was the real gangsta the whole time. 

I was able to live with some of the misdirection used in the story, but this has been too much. The whole R+L=J thing. Irrelevant. Pointless. Same with Azor Ahai, TPtwP. All of Dany's growth, resilience and triumphing over adversity...irrelevant. Two episodes and she's doing the ol' man proud and then killed and brushed off with no other consequences save for a bit of pouting from Grey Worm and Yara. W-T-F???

What worries me is that this is merely just the clunky version of where GRRM wants to go with the story. It's always struck me that GRRM has a whole lot to wrap up in two books, but now we have to add turning Dany into Darth Daenerys, and the rise and fall of Jon Aegon Snow Targaryen. I just feel ill inside. I feel annoyed at myself for being conned by all of this and wish I could forget it all.

Seeing the unceremonious end of the Targaryens and their whole mythology has made me lose all interest in anything more from GRRM tbh. My wife, a far more casual fan (as in she doesn't marinate in this stuff) brought up a good point too; "why should anyone trust the show creators or GRRM now with any of their new spin-offs?" Now that we know that we know how much they can and love to fuck with the audiences hopes! Why should we care about the story of Bran the Builder fighting the first WWs when we know that all he'll need is a Super-Ninja? As for anything about the Targaryens...well, they're just one big long tragedy that come to a very unsatisfying end, so at least there people will know what they're getting into.

-

Edited by Blackfyres R Legit

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13 hours ago, darksellsword said:

when you turn the hero of the story into Hitler on a dragon within two episodes.

She has never been the hero of the story. 

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1 minute ago, SandorRogaine said:

She has never been the hero of the story. 

That's  subjective, but thanks for sharing

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, BrianCizMe said:

I keep hearing a lot of people saying that GOT would have ended better if it hadn't been so "rushed"? Really? Rushed? There was enough filler in the last two seasons that if you actually cut it all out there would have probably have been about five episodes. Problem was with no books to lean on there just wasn't enough material and we all {the book reader snobs at least} knew that the D{umbasse}s couldn't write actually story content so we got 13 episodes of shit that wasn't rushed, but just that, pure shit!

Problem was that they focused heavily on Dany's arc that the world of GOT turned smaller and smaller. It was easier for them to develop one arc and expand it, get the audience engaged into it and then aim for the big surprise (twist). 

In the books Dany is not a big investment, there are much more characters around her, far more stories and heroes and she doesn't carry the whole weight. You suddenly see why GM was saying there was enough material to do more seasons.

 

Edited by Nightwish

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The good:

  • We got rid of Daenerys fairly quickly
  • No romances (that seriously was a pleasant surprise)
  • Brienne's honors to Jaime
  • Jon finally petting Ghost
  • My pet fav character (Sansa) got a pleasant ending

The usual:

  • We got rid of Daenerys in a very underwhelming way. Tyrion: 'Lol, bro, she's dangerous. And she will hurt your sisters.' Jon: 'Say no more bro'.
  • No political tensions
  • Filler, unnecessary prolonging half of the scenes for cheap drama
  • God, that was boring
  • Really boring
  • Geez, we get it, Edmure is no alpha. But does he have to make an idiot of himself everytime he speaks? Have some subtlety, show.
  • Grey Worm
  • Bronn
  • Plot repetition for Jon and Tyrion
  • Dress some southern looking guy flashy, don't name him, don't let him speak: the recipe for a Prince of Dorne (weren't 'wasn't the 'weak men's rule' supposed to be over, btw?)
  • The king choice was super random. Was that what he had Bran hibernated for so long for? Underwhelming.

I'm glad it's over.

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21 minutes ago, Blackfyres R Legit said:

he only thing I got a kick out of this whole episode was the Lords all laughing off democracy, lol.

Ah, forgot that one. Yep, belongs to hte good.

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Cersei's & Jaime's deaths are even worse when you realize they could have survived if only they weren't standing in that spot.

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