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I did not see anyone disscusing this, probably because I wasn't checking this forum recently.

Gorge wrote on his blog:

Quote

...the readers will learn what happened to Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet.   And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort…

What did he mean by calling him Aegon VI? Is this a confirmation that fAegon will take the Iron Throne? Does it have any meaning at all?

Perhaps I'm just thirsty for his work that I take everything too seriously, as we all do, but by calling him Aegon VI GRRM really made me wonder. I want to know what you guys think. 

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I made a case in the thread on George's blog post that this is indeed a spoiler, either to Aegon officially becoming a pretender to the Iron Throne and being thus called 'King Aegon VI Targaryen' by his own followers and sycophants (which isn't the case yet, they still style him 'prince' and only made plans for him to wash his hair and declare himself after they had taken Storm's End) or that he is actually going to sit the Iron Throne as the crowned and anointed King Aegon VI Targaryen.

My gut feeling is that the latter is likely since I doubt Aegon is going to be as hasty as to have some sort of preliminary coronation at Storm's End. I expect him to indeed wash his hair there and write a lot of lot letters to the noble houses of the Realm to declare who he is and what he intends to do, but I doubt he will already proclaim himself king and thus put himself into a position where he will have to demand fealty of his 'leal lords and ladies'. Instead, I think he'll continue to style himself prince until KL is taken and the High Septon himself can crown and anoint him King Aegon VI - in front a cheering crowd, of course.

We can be reasonably sure now that Aegon is not going to die during the attack on Storm's End, at least ;-). Which was never a particularly likely scenario.

In any case, the spoiler quality of that reference can best be tested by asking oneself whether it is particularly likely that Aegon is going to die the mere prince he is right now still in ADwD and the sample chapters if George himself refers to him as 'Aegon VI'. And I very much doubt that the intention behind that numeral is to give the implication that Aegon is not going to get proper pretender and/or proper monarch status.

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Yes, it is almost certain that he will sit on the Iron Throne. Remember also that one of the visions Dany has in Quarth is of people cheering in King's Landing, waving mummer dragon's flags.

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Well I think he’s real so I think it’s just one of the characters we will know about.

the more interesting one was Darkstar...oh boy what is he going to do

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Posted (edited)

Stannis wasn't anointed by High Septon, and neither was Dany, or Robb, or Renly, or any other out of Five Kings, nevertheless they called themselves Kings/Queen. In The Mystery Knight novel John the Fiddler, who was actually son of Daemon Blackfyre, was referred to by his people as King Daemon II Blackfyre. So fAegon's people are going to present him to citizens of 7K as King Aegon VI.

In my opinion, fAegon is a secret Blackfyre, thus his invasion into Westeros is actually the Sixth Blackfyre Rebellion (the War of the Ninepenny Kings was the fifth). Also I think that fAegon and Golden Company are GRRM's parallel to Biblical Antichrist, the Beast out of the Sea. Six Blackfyre Rebellions, Aegon the Sixth, so there's supposed to be one more Six, to form Biblical number of the Beast. In my opinion, most likely, out of 7K of Westeros, Six Kingdoms, excluding The North, will submit to fAegon.

fAegon could also be a parallel to Biblical King from the South [edit to this below], while Stannis is a parallel to King from the North (in the Bible Northern King was called stern-faced -> "In the last days of those kingdoms, when rebellions are finished, a stern-looking king who understands mysterious things will rise to power." Daniel 8:23; AGOT, Eddard VI - "Stannis was a different sort of man; a bare year younger than the king, yet utterly unlike him, stern, humorless, unforgiving, grim in his sense of duty.")

And this could mean, that there will be an epidemy of greyscale amongst followers of fAegon - "And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." - Revelation 16:2.

fAegon is the Beast, and Littlefinger is his False Prophet. In the Bible the False Prophet said to people to make an image of the Beast, and to worship it. And Littlefinger was secretly gathering Targaryen tapestries, to use them later, when he will be persuading people of 7K to follow King Aegon VI (and will offer to fAegon a marriage with Sansa, that's the real reason, why LF is keeping her with him, to use her as a bargaining chip).

Based on description of the False Prophet in the Bible (dragon's voice, lamb's horns), I think that Littlefinger is a descendant of Aegon IV Targaryen and Falena Stokeworth (there's a lamb on their House's banner), and is bloodrelated to House Whent, who are also descendants of Aegon and Falena (thru the Bastard of Harrenhal, who was either son of Aegon and Falena, or a child of Aegon and daughter of Aegon and Falena - Jeyne Lothston). If my guess is correct, then Littlefinger and Catelyn Tully are third cousins, and all of Catelyn's children have a bit of dragonblood (approximately 1/32, about the same amount as Brown Ben Plumm).

And some time after fAegon will fight against Stannis (because in the Bible, prior arrival of the rightful King, Jesus, the King from the South and the King from the North were fighting against each other), the dead will rise - "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake" Daniel 12.

And here's what inspired GRRM to create a one-horned "unicorns" - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dan_8_ram_and_he-goat.jpg

it's a picture from the Bible, chapter 8 of the Book of Daniel, in which he described Apocalypse.

If anyone is wondering what ASOIAF and GRRM has to do with the Bible, then you haven't read his stories such as "Call him Moses", and "The Way of Cross and Dragon"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuf_Voyaging#"Call_Him_Moses"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_of_Cross_and_Dragon

Even though those two stories are sci-fi, there's a lot of Biblical elements used in them.

So GRRM, letting slip that little part about Aegon VI, is actually a huge HUGE spoiler, about what to expect in the future books.

And I won't be surprised, if it will turn out later, that the unnatural climate changes on Planetos are caused by terraforming device from Tuf's space-ship (from that story - "Call him Moses"), that thousands years ago crashed on Planetos (that second moon from Dothraki legends, that cracked like an egg, and dragons poured out of it), and that the dragons were also created by Tuf in his lab, like he created cobalcats in "A Beast for Norn" novel. Which means, that events of ASOIAF are happening in GRRM's "Thousand Worlds" universe.

 

Edit: In the Bible both Northern and Southern Kings had daughters, and the King from the South had a subordinate, who became more powerful than his King, and for some time they were in opposition to each other, but later joined forces to fight against the King from the North. So it's looks more likely, that GRRM's parallel to the King from the South is Doran Martell (not fAegon), his subordinate-enemy-ally is Gerold Dayne, the Darkstar.

Edited by Megorova

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I honestly would like for fAegon to conquer King´s Landing, if only so that the books diverge from the show quite a bit. Also, reading through other posts, I really don´t like the idea of greyscale spreading throughout Westeros and taking plenty of characters out of the picture. I hope George can manage the plot well enough without having to resort to epidemics (I mean, why would something like this happen now of all times, and not in the previous centuries of culture exchanges, which we know were more than a few).

I´m saying this mainly because I can´t figure out the plot reasoning behind Jon Connington´s illness, and I now fear it could be so that greyscale gets spread throughout the continent. I´m not much of a fan of using illness as a plot device, but that´s just me. Besides, I´m sure there are thousands of theories out there that can offer more insight into what could this greyscale affair mean in the bigger picture. 

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This isn't a spoiler. After the reveal, Aegon is NEVER presented as anything but the real deal in the books. Some fans believe that Aegon is fake. While they are probably a majority, it is nowhere close to all. People just stop arguing with them because they insist upon interpreting things their own way. Many people also argue that if GRRM never actually reveals Aegon to be fake, then that will mean it remains a "mystery". This statement by GRRM shows that if he doesn't reveal Aegon to be a fake, then he intends the reader to believe that Aegon is precisely who he is represented to be.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, bent branch said:

This isn't a spoiler. After the reveal, Aegon is NEVER presented as anything but the real deal in the books. Some fans believe that Aegon is fake. While they are probably a majority, it is nowhere close to all. People just stop arguing with them because they insist upon interpreting things their own way. Many people also argue that if GRRM never actually reveals Aegon to be fake, then that will mean it remains a "mystery". This statement by GRRM shows that if he doesn't reveal Aegon to be a fake, then he intends the reader to believe that Aegon is precisely who he is represented to be.

There are way too many early book hints to him being fake before he ever appears. The fact that George made a lot of the Blackfyre history and started seeding it into the books right before fAegon shows up is kind of damning. How much clearer can you get from the Black metal dragon that goes into the water and comes back out red with rust. There is not a lot of evidence telling me he is real and almost overwhelming foreshadowing that he's fake.

Edited by Slaver's Dread

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2 minutes ago, Slaver's Dread said:

There are way too many early book hints to him being fake before he ever appears. The fact that George made a lot of the Blackfyre history and started seeding it into the books right before fAegon shows up is kind of damning. How much clearer can you get from the Black metal dragon that goes into the water and comes back out red with rust. There is not a lot of evidence telling me he is real and almost overwhelming foreshadowing that he's fake.

Let me try to state this in another way. At this point in time, GRRM has presented Aegon as the real thing in the books. The hints you think you see may or may not be real. GRRM may or may not in the future reveal Aegon to be a fake, Blackfyre or not. But for GRRM to call Aegon anything but Aegon VI at this time would be the spoiler. 

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3 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Yes, it is almost certain that he will sit on the Iron Throne. Remember also that one of the visions Dany has in Quarth is of people cheering in King's Landing, waving mummer dragon's flags.

The location of that vision is not provided in the text.

I would be disappointed in anyone who didn't understand by now that (team) Aegon is going to be the foremost power in Westeros by the time Dany arrives.

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Posted (edited)

Im still going with Aegon VI real or not, fills the role from the adaptation. Jon is not Aegon or a Targ. He is the son of Mance, and will become King Beyond the Wall. I just cannot see any logic behind redundantly giving Dany two possible Targs to go through the same question of identity with both. Say Jon is a Targ, after dealing with Aegon, Dany will never trust Jon.  As i stated long ago though, Jon is of the North, and will not care for the throne of Westeros. 

Edited by AlaskanSandman
Aegon's number

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I always found it odd how in Agot, when Ned is in the cell and his daughters come up. Varys brings up the innocent who suffer, and tells of the sack of K.L. yet, he fails to mention Aegon being murdered. He stops after Rhaeny's. To a dying man. 

Then come book 5, Aegon tells the story of how Varys saved him. Then, Book 5 ends with Vary's telling the Truth to a dying Lannister. Who isn't going to tell anybody since he's dead. 

I think it's quiet likely Varys is telling the truth. The bigger question to me, is who is Varys. 

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9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I made a case in the thread on George's blog post that this is indeed a spoiler, either to Aegon officially becoming a pretender to the Iron Throne and being thus called 'King Aegon VI Targaryen' by his own followers and sycophants (which isn't the case yet, they still style him 'prince' and only made plans for him to wash his hair and declare himself after they had taken Storm's End) or that he is actually going to sit the Iron Throne as the crowned and anointed King Aegon VI Targaryen.

My gut feeling is that the latter is likely since I doubt Aegon is going to be as hasty as to have some sort of preliminary coronation at Storm's End. I expect him to indeed wash his hair there and write a lot of lot letters to the noble houses of the Realm to declare who he is and what he intends to do, but I doubt he will already proclaim himself king and thus put himself into a position where he will have to demand fealty of his 'leal lords and ladies'. Instead, I think he'll continue to style himself prince until KL is taken and the High Septon himself can crown and anoint him King Aegon VI - in front a cheering crowd, of course.

We can be reasonably sure now that Aegon is not going to die during the attack on Storm's End, at least ;-). Which was never a particularly likely scenario.

In any case, the spoiler quality of that reference can best be tested by asking oneself whether it is particularly likely that Aegon is going to die the mere prince he is right now still in ADwD and the sample chapters if George himself refers to him as 'Aegon VI'. And I very much doubt that the intention behind that numeral is to give the implication that Aegon is not going to get proper pretender and/or proper monarch status.

I mostly agree with your prediction, but I think the reference in the blog was more a little teaser for show fans to hint at what they're missing. 

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10 hours ago, Blooddragon said:

What did he mean by calling him Aegon VI? 

Nothing that we don't know already.  Young Griff laid claim to the title of Aegon VI  when he launched his invasion.  Whether he actually succeeds in parking his ass on the hunk of metal called "the Iron Throne" remains up in the air.    Whether he really is the son of Rhaegar and Elia remains up in the air.

And it may even be that there will be an Aegon VI on the Iron Throne, but it will not be Young Griff.  But GRRM does not intend us to understand him as referring to any such other Aegon VI.  He intends us to understand it as a reference to the Aegon VI we know.

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7 hours ago, bent branch said:

This isn't a spoiler. After the reveal, Aegon is NEVER presented as anything but the real deal in the books. Some fans believe that Aegon is fake. While they are probably a majority, it is nowhere close to all. People just stop arguing with them because they insist upon interpreting things their own way. Many people also argue that if GRRM never actually reveals Aegon to be fake, then that will mean it remains a "mystery". This statement by GRRM shows that if he doesn't reveal Aegon to be a fake, then he intends the reader to believe that Aegon is precisely who he is represented to be.

Young Griff is Baby Aegon in the same sense that Jon Snow is Ned Stark's bastard.  It is simply the current state of the reveal.  It does not rule out future twists.  All theories remain in play.

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He will be proclaimed king soon in the Winds I suppose. I would also like to see him taking King's Landing and I think he will. Daenerys' vision of cloth dragon cheered by crowd may be forshadowing it. Given how the show handled King's Landing and Cersei arc, there are two possibilities. D&D replaced Aegon arc with Cersei, or she will later replace him after his death. Maybe after sack of King's Landing Tommen will die while Cersei hide with Qyburn under the Red Keep? And later Aegon will die in explosion of the Sept of Baelor during his coronation or wedding to Arriane or Margery (second marriage would be fantastic tbh)?

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1 hour ago, Platypus Rex said:

Young Griff is Baby Aegon in the same sense that Jon Snow is Ned Stark's bastard.  It is simply the current state of the reveal.  It does not rule out future twists.  All theories remain in play.

Did I say there couldn't be any future twists? I just re-read what I wrote and I do believe you are putting words in my mouth. I am often accused of getting pissed off because people don't agree with me, but what really pisses me off is how my words are twisted. What I said was that GRRM called Aegon "Aegon VI" because that is how he is being represented in the story at this time. For GRRM to act like he is potentially someone else would be the real spoiler. Whether it is just the current state of the reveal or not has yet to be determined. If GRRM never openly reveals Aegon to be fake, then the current understanding of who he is stands. I actually believe there is some evidence in the text which suggests Aegon is fake. Not the long list of out of context quotes usually cited, but there is some. I think there is enough of a possibility that Aegon is fake that I would never make a bet against it. (Although I think the whole Serra thing is bogus.) It seems to me that it is people who push the Aegon is fake narrative that can't stand any suggestion that it may be wrong.

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13 hours ago, bent branch said:

Let me try to state this in another way. At this point in time, GRRM has presented Aegon as the real thing in the books. The hints you think you see may or may not be real. GRRM may or may not in the future reveal Aegon to be a fake, Blackfyre or not. But for GRRM to call Aegon anything but Aegon VI at this time would be the spoiler. 

Agree completely. I think we differ in our beliefs as to whether Aegon is who he is made out to be or not (i think nay). But this post is no spoiler, its just presenting the character as he exists in the books. Tells us nothing about potential false identities, will he sit the throne etc. 

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8 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I mostly agree with your prediction, but I think the reference in the blog was more a little teaser for show fans to hint at what they're missing. 

Sure. But he could have just as well have written 'Young Griff' or 'Prince Aegon', no? That he did not do this could be a hint that he is a point in the books where calling 'the lad' 'Aegon VI' comes naturally to him because he is already sitting the Iron Throne.

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Aegon VI is not a spoiler, no more than Daemon Blackfyre being known as Daemon, the Second of His Name, is a spoiler. Aegon has appointed a knight to his Kingsguard at the end of ADwD. He considers himself a king, claiming back his rightful throne. That's the style he claims. It doesn't mean anything at all regarding his future or the Iron Throne.

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